Issues with Bottle Conditioning and Carbonation

I've been brewing for about two years and have made over 50 batches, but have recently ran into an issue I cannot solve on my own with deductive reasoning. For reasons I'm not completely sure, the bottle conditioning process I have been using for quite some time is not carbonating my beer sufficiently, even after six weeks of being in the bottle. My last four batches over the last twelve weeks have come out really flat.

Other notables:

1. Temp is always 65-70
2. I secondary fermented my beers and there is VERY little sediment
3. Batches were AG only and partial mashes
4. I used about four oz priming sugar per five gallon volume
5. I don't normally secondary ferment, but have done so in the past without these same issues
6. Fermentation times were normal, in the 3-5 day range
7. Beer never dropped below 60 degrees during the whole process

I feel the problem must stem from one (or more) of these:

1. Not enough priming sugar
2. Not enough pitching yeast
3. Too proficient at clarifying beer with syphon and secondary fermentation
4. Too low of temperature bottle conditioning temperature

My questions:

1. Despite very, very little carbonation, if I wait a few more months, will it continue to carbonate?
2. Could it be possible I "filtered" too many yeast out of the batch, leading to my eventual lack of carbonation?
3. If #2 is true, is there anything I can do to fix it at this point?

Hope you get some answers. I have a batch of red that is 3 weeks in the bottle and it's almost flat. A batch brewed a week later and stored in the same place is WAY ahead of it in terms of carb.

I am begining to thing I forgot the priming sugar, but I don't think I would have done that.

Thanks for the reply. It's funny because I've never had troubles before, which makes me believe it is either the weather or the fact I've been a little too careful with allowing sediment into the bottles and I'm always extremely careful to use the correct amount of priming sugar.

I don't think you would have removed enough yeast by siphoning only. Sediment in the bottles during bottling shouldn't be a factor as there should still be plenty of yeast in suspension at that temp.

Sorry that doesn't answer your question but I was eliminate #3 as a possibility "Too proficient at clarifying beer with syphon and secondary fermentation"

Unless you cold crashed or used gelatin I don't think you would have removed enough yeast from suspension to hinder your bottle carbing. I have done both of those methods and still bottle carbed successfully.

I really appreciate that response. It definitely leaves me a little more puzzled, but it's comforting to know syphoning alone cannot remove enough yeast to blunt the carbonation process.

This leads me to believe the bottles will carbonate in time, but just may take longer to get there. Thanks for your $0.02.

Are you fermenting with fresh yeast vs. washed? And what are you using to cap? Type of bottles??... although my guess here they would be completely flat if there was something wrong.

Priming sugar not mixing well enough, do some carb better than others? Are you boiling and adding the sugar to the boiling water... granted I am guessing after 50 batches you would be doing this too.

Bottle cleaning procedure? What are you using to sanitize?

How long did you secondary? And what type of beer are these?

All good questions.

-I'm using Wyeast smack packs (1028 and 1056).
-12 oz and 22 oz brown bottles
-All currently contain about the same level of carbonation in each bottle post-bottle conditioning
-Cleaning very thoroughly with bleach/cold water, then very hot water rinse x2
-All beers in the primary for one week, in secondary for one week

Beer 1: Cappuccino stout with 1028
Beer 2: Ahtanum IPA with 1056 (OG 1.066, FG 1.010)
Beer 3: Northwest pale with 1056 (OG 1.060, FG 1.015)
Beer 4: Irish red with 1028 (OG 1.060, FG 1.017)

After brewing for two years, I can confirm the methods I'm using for sanitation and priming, bottling have not changed and I don't think they are an issue. However, I am fairly new to the world of secondary fermenting, so I'm not certain if that's where the answer potentially lies...

I have also brewed and bottled 50+batches in my first 2 years of brewing. I have never had a flat beer but some have had less fizz than I'd hoped for. I never had a bottle bomb so lately I increased my bottling sugar to 4.3 oz per batch and so far I'm pleased with the increased fizz and still no bottle bombs yet..

I assume you're using similar sanitation procedures for your racking cane and secondary vessel when you transfer. If you didn't quite get all the sanitizer out of the secondary, there could be some funky flavors so if your beer tastes fine other than it being flat this probably wouldn't be the answer. I would check your capping device for wear or deterioration that could affect the seal you achieve. You could purchase a new capping device and when you bottle your next batch use the old and the new on a couple bottles and mark them so you can tell.

kemmee, this is an excellent point! I never considered the capper could be the potential problem.

Since my beers otherwise taste really good but lack sufficient carbonation, it is entirely plausible my capper could be to blame for this situation. Thank you very much for your input.

65-70 may be a touch low- try warming them up for a couple of weeks - if no carb then i would suspect the capper as well.

you could take a bottle - shake it and turn upside down - if no leakage then the capper is ok

I've turned them upside down without any leakages, so you might be right about the temperature. I'll give them a couple more weeks at higher temps to see if that might help.

I really appreciate all the advice and knowledge!

Just a quick follow up, in case anyone has the same issues or searches for an answer to a similar question in the future:

I believe the problem arose from cleaning my keg out with soapy water. Despite doing my best to remove all the soapy residue and rinsing repeatedly over and over, I believe a small amount of soap made it into my batch and that is what is ruining the carbonation and head retention in my beer.

From doing a search and reading other forums on homebrewtalk, it's evident using soap to clean out your keg is a terrible idea. In fact, one thing I've learned is to never use soap in any beer making process.

It's a hard lesson learned, especially since I have over 200 flat beers in my basement with a slight chemically aftertaste. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping they will mature to be drinkable in time...

I would take one bottle and shake it, hold it upside down. if theres any carbonation and capper problem, you should see some beer. If nothing happens, take that bottle to somewhere warmer. let it sit for two weeks.

It's funny you should bump this thread; I've been bottling for nearly two years with virtually no procedure changes and only recently started having some flat batches. They're intermittent, though, so I'm not sure what the deal is.

My most recent batch was supposed to have been fully carbed three weeks ago, but it just wasn't at all. I fixed it (I think) by turning all the cases of bottles upside down for a few days and then back over, and just waiting another couple of weeks.

I've only had two recently, but both were (finally!) well-carbonated.

My theory was leaving too much yeast in the secondary, too. And also maybe because I ran all the bottles through a water-only cycle in the dishwasher, but I've also done that with batches that carbed fine.

Were these low-gravity brews? Because that's a common factor with mine.

Thanks for your input, teach.

Here's the gravity of the brews:

Beer 1: Cappuccino stout with 1028
Beer 2: Ahtanum IPA with 1056 (OG 1.066, FG 1.010)
Beer 3: Northwest pale with 1056 (OG 1.060, FG 1.015)
Beer 4: Irish red with 1028 (OG 1.060, FG 1.017)

As I noted above, "I believe the problem arose from cleaning my keg out with soapy water. Despite doing my best to remove all the soapy residue and rinsing repeatedly over and over, I believe a small amount of soap made it into my batch and that is what is ruining the carbonation and head retention in my beer.

From doing a search and reading other forums on homebrewtalk, it's evident using soap to clean out your keg is a terrible idea. In fact, one thing I've learned is to never use soap in any beer making process."