first lager...feeling like a noob

I brewed my first lager last night. Everything went well, I aerated it well and got it cooled down to 50°F overnight. I pitched an appropriately sized starter (per mrmalty.com) of wlp833 this morning.

Now...at the risk of sounding noobish (sorry, noobs!)...I just realized that I have NO idea what to expect from this fermentation. Should I expect a long lag? Should I get a big krausen like I do with my ales? How long should a healthy fermentation take? Can I assume since it is fermenting colder than all the other beers I have ever done it will be a less active fermentation? Or will the lager yeast rip through it like an ale yeast would at normal ale temps?

I haven't felt this anxious about a beer in quite some time! I know I should RDWHAHB, etc...and I'm not really that worried about anything...I'm just, well, "concerned". I'm not quite at the "Why isn't my airlock bubbling" stage yet...but I'm close

Never done one.....but am curious to see the answers to your questions as well.

If you pitched the proper sized starter, you should have a primary that lasts about 5-7 days, or very similar to ales, plus a day or two.

Lager yeast are a different strain than ale yeast, and are "bottom fermenting", but even so I normally get a krausen and airlock activity. I'm normally doing a diacetyl rest by day 7 or so.

Yooper said:

If you pitched the proper sized starter, you should have a primary that lasts about 5-7 days, or very similar to ales, plus a day or two.

Lager yeast are a different strain than ale yeast, and are "bottom fermenting", but even so I normally get a krausen and airlock activity. I'm normally doing a diacetyl rest by day 7 or so.

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Awesome. You're the best, Yoop! Thanks.

Yooper said:

If you pitched the proper sized starter, you should have a primary that lasts about 5-7 days, or very similar to ales, plus a day or two.

Lager yeast are a different strain than ale yeast, and are "bottom fermenting", but even so I normally get a krausen and airlock activity. I'm normally doing a diacetyl rest by day 7 or so.

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Hey yooper you are from texas?..Nice!! Stevie ray vaughan baby!!

Just did my first lager this weekend too! Has a nice foamy Krausen on it now, but definitely looks a little tamer than any ale I've done recently.

Not looking forward to the lagering period and having a full keg of beer I can't drink for a few months though.

beerbeerbeer123 said:

Hey yooper you are from texas?..Nice!! Stevie ray vaughan baby!!

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Not from Texas- I just live here in the winter. It's nearly 80 degrees right now, and the windows are wide open and it feels great! We're fishing at the moment but it's slow so I"m online also, while sitting on the deck and watching the ducks swimming under the lights. It's pretty cool!

Stevie Ray Vaughan? Well, he's ok. I'm not really a fan but some of it is alright I guess.

Oh, Jlem, it's recommended to do the diacetyl rest at 75% of the way to FG.

You can guestimate that by seeing when the really active part of fermentation slows, and do it then. Generally you're right in there, at 1.020-1.024 when that happens in my experience (depending on OG and what you're making of course).

Well, my second lager experienced the same stuck fermentation as the first. Right around 1020. The first I underpitched with a 2 l starter but this one I stepped up to an appropriate size and had airlock activity in a few hours. The first kicked back up after I racked to secondary. I almost did the same with his one bit decided to give the yeast a good stir instead... airlock was popping almost immediately and was still going this morning.

My question.... is this characteristic of lager yeast? Both times I had fairly stable temps, within A degree or 2 of 50 for most of the primary. I slowly raised it to 55 after fermentation slowed and 60 when I expected it was within 20% of its fg. When I took a gravity reading there had been no activity for several days and both times i came up short of my fg. Both times the yeast immediately became active when they were agitated. Because lager yeast are bottom fermenters, is the flat bottom of a bucket inhibiting all the yeast from accessing residual sugars in the wort?

Bamsdealer said:

My question.... is this characteristic of lager yeast?

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No, that's not typical at all. It seems quite unusual, actually. Could it be the ingredients in the recipe? Like a less fermentable extract, or a high mash temp?

JLem, I thought I'd chime in too since I like brewing lagers so much. Yooper pretty much summed it up. I think with an appropriate sized starter, pitched at or below ferm temps, you'll not see much activity for about 24 hours, then it'll slowly ramp up to a very tame krausen. I use WLP833 for most of my lagers now, I like the results I get with it. Made a helles with it on January 1, and I have a dunkel going with it now. After about 5 days, the activity will drop off, and it'll probably be finished after 7-8. I usually try to leave mine in the fermenter for about 2 weeks, and then transfer and lager in the keg. I've quit doing d-rests (with my luck this'll probably bite me soon), I've found with 833, with a proper pitch at 45 degrees or so, I don't get any diacetyl.

The first was all pilsner. I abandoned a decoction mash after the first decoction and just rested at 149. Ultimately that finished at 1009. This was 2 row, vienna, a lb of munich and less than a half lb of specialty grains. Single infusion mash at 151. I was expecti g this to read about 1012. Had a keg sanitized and ready to roll. Much to my surprise, the gravity fell well short of where I anticipated... especially with a stepped starter. The first yeast was wlp 800 this was 833 I think.

I tried to correct any mistakes I made with the pilsner.... thats why I so surprised to see a stuck ferment this time too

StoneHands said:

JLem, I thought I'd chime in too since I like brewing lagers so much. Yooper pretty much summed it up. I think with an appropriate sized starter, pitched at or below ferm temps, you'll not see much activity for about 24 hours, then it'll slowly ramp up to a very tame krausen. I use WLP833 for most of my lagers now, I like the results I get with it. Made a helles with it on January 1, and I have a dunkel going with it now. After about 5 days, the activity will drop off, and it'll probably be finished after 7-8. I usually try to leave mine in the fermenter for about 2 weeks, and then transfer and lager in the keg. I've quit doing d-rests (with my luck this'll probably bite me soon), I've found with 833, with a proper pitch at 45 degrees or so, I don't get any diacetyl.

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Thanks, StoneHands...the airlock is bubbling slowly right now. It's been not quite 36 hours since I pitched the yeast. I'd definitely feel better if it was more active....but I'm happy to see something going on. I haven't checked on the krausen...maybe I'll wait another day and see where it is at. Assuming everything progresses OK, I like your plan of 2 weeks in the primary and then lagering in a seondary vessel (I'll use a glass carboy). Before I lager it I will give it a taste to look for diacetyl and decide then if it needs a d-rest. It's fermenting at ~50°F now.

Anyone have experience using gelatin or other finings?

Taste it after 5-6 days for diacetyl. If you're sensitive to it, it'll show up then, I wouldn't wait two weeks to check on it if you feel the need to check at all (it'll be too late if you wait two weeks). The dunkel I have in primary, I was concerned about since I didn't see any surface activity in my carboy after 36 hours or so, I only had the slightest movement in my S-airlock. The surface of the wort/beer was clear, no krausen or anything. I gave it a swirl (one swirl mind you), and the airlock exploded. The next day I had a nice 1" krausen, which is about the most you'll get IMO with a proper temperature lager ferment. If you're seeing something, that's just fine, and I bet it's progressing fine.

I have used gelatin before, but after a month+ of lagering, you probably won't need it. I've used it on some English ales in the past with good results. Never needed it for a lager (yet). Let it lager before thinking about gelatin IMO. Cross that bridge then.