homebrew taste........(where does it come from!)

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malt20

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I know somebody has to know what im talking about. what is the homebrew taste. It's not any type of infection. Ive tasted other old homebrewers beer that doesnt seem to have it and they wont really let their secret out. Kegging seems to have a little less of the homebrew taste. water is fine. I do all grain sparge batching (no extract) and have a freezer i ferment in so the temp isnt all over the place. I am extremely clean and sanitary. Can anybody explain or expand on the subject..........
 
do you taste this in many different homebrews, or only your own homebrew? It could just be a process/ingredient related issue with your setup.
 
i taste it in all of them including my buddies homebrew and others. some people know what im talking about. i dont know if i just have a really sensitive pallet or what. if i make a clone of something and then try the commercial beer right after i can really tell. like i said its not bad, just tastes like homebrew beer. i can run my entire process by if that would help.
 
By Homebrew taste do you mean more "full" bodied or a little heavier?

Since I started brewing all commercial beers taste more watered down than mine. I enjoy the homebrew more than commercial brews now because I lile tje more full bodied taste.
 
There's no secret. It's a matter of narrowing down process steps to make everything ever-more perfect.

A few points)

1: Most breweries have setups that rapidly chill the wort from boil to fermenter. This gives you a good cold break and helps coagulate some of the material which may affect flavor when you package.
2: Commercial breweries oxygenate wort.
3: Commercial breweries pitch enough yeast.
4: Commercial breweries control fermentation temps.
5: Commercial breweries have methods to remove yeast, trub, sediment, and often filter the product before it goes to packaging.

That's a simple list, and obviously there's a lot more that goes into it. Ingredient freshness, the quality control processes that [should] come with a product that you're offering for sale, etc.

But really, brewing is like baking. It's all about process first, second and third. Hone your process. Constantly look for places where you can improve the process, and you'll see that "homebrew taste" magically go away.
 
My guess is you're tasting yeast.

I make 10g batches and keg. I have filtered 5g and not filtered the other 5g and the taste difference was pretty big. I discovered that I really don't like the taste of yeast.
 
Gameface said:
My guess is you're tasting yeast.

I make 10g batches and keg. I have filtered 5g and not filtered the other 5g and the taste difference was pretty big. I discovered that I really don't like the taste of yeast.

Did you calculate the amount of yeast needed before pitching?
I never do but I wonder if the proper amount would help the taste.
 
Did you calculate the amount of yeast needed before pitching?
I never do but I wonder if the proper amount would help the taste.

Yeah, I use BeerSmith to determine how many yeast I need. I have a 5L flask and a stir plate and make pretty large starters. I figure I overshoot the recommended number of yeast most of the time, as I typically make beers in the 1.040 - 1.060 range.

I think pitching plenty of yeast, temp control and filtering out the yeast (as well as producing crystal clear beer) cumulatively has made all the difference in my beer.
 
My guess is you're tasting yeast.

I make 10g batches and keg. I have filtered 5g and not filtered the other 5g and the taste difference was pretty big. I discovered that I really don't like the taste of yeast.

I'll go with this. I filter some beers and the difference in taste (and appearance!) is very noticeable.
 
If it's not a yeasty taste you're experiencing, then you're falling short in some part of your process, because my homebrew just tastes like fresh beer to me. Afterall we do nearly the same process as the big boys do, except on a smaller scale.

I can understand sometimes extract brewers say that their beer's have a "homebrewed" taste which they also call "twang" which may or may not exist, which may be an inherent maillard reaction from already having had the grain boiled to make extract, or metallic from the can if it's liquid , or even a freshness issue.

But except for maybe an excess of yeast (but if you drink commercial bottle conditioned beers, you're getting yeast as well and should be used to it.)

The other question is, what kind of commercial beers do you drink? If your pallet was raised on American Light Lagers/BMC and you're brewing ales then the difference could simple be that Lagers have a cleaner flavor profile, while ales tend to have more flavor complexity, more hops, more yeast character, more complexity in grains that provide a depth of flavor.

The other thing I've noticed that folks who make this complaint are often rushing through the process, and simple not letting the beer condition, be it in the fermenter, or in the bottle or keg long enough.....
 
I drink all different types of beer from dogfish head 60 or 90 to anderson valley, russian river pliney. rougue, greenflash, firestone, sierra, palma louca, stella, all types of belgian beer and on and on. As a bar manager i get to order and try pretty much every type of beer. Plus the local pubs and local breweries.
I take everything as it comes when i brew, never rushing. Usually take 6 hours give or take from start to finish (cleaning included) for my all grain setup. I use a 10 gallon (cylinder cooler) igloo cooler system for mashing and usually do 6 gallon batches so i get 5g by the end of it all. I use an imersion chiller but i feel it takes longer then it should to cool. Like 45 minutes usually. I ferment in buckets, secondary in carboys and use a chest freezer with a johnson thermostat to control the temp. I do 2000 ml starters and oxygenate by high pooring into fermentation bucket. p.s. my fermentations take off like crazy now with the starter so i know its not a lack of yeast or oxygen. (i think.....)
How do you filter the beer? I use whirlfloc tabs to clear it up btw. Cold crash to filter or filter with something else after the wort is cool. Will this really change the taste for the better???
 
I drink all different types of beer from dogfish head 60 or 90 to anderson valley, russian river pliney. rougue, greenflash, firestone, sierra, palma louca, stella, all types of belgian beer and on and on. As a bar manager i get to order and try pretty much every type of beer. Plus the local pubs and local breweries.
I take everything as it comes when i brew, never rushing. Usually take 6 hours give or take from start to finish (cleaning included) for my all grain setup. I use a 10 gallon (cylinder cooler) igloo cooler system for mashing and usually do 6 gallon batches so i get 5g by the end of it all. I use an imersion chiller but i feel it takes longer then it should to cool. Like 45 minutes usually. I ferment in buckets, secondary in carboys and use a chest freezer with a johnson thermostat to control the temp. I do 2000 ml starters and oxygenate by high pooring into fermentation bucket. p.s. my fermentations take off like crazy now with the starter so i know its not a lack of yeast or oxygen. (i think.....)
How do you filter the beer? I use whirlfloc tabs to clear it up btw. Cold crash to filter or filter with something else after the wort is cool. Will this really change the taste for the better???

You can filter using two kegs and a inline filter using CO2 so you don't oxidize if you want the "cleanest" beer possible at a home brew level. The big boys use a centrifuge to get any lingering yeast out. I have done it a few times but dont find it worth it anymore. I wouldn't mess with a filter if you cold crash, kind of a PITA and can intro an infection.
 
I drink all different types of beer from dogfish head 60 or 90 to anderson valley, russian river pliney. rougue, greenflash, firestone, sierra, palma louca, stella, all types of belgian beer and on and on. As a bar manager i get to order and try pretty much every type of beer. Plus the local pubs and local breweries.
I take everything as it comes when i brew, never rushing. Usually take 6 hours give or take from start to finish (cleaning included) for my all grain setup. I use a 10 gallon (cylinder cooler) igloo cooler system for mashing and usually do 6 gallon batches so i get 5g by the end of it all. I use an imersion chiller but i feel it takes longer then it should to cool. Like 45 minutes usually. I ferment in buckets, secondary in carboys and use a chest freezer with a johnson thermostat to control the temp. I do 2000 ml starters and oxygenate by high pooring into fermentation bucket. p.s. my fermentations take off like crazy now with the starter so i know its not a lack of yeast or oxygen. (i think.....)
How do you filter the beer? I use whirlfloc tabs to clear it up btw. Cold crash to filter or filter with something else after the wort is cool. Will this really change the taste for the better???

Homebrew really clears itself, but it can take a long time and low temps to get it very clear.

Filtering (search plate filter) does this very quickly. Most brewers use kegs and CO2 to push the beer through the filter. It can also be done with a pump sprayer, but I wouldn't recommend that (probably a good way to oxidize the crap out of your beer).

Try taking a homebrew and put it in the fridge for a month, undisturbed. Then pour carefully. If you still get the taste, it's probably not yeast.

Maybe you should also rule out something in the water. Try brewing with filtered water from the store.

Maybe you can get another opinion on your beer at your local LHBS or club.
 
passedpawn said:
Maybe you can get another opinion on your beer at your local LHBS or club.

I second that. Getting input from other brewers who brew great beer is the best way to track down flaws in your brew.
 
I know somebody has to know what im talking about. what is the homebrew taste. It's not any type of infection. Ive tasted other old homebrewers beer that doesnt seem to have it and they wont really let their secret out. Kegging seems to have a little less of the homebrew taste. water is fine. I do all grain sparge batching (no extract) and have a freezer i ferment in so the temp isnt all over the place. I am extremely clean and sanitary. Can anybody explain or expand on the subject..........

all of my past beers have been extract base and have always had an off taste best way to describe it is cidery. i have always practiced good sanitation but never did any temperature controlled fermenting. what ever the room temp was at. i generally fermented at low to mid 70. i always blamed it on canned malt extract. my first ag with controlled fermentation is in the secondary now. hopefully it make an improvement
 
all of my past beers have been extract base and have always had an off taste best way to describe it is cidery. i have always practiced good sanitation but never did any temperature controlled fermenting. what ever the room temp was at. i generally fermented at low to mid 70. i always blamed it on canned malt extract. my first ag with controlled fermentation is in the secondary now. hopefully it make an improvement

That may be and is most likely your cidery problem. Those temps will make it more estery. Troubleshooting is tougher at first but its a learning process.

O.P---Cold conditioning can round out those harsh flavors,could be the water which i seem to think can really make a difference,but generally checking my mash ph assures likely a good beer at least with my process. Maybe more filtering is what your looking for though.

Keeping the yeast out is a thing.Pouring the last 1/2 inch into the glass can really change the taste of it , often not for the better. Letting them sit longer really clears them up and can clean up(conditioning)and refine flavors. Thats why some people primary longer because by the time they are carbed they are generally good to go with less extensive bottle conditioning. Either way 8 weeks start to finish seems like my average good time to drink them. But sticking them in the fridge for even longer probably would be even better.
 
I agree the "homebrew taste" descrption is kinda hard to pinpoint. I think some of mine had a "taste" to them for a while i think it was oxidation but its not sherry or cardboard, its more like a citric carbonic bite maybe from overcarbonation or something.It wasnt bad just noticable.Probably something to do with the water though really maybe too hard or soft? Too much of a certain mineral proabably can just do that.
 
Time for a blind taste test Homebrew vs. Commercial. Which has the homebrew taste?:confused:
 
Time for a blind taste test Homebrew vs. Commercial. Which has the homebrew taste?:confused:

Interestingly, I just did this. I brewed a batch of my Rye IPA with John Maier at Rogue. I also have a batch that I brewed at home. Same recipe. Same taste. The Rogue batch has a bit thinner mouthfeel since we used Pacman on it and my yeast in the homebrew, but the flavor is the same.
 
Fresno water is not the issue, it's great. I doubt your process is to blame. In fact, the 2 beers of yours I tried awhile back were delicious. I've a plan: bring more over for me to taste, then we can compare them to my homemade beer for good measure ;)
 
I get in this argument a lot. I believe that most homebrews taste like homebrew, even the very good ones. There's a polished (not filtered polished) aspect to even bad commercial beer. I think it comes from them brewing all the time and keeping recipes fairly simple. I know that when I started brewing almost every weekend, and getting rid of a lot of specialty grain and random hops my beer tasted more like it came out of a legit brewery. It's like anything else, when it's second nature you're not making those little mistakes everyone else is.
 
Fresno water is not the issue, it's great. I doubt your process is to blame. In fact, the 2 beers of yours I tried awhile back were delicious. I've a plan: bring more over for me to taste, then we can compare them to my homemade beer for good measure ;)

ill bring you a pliney clone, a dba clone, amber ale, and a rye ipa. when you wanna do this?
 
malt20 said:
ill bring you a pliney clone, a dba clone, amber ale, and a rye ipa. when you wanna do this?

Uhhh... now?! Haha. Seriously, there's some napping going on right now, but once the kids are up we might have some free time. Let me chat with the wife (when she wakes up) and I'll get back to you- maybe you can bring your fam? I've got a couple on tap too. Text?
 
Interestingly, I just did this. I brewed a batch of my Rye IPA with John Maier at Rogue. I also have a batch that I brewed at home. Same recipe. Same taste. The Rogue batch has a bit thinner mouthfeel since we used Pacman on it and my yeast in the homebrew, but the flavor is the same.

I do this quite regularly with 2 of the recipes I brew. My Leffe clone, and Eshatz's Two Hearted Alone. Sometimes I even do tastings with other brewers comparing them, but often I'll just buy a sixer of the commercial versions while I'm going through a batch of mine.

Thank god mine's comparable to the originals.

The funny thing is, that sometimes in a taste test (usually with non brewers) they often pick my version out as being the commercial version. The only reason I think that happens is that mine has a fresher taste, not that it's better.
 
I do this quite regularly with 2 of the recipes I brew. My Leffe clone, and Eshatz's Two Hearted Alone. Sometimes I even do tastings with other brewers comparing them, but often I'll just buy a sixer of the commercial versions while I'm going through a batch of mine.

Thank god mine's comparable to the originals.

The funny thing is, that sometimes in a taste test (usually with non brewers) they often pick my version out as being the commercial version. The only reason I think that happens is that mine has a fresher taste, not that it's better.

I've had too many great tasting homebrews from a lot of brewers to believe that homebrew can't be as good or better than commercial beer. Comparable in every way. I'd have to say that if someone believes homebrew can't be as good or better than commercial beers they just haven't tasted good homebrew.
 
I definitely agree that homebrew can be on par with commercial, but it still takes practice. Even with oxygenation, temp control, rapid chillers, etc you still have to brew regularly to get a pro level product. The majority of brewers, or at least those in my club, only brew a few times a year and except for the odd occasion these are the same people that give me beer that tastes like homebrew. You have to brew regularly to keep your skills up and gain the experience of what works well otherwise the notion of competing on quality with someone that brews daily is a bit ridiculous.

Now the members that brew all the time generally give out beer that's commercial grade. It's doable, it's not even that hard, you just have to put in the effort. I'm on track for my second year of 30+ brews and am finally getting to where brewing is instinctual enough that I can focus on some of the small things that make big differences.
 
So, basically it comes down to the fact that homebrew that isn't made well isn't good, and and homebrew that is made well is good. I think I can agree with that! I'd have to say that in our club we have a lot more of the latter than the former.
 
I think at least part of the equation is mental. I brewed a red once that after I tried it I thought had the "homebrew taste." Then one time I meant to grab a Killian's but accidentally grabbed the home brew. I didn't notice I was drinking the homebrew until about half way through the beer.
 
I can always tell a difference in the beers i've brewed after having one too many, and those that i've done in a better state of mind.
 
I think at least part of the equation is mental. I brewed a red once that after I tried it I thought had the "homebrew taste." Then one time I meant to grab a Killian's but accidentally grabbed the home brew. I didn't notice I was drinking the homebrew until about half way through the beer.

Which is why the only objective way to taste is to do a blind triangle tasting. I've done too much research on how preconception influences perception to trust any other way.
 
Interesting thread. Are there any pro brewers that can substantiate the OP's claim? Most pro brewers started as home brewers. As much as I love my beer, they do share a common aftertaste. I have had much succes with my porters which do not seem to share this trait. I brew mostly ESB, Pale ales and IPA.
 
I went to a Reserve Society tasting at The Bruery today, and in addition to the tasting of their beers, most of the folks coming brought all sorts of amazing commercial beers. I brought along a homebrewed Gose and a homebrewed barrel-aged barleywine (club collaboration project). The Gose was extremely well received by everyone who had some, and I overheard (as I was in another conversation) people talking about the barleywine saying "this stuff easily could have come out of any of the fancy bottles that people have been passing around and nobody would know the difference". And obviously, for a Bruery Reserve Society event, these were some hardcore beer geeks.

Notes: both beers had been kegged more than long enough to be pouring quite clear, and so there should have been little to no yeast or sediment left in suspension. So for those who brought up the idea "yeast is the difference in flavor", which I pretty much agree with, here's potentially a bit of anecdotal evidence in favor of that.

So if you do it right, a good homebrew can pass for commercial quite easily.
 
I agree with you bwarbiany, the homebrew taste is probably just "green" beer. You gotta have patience grasshopper!

It's hard to be patient if you don't have a good pipeline.
 
It's not the green taste. I'm talking protocol here. I've researched and researched and people know what I'm talking about, they just cant explain it. I've talked to the LBS and they know what I'm getting at. It just seems no one can really explain it. I would really like a pro brewers opinion if there is one out there....
 
Not to dis-hearten any one. but i just feel that there are certain things that brewers don't let out once they find it.....Kind of like the game of pool...You really only know if you're taught by someone who knows the tricks already.
 
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