Alabama Homebrewer Arrested

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I agree with all the rest of you that this is bull$%!@. What a waste of time and money. I did some research online and I found the website for the Blount County Sheriff as well as the email address for Sheriff Loyd Arrington.

blountsheriffal.com
[email protected] - I haven't tried the address yet, but the website says this is the format for email addresses in their department.

One of the great things about this country is if you don't like something you can voice your disapproval. I suggest that we, in a very civil manner (remember you're talking to a sheriff) let Mr. Arrington know what a d-bag he is and that we disagree with his prosecution of Kade.
 
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/government-affairs/statutes/kentucky

OK So I'm in Kentucky... this is what the Homebrewers Association states that the law is in Kentucky. Does this simply mean I can not have friends over to drink homebrew but I can brew and drink it myself?

Personal use in your home (including your guests) should be fine, as long as they are all of age. Giving them bottles "to-go" is where you could get into issues, potentially, based on reading what is posted there.

Also, don't charge for it. :)
 
Personal use in your home (including your guests) should be fine, as long as they are all of age. Giving them bottles "to-go" is where you could get into issues, potentially, based on reading what is posted there.

Also, don't charge for it. :)

Actually, many states also allow parents to let their children drink alcohol (in the home). Although I think this would be a VERY bad practice, it is part of the freedom we enjoy. Florida is one of those states. This has been covered here at HBT before, and someone posted a link to a list of states that allow this.
 
Just my 2c here and if this has been said prior, I apologize for being a parrot.

Having been married to someone from AL before (not now), they are a very uptight religious state. IMHO, they are borderline fanatical about their laws in regards to shine and alcohol. Personally, if its illegal dont do it. Or if you want to, do it in your basement away from the public eye. Obviously, there is no still there at all. But, he should have known what he was getting into and not done it.

Hell, as soon as I got into this hobby, I did two things:

1) Bought some books on the matter
2) Researched the laws in regards to homebrewing and where I am currently living.

Now I have done a third thing:

3) Decided to never live in Oklahoma, Mississippi, or Alabama.
 
Actually, many states also allow parents to let their children drink alcohol (in the home). Although I think this would be a VERY bad practice, it is part of the freedom we enjoy. Florida is one of those states. This has been covered here at HBT before, and someone posted a link to a list of states that allow this.

Why is this a bad practice? America has some of the tightest alcohol control laws of any country I know where alcohol is legal, and it has more alcohol-related problems than most. In Germany, kids can legally start drinking at 14, and they learn to handle it maturely as they grow up. By the time they get a driver's license, they have already been drinking for years and don't go crazy. I think that it's just responsible parenting to teach kids to drink responsibly in the home, not just let them go crazy after they leave home. Your statement that "this would be a VERY bad practice" baffles me.
 
Why is this a bad practice? America has some of the tightest alcohol control laws of any country I know where alcohol is legal, and it has the more alcohol-related problems than most. In Germany, kids can legally start drinking at 14, and they learn to handle it maturely as they grow up. By the time they get a driver's license, they have already been drinking for years and don't go crazy. I think that it's just responsible parenting to teach kids to drink responsibly in the home, not just let them go crazy after they leave home. Your statement that "this would be a VERY bad practice" baffles me.

That's a different topic, but I agree with you.
 
Why is this a bad practice? America has some of the tightest alcohol control laws of any country I know where alcohol is legal, and it has more alcohol-related problems than most. In Germany, kids can legally start drinking at 14, and they learn to handle it maturely as they grow up. By the time they get a driver's license, they have already been drinking for years and don't go crazy. I think that it's just responsible parenting to teach kids to drink responsibly in the home, not just let them go crazy after they leave home. Your statement that "this would be a VERY bad practice" baffles me.

You know exactly why I think it is a bad idea so you're just being argumentative. I understand your point of view, and I agree there is some sense to it. I might be wrong, but I have to make a choice with my 3 children.

BTW, Germany's drinking age is 16.
 
Living in FL, my wife and I are dangerously approaching the 200g limit this year...OH NOES!

This statute seems extremely arbitrary - how would any state government regulate such a number? Paper trail?
 
Living in FL, my wife and I are dangerously approaching the 200g limit this year...OH NOES!

This statute seems extremely arbitrary - how would any state government regulate such a number? Paper trail?

You just did.


This is something like the deposition I was in, one time. This was a trade secret case, and the deponent had left my client's company to work for a competitor. The big issue in the case was whether the deponent had taken papers, plans, drawings, etc. from my client to bring to his new employer. The attorney taking the deposition asked the deponent, point blank, if the deponent had taken any such information and given it to his new employer. The deponent answered, all full of himself, "sure I did, but you'll never be able to prove it." That was the end of the deposition, and the case settled, quite favorably for my client, within 48 hours.

Admissions are even better than records of raw materials, a raid on your house, or anything like that. You can argue back and forth all day about what certain records might mean or what might have happened to all that grain, but someone will take an admission and stick it right up your ass.

Also remember that this isn't just some sort of ATF or FBI issue, it's also a tax issue (i.e., you are supposed to pay taxes on what you brew over the limit). You are probably right if you think the guys with guns do not want to fool around with some homebrewer, but the IRS lives for this sort of thing. When they send you a tax bill for brewing more than 200 gallons because you posted something here just so you can whip it out and show everyone how big you are, that'll kill your buzz a heck of a lot faster than some fuddy-duddy lawyer advising you to quiet down. If you demand proof about the tax bill, and they show you a copy of your post here, that ought to pucker you up in a big hurry.

Don't think the "friend" bit even comes close to getting you out from under the IRS, either. The next question will be "so, who's your friend?" Pick your poison.

Guys, I'm just trying to give you a little free advice. If you want to brag about what you or some "friend" is doing, just don't do it in writing. And, remember, this is all in writing! I am amazed at how quickly the forum will point out an underaged poster or a distilling thread, but then everyone comes in to flaunt how they have brewed more than the legal limit.

Brew strong, brew long, but keep your friggin' head in the game.


TL
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/who-s-about-go-illegal-2008-update-32773/index3.html#post899706
 
distilling is really only adding one more step to the process of making beer.
So for the guy that said distilled beer would be a waste,even though you only get about 300-350 ml of alcohol out of a gallon of beer.Man is it good after aging.(I don't own a still) but grew up drinking distilled beers of all kinds,Not knowing the law but after a few years I found out its illegal and don't drink it anymore.
 
The quote in the previous post is so good, I'm going to post it again. Why? Because this is something that needs to be repeated, emphasized, and probably put in a sticky.

Blustering and bitching is NOT going to change the law in question, or any law.

Bragging that you're brewing over the limit is liable to get somebody's ass in a sling.

We exist in a "don't ask, don't tell" bubble as homebrewers....as long as we keep a low profile, no one's going to pry into our brewing practices. Make it a public issue that embarrasses the bureaucrats.....and maybe you're looking right down the barrel of a 100% excise tax on malt or extract? Can't happen here? If you've lived in this country for more than a decade, how many things were you saying that very thing about in 2000?

Quote:
This is something like the deposition I was in, one time. This was a trade secret case, and the deponent had left my client's company to work for a competitor. The big issue in the case was whether the deponent had taken papers, plans, drawings, etc. from my client to bring to his new employer. The attorney taking the deposition asked the deponent, point blank, if the deponent had taken any such information and given it to his new employer. The deponent answered, all full of himself, "sure I did, but you'll never be able to prove it." That was the end of the deposition, and the case settled, quite favorably for my client, within 48 hours.

Admissions are even better than records of raw materials, a raid on your house, or anything like that. You can argue back and forth all day about what certain records might mean or what might have happened to all that grain, but someone will take an admission and stick it right up your ass.

Also remember that this isn't just some sort of ATF or FBI issue, it's also a tax issue (i.e., you are supposed to pay taxes on what you brew over the limit). You are probably right if you think the guys with guns do not want to fool around with some homebrewer, but the IRS lives for this sort of thing. When they send you a tax bill for brewing more than 200 gallons because you posted something here just so you can whip it out and show everyone how big you are, that'll kill your buzz a heck of a lot faster than some fuddy-duddy lawyer advising you to quiet down. If you demand proof about the tax bill, and they show you a copy of your post here, that ought to pucker you up in a big hurry.

Don't think the "friend" bit even comes close to getting you out from under the IRS, either. The next question will be "so, who's your friend?" Pick your poison.

Guys, I'm just trying to give you a little free advice. If you want to brag about what you or some "friend" is doing, just don't do it in writing. And, remember, this is all in writing! I am amazed at how quickly the forum will point out an underaged poster or a distilling thread, but then everyone comes in to flaunt how they have brewed more than the legal limit.

Brew strong, brew long, but keep your friggin' head in the game.


TL
 
You know exactly why I think it is a bad idea so you're just being argumentative. I understand your point of view, and I agree there is some sense to it. I might be wrong, but I have to make a choice with my 3 children.

BTW, Germany's drinking age is 16.

We're getting off-topic, PM sent
 
You just did.

I could see if I wrote something (stupid) like: "I just brewed my 41st 5 gallon batch this year!"

However, admission that one is nearing a limit is entirely different than admitting breaking/exceeding said limit. Especially when concrete figures haven't been offered. I'm wondering if the IRS/ATF would be willing to go through a huge audit/ordeal based on such vague language?

I get your point regardless, Ollllo. Well said.
 
We need more AL homebrewer arrested discussion and less :off: ...lol (no offense)

I would agree that this was BS going after a homebrewer. All the way up to the point they found a still AND shine. The part about "I was testing it as a fuel." this quote sums that up nicely...

I'll believe that when me shyte turns purple and tastes like rainbow sherbet...

This guy had a still and shine. That, IMO, is what will be his downfall because that is ILLEGAL EVERYWHERE! (unless you have jumped through the fiery hoops and all that is needed to operate a legal one...) If this was about some guy that was ONLY brewing beer that got arrested, I too would be upset because this is a GREAT and FUN hobby!

The fact that he also made beer, in a state that it is illegal to do so, is only a small portion of what was happening. As far as we know, this guy is in an elite group of folks that actually has been charged for illegal homebrewing beer in AL. IMO that was just "tacked on" because the authorities had to enforce the law. IE, they could not look the other way because of the still and shine, like a seat belt law when you ran over child DUI. As most laws of this kind go, the possession of firearms on the premises (even hunting firearms) only adds to this persons woes and increases the charges, dramatically. (Like doing all this in a school zone would do.)

This guy slapped the AL homebrew legalization folks right in the nuts. It makes them ALL look bad and will make their jobs even harder. This is UNFAIR to THEM!

To those folks that are "outraged" and think that this is all BS...How would you feel if one of your neighbors (or someone in your community), that was a homebrewer, was making drugs like crack, crystal meth or LSD in their home? Then when they raid this person, they have it all over the news that a "homebrewer" did all the rest of these horrid things? because it is not that far of a jump from this story...those are all manufactured or refined drugs...like shine...we seem to travel a "slippery slope" when we start deciding what laws apply to us and what laws do not. We as homebrewers have a unique position on this because we brew beer and I think get "outraged" quicker...

well that was my 0.02...
 
I'm wondering if the IRS/ATF would be willing to go through a huge audit/ordeal based on such vague language?

Personally, I think it's a bad idea to make assumptions as to what the ATF might do. They don't always think with their big head, if you know what I mean.
 
Personally, I think it's a bad idea to make assumptions as to what the ATF might do. They don't always think with their big head, if you know what I mean.

Agreed...really, I'm just curious. I think it would be incredible to get an excise tax letter in the mail from the IRS based on such a vague admission. I wouldn't be surprised if a homebrewer was going around claiming this and that in any/all public forums/venues and drew IRS/ATF suspicion; I would, however be very surprised if any of us posters who are relatively off the radar and made such a vague admission and an investigation ensued.

I wouldn't think it'd be cost-effective, but I will say strange things happen in the world of the state/fed govt.
 
Agreed...really, I'm just curious. I think it would be incredible to get an excise tax letter in the mail from the IRS based on such a vague admission. I wouldn't be surprised if a homebrewer was going around claiming this and that in any/all public forums/venues and drew IRS/ATF suspicion; I would, however be very surprised if any of us posters who are relatively off the radar and made such a vague admission and an investigation ensued.

I wouldn't think it'd be cost-effective, but I will say strange things happen in the world of the state/fed govt.

Agreed on all counts. :mug:
 
If people break every law they don't agree with, none of us are free.

Avoiding anarchy = good.

However, it's interesting to note the law that was broken. Beer is not illegal in alabama. Making it yourself, in the privacy of your own home, is the illegal part. Does that sound like a chunk of American-style freedom to you?
 
Seeing all of that equipment being displayed like contraband is depressing, especially because I wish I had that level of bling in my setup.

But the dude knew he was doing something against the law....if I get caught speeding, I ****ed up, I knew I was breaking the law when I did it. Unfortunately the penalties with what he did seem a hell of a lot worse, but he either knew the risks going in or screwed himself by being completely ignorant of the possible risks.
 
Avoiding anarchy = good.

However, it's interesting to note the law that was broken. Beer is not illegal in alabama. Making it yourself, in the privacy of your own home, is the illegal part. Does that sound like a chunk of American-style freedom to you?

Yeah, that sounds exactly like American-Style freedom to me.


If you don't like the law, work to change it. Or Move somewhere that it doesn't apply.
 
Yeah, that sounds exactly like American-Style freedom to me.


If you don't like the law, work to change it. Or Move somewhere that it doesn't apply.

American style freedom used to be: if you don't like the law, raise up an army and kill the tyrants.

Now we're all slaves to a broken system. Work to change it? Ya, good luck with that Mr. lower middle class. Your opinion means nothing to anyone in power.
 
Yeah, that sounds exactly like American-Style freedom to me.

If you don't like the law, work to change it. Or Move somewhere that it doesn't apply.

Throughout American history, the people responsible for doing the most in terms of abolishing unjust laws were the ones who broke them. Hell - the establishment of our country was based on the rejection of law. The founders of our nation were criminals of the highest order.

But since we're on the subject of Amerika, maybe we should point out - again - that this 'criminal' spent two tours in Iraq defending our nation. It seems like the law - and those that enforce it - would give at least a modicum of credit to the very people responsible for their existence.

But apparently not.

Here's hoping the Sheriff and DA get sucked up in a tornado while buggering each other. :mug:
 
Scratch Alabama from my list of places to visit. Alabama being next to Mississippi, it does not surprise me. A wise man said people get the government they deserve. In this case, the people obviously elected a clown as county sheriff. As we all know, most small town and county lawmen were the bullies in school, now they can persue their favorite ego building pass time behind the official sanction of a badge. The way they laid out the hops, the carboys and fermenters and other containers and even the poor guys hunting rifles shows the level of ignorance and desperation that the "lawmen" went to paint the brewer as a real baddie. I can only assume that the local area is A) dry, B) they all drink Bud or Miller and/or C) they are all raving religionists who still think that alcohol is the devil's tool. If even two out of the three assumptions are correct, then they have the law enforcement they want and deserve. That should be notice enough to people like us to leave a vapor trail as we leave or pass through the state.
 
This guy had a still and shine. That, IMO, is what will be his downfall because that is ILLEGAL EVERYWHERE! (unless you have jumped through the fiery hoops and all that is needed to operate a legal one...) If this was about some guy that was ONLY brewing beer that got arrested, I too would be upset because this is a GREAT and FUN hobby!

The fact that he also made beer, in a state that it is illegal to do so, is only a small portion of what was happening. As far as we know, this guy is in an elite group of folks that actually has been charged for illegal homebrewing beer in AL. IMO that was just "tacked on" because the authorities had to enforce the law. IE, they could not look the other way because of the still and shine, like a seat belt law when you ran over child DUI. As most laws of this kind go, the possession of firearms on the premises (even hunting firearms) only adds to this persons woes and increases the charges, dramatically. (Like doing all this in a school zone would do.)

This guy slapped the AL homebrew legalization folks right in the nuts. It makes them ALL look bad and will make their jobs even harder. This is UNFAIR to THEM!

To those folks that are "outraged" and think that this is all BS...How would you feel if one of your neighbors (or someone in your community), that was a homebrewer, was making drugs like crack, crystal meth or LSD in their home? Then when they raid this person, they have it all over the news that a "homebrewer" did all the rest of these horrid things? because it is not that far of a jump from this story...those are all manufactured or refined drugs...like shine...we seem to travel a "slippery slope" when we start deciding what laws apply to us and what laws do not. We as homebrewers have a unique position on this because we brew beer and I think get "outraged" quicker...

well that was my 0.02...

I agree with you 100%. Its kind of like the ol' say if a bear ****s in the woods......but he didnt **** in the woods. He made a good attempt to NOT hide it. Now the people that are fighting for him in the first place end up getting sent back two steps. Oh well. Glad I live in a place that doesnt tax beer production at all. One good redeeming quality to DC.
 
Another thing.....the difference between people who dont agree with laws now and the patriots of the Revolutionary period of American history is they for the most part met in private and conducted the bulk of their business behind closed doors until it escalated to war. We homebrewers are FAR from war yet.
 
Another thing.....the difference between people who dont agree with laws now and the patriots of the Revolutionary period of American history is they for the most part met in private and conducted the bulk of their business behind closed doors until it escalated to war. We homebrewers are FAR from war yet.

Funny you mention war...

The 'convict' in question just returned from serving two tours.

I personally think he's been close enough to war to merit at least a hint of leniency.

But hey... who gives a s-h-i-t, right? After all, he's harmed the homebrewing movement!!!! :eek: Oh Teh Noes!!! Someone get a rope while I look for a chair to kick out from underneath him.
 
Having been married to someone from AL before (not now), they are a very uptight religious state. IMHO, they are borderline fanatical about their laws in regards to shine and alcohol.

3) Decided to never live in Oklahoma, Mississippi, or Alabama.

That's exactly it. Religious fanatics not much different from Taliban think they can tell you what's the "God's Law". Something like that could only happen in Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia and yeah, in Alabama, USA. So sad.
These people forget that Jesus drunk a home brew wine during the Last Supper (I'm sure He didn't buy it at WalMart).
 
Funny you mention war...

The 'convict' in question just returned from serving two tours.

I personally think he's been close enough to war to merit at least a hint of leniency.


But hey... who gives a s-h-i-t, right? After all, he's harmed the homebrewing movement!!!! :eek: Oh The

Noes!!! Someone get a rope while I look for a chair to kick out from underneath him.

Don't get me wrong. I am not trying to come down on him. In fact, I was making comment about the people who think they compare to our forefathers. Me, I am Navy by the way. IMHO serving your country does not give you the right to break laws that are greater than your average traffic infraction. If people want to change the laws, do it via the right channels. That's what the miltary taught me.
 
These people forget that Jesus drunk a home brew wine during the Last Supper (I'm sure He didn't buy it at WalMart).

+1,000,000

I've never understood the whole idea that tea totalling was holy considering our "CEO" did a bit of winemaking himself. :D

Maybe before becoming a protestant minister I was raised Catholic, and THEY had no issues with partaking of the hooch.

Seriously though when I was going through first communion I asked the priest why wine was the basis of communion, and also of the first Jesus miracle. He told me that basically water in the desert was hard to find, and often deadly to consume, so wine (and also in retrospect other alcoholic beverages like mead and beer and ciders as we know) were drank because it was safer than water. Now we know this as our brewing "history" that we make and drank alcohol because it was safer than water.

It is cut and dried...they drank hooch to stay alive. So it was extremely important to them...so therefore SACRED.

The whole anabaptist and other fundy ideas that they drank "grape juice" as many say is patently ridiculous. It was fermented. It had to be to kill off the bacteria and preserve it.

And I believe Jesus was no stranger to a good buzz now and then either. Especially when celebrating a friend's wedding.


It's funny. I never dreamed that 30 some years later I would be an "expert" on both theology and alcohol. Ain't life funny???? :mug:
 
Don't get me wrong. I am not trying to come down on him. In fact, I was making comment about the people who think they compare to our forefathers. Me, I am Navy by the way. IMHO serving your country does not give you the right to break laws that are greater than your average traffic infraction. If people want to change the laws, do it via the right channels. That's what the miltary taught me.

IMHO serving your country does not give you the right to break laws... PERIOD!

By definition.. none of us have the RIGHT to break LAWS... thats the whole point. I think the fact that he is a veteran is completely independent from the point... in fact, its all the more reason he should know right from wrong.

It has been pointed out before and Ill say it again, just because you dont like a law, it doesnt excuse you from the consequences of breaking it... I dont care who you are.. civilian, officer, senator or even the president.

and, that goes for all laws.. even a traffic infraction.
 
I fully agree the government has the authority to attempt to punish us for breaking it's laws. But we also have the authority as free individuals to resist them. You can be free from any law if you're willing to accept the risks/consequences.
 
It has been pointed out before and Ill say it again, just because you dont like a law, it doesnt excuse you from the consequences of breaking it... I dont care who you are.. civilian, officer, senator or even the PRESIDENT.

and, that goes for all laws.. even a traffic infraction.

Man does obama get away with stuff

Look up "Obama's secret meeting with the Bilderberg Group" on youtube

He is in bilderberg group
 
Man does obama get away with stuff

Look up "Obama's secret meeting with the Bilderberg Group" on youtube

He is in bilderberg group

As was Bush, and Clinton, and Bush senior, and and reagan and carter and yadda yadda yadda, probably all the way back to George Washington. You don't become prezzy unless the real rulers allow it (if you believe that sort of thing).....watch Alex Jones movies...how the hell do you think ANYONE regardless of supposed party affiliation gets to be President. They have to be vetted by Bilderburgh, and Bohemian Grove, and the illuminati....Say stuff like that and I can easily find conspiracy "theories" to show the Republican presidents were equally tied to supposed secret societies (Oh wait it has been well documented the Bush Junior was a member of skull and bones when he was at Yale or Harvard or wherever, and they are the training camp for Bohemian grove)....we've been blaming each other for being patsies of the shadow government since time immemorial, so don't go there. Between 2001 and 2009 BOTH Nancy Pelosi and Dick Cheney were said to be Lizard people and folks claimed the saw both their eyes go slitty (you can see THOSE films on youtube as well)....The tea partyites think they invented half the carp they've been accusing Obama of, but if you follow conspiracy theories as long as I have you'll see that the same stuff was said about Bush and cheney for 8 years...all they've done is changed the names. I saw the exact same accusations for the last 8 years with exactly the same words, only the president's name changed. Hell even the death panels that they said would happen under "obamacare" look at the Death trains that the Bush administration was said to have, been there, done that forever....( FYI I collect conspiracy theories like folks collect base ball cards, so I'm not saying this from one side or the other, just that I've seen the same things for years).... But that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand at all.. :rolleyes:
 

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