High OG, moderate attenuation, need repitch?

Dear all,
I have a 5 gal, LME, high (estimated) OG beer with an FG of 1.03 (steady for 1wk or more). Since the beer is already in the secondary (I didn't know better), would it be worthwhile to pitch more year to bring the FG down?

I followed a recipe (based on https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f73/be...dal-dragonmead-final-absolution-clone-137219/ )
calling for
11 lbs LME
1.5 lb belgian candy
2oz bittering, 1oz flavoring, 1oz aroma hops
1 WLP500 trappist ale yeast (made 1 qt starter)
I goofed up and added 5 gal water instead of 6
I also goofed up again and did NOT take an initial hydrometer reading!

I estimate the OG to be about 1.105 based on a calculator (Beer Calculus . homebrew recipe calculator)

At two weeks, I goofed up yet again and racked to the secondary, not knowing that I needed more time and the trub to bring my FG down further.

The recipe suggested 1.016 FG based on 6 gal, the calculator estimated 1.023 based on 5 gal, I currently have 1.03, so I estimate the attenuation is around 71%, giving roughly 9.8% abv.

Based on discussions I've read, it seems that my fermentation is done, especially after I racked it. I have the option of pitching additional yeast (either more of the trappist yeast, or with champagne), but not sure if this is worth the hassle.

Bottom line: Should I bottle (and hope for no bottle bombs) or should I try to bring the FG down further?

Best
pete

1.030 is probably going to be a little cloying. If you are going to re-pitch, you need to make an more-than-adequate starter and re-pitch when the starter is at it's prime.

Champagne yeast could do the trick... Who cares if it's bone dry...

Grizzlybrew said:

1.030 is probably going to be a little cloying. If you are going to re-pitch, you need to make an more-than-adequate starter and re-pitch when the starter is at it's prime.

Champagne yeast could do the trick... Who cares if it's bone dry...

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If there are still fermentable sugars in there, champagne yeast may help - it's very tolerant of adverse conditions (eg high alcohol, low nutrients, low oxygen). It won't make it bone dry. It can metabolize the same sugars as most ale yeasts. The reason wine/champagne is so dry is because there are few, if any, complex sugars. Add ale yeast to grape juice and it will also be bone dry. Champagne yeast won't do any good if there are no more sugars to metabolize. But at 1.030 you still might have fermentable sugars, so it might be worth trying. Your original yeast may have pooped out (though wlp500 is supposed to be good for high gravity worts)

I don't think Champagne yeast is going to do anything. Most of the simple sugars are already used up.

I think you need to re-check your calculation. In 5 gallons, I think your OG would be closer to 1.090, not 1.105. I think you put DME in the calculator, not LME, which will make a big difference.

What temperature is the beer at. If the temperature gets cold (below 65), that yeast can drop out. The first thing I would do is raise the temperature to somewhere above 70 F and see if anything happens.

I would not bottle at this point. If warming it up doesn't help, I'd either make a starter and add new yeast. or brew another beer and rack this one on the cake.

Calder said:

I don't think Champagne yeast is going to do anything. Most of the simple sugars are already used up.

I think you need to re-check your calculation. In 5 gallons, I think your OG would be closer to 1.090, not 1.105. I think you put DME in the calculator, not LME, which will make a big difference.

What temperature is the beer at. If the temperature gets cold (below 65), that yeast can drop out. The first thing I would do is raise the temperature to somewhere above 70 F and see if anything happens.

I would not bottle at this point. If warming it up doesn't help, I'd either make a starter and add new yeast. or brew another beer and rack this one on the cake.

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It is my impression that champagne yeast (and all wine yeasts really) can ferment the same sugars as an attenuative ale yeast - not just simple sugars. Wine yeasts and ale yeasts are actually different strains of the same species of yeast. Lager strains are a different species and can actually ferment some of the more complex sugars.

I'm not sure what the solution is here, if there even is one. It is possible that the fermentation is done at this gravity, though it does seem higher than it should be. Rousing the yeast and increasing the temp might be good first steps. If that doesn't work, you could try champagne yeast and/or a lager yeast (I've heard of others using a lager strain to help finish a fermentation, but I have never done it).

JLem said:

It is my impression that champagne yeast (and all wine yeasts really) can ferment the same sugars as an attenuative ale yeast - not just simple sugars. Wine yeasts and ale yeasts are actually different strains of the same species of yeast. Lager strains are a different species and can actually ferment some of the more complex sugars.

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just wanted to clarify/fix my own post here. Champagne yeast are actually strains of a 3rd species, S. bayanus, separate from both ale/wine (S. cerevisiae) and lager (S. pastorianus) species. Still, their metabolism of carbohydrates is similar to the ale/wine yeasts.

JLem, you raise a good point. My experience with champagne yeasts so far has been mostly with Ciders, which obviously has a different sugar make up than grain. Once again, I fired off too quickly without thinking... ask my wife about that one

Grizzlybrew said:

JLem, you raise a good point. My experience with champagne yeasts so far has been mostly with Ciders, which obviously has a different sugar make up than grain. Once again, I fired off too quickly without thinking.

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I'm not sure I agree with JLem. I'm waiting for others to chime in and see what they have to say about it.

My understanding (no experience), is that ale yeasts will work on more complex sugars than wine or champagne yeasts. In the same beer, an ale yeast will ferment lower.

Calder said:

I'm not sure I agree with JLem. I'm waiting for others to chime in and see what they have to say about it.

My understanding (no experience), is that ale yeasts will work on more complex sugars than wine or champagne yeasts. In the same beer, an ale yeast will ferment lower.

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Here's a brewing network podcast with yeast and wine expert Shea Comfort talking about using wine yeasts in beer - http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/The-Sunday-Session/The-Sunday-Session-11-23-08-Shea-Comfort

It is a great listen - probably the most informative episode they have.

I've used a wine yeast for beer myself. It worked fine. Though I also added Brett to the beer after primary fermentation so I intentionally made a less fermentable wort wanting to leave something in there for the Brett to chew on. I don't know if an ale yeast would have fermented it any more or not. This would be an interesting experiment though - I might try it.

Hi,
I think I accidentally double-posted, so I never saw this response. In any case, I've verified my numbers using the hopville calculator: http://hopville.com/recipe/1122507/home-brew/high-gravity-111211

I'm not sure if the temperature dropped below 65, but in San Diego, it's certainly possible, especially since it was over christmas break.

I later added champagne yeast (2L, high krausen starter), but still didn't make a dent in the F.G. after about 3 weeks.

You suggested brewing another beer and racking my stuck beer on its cake. Would you suggest doing a moderate beer (like 1.05-7 OG), same yeast, same LME? I washed the yeast from the primary, so I could make a starter from that.


best
pete

huskeypm said:

I later added champagne yeast (2L, high krausen starter), but still didn't make a dent in the F.G. after about 3 weeks.

You suggested brewing another beer and racking my stuck beer on its cake. Would you suggest doing a moderate beer (like 1.05-7 OG), same yeast, same LME? I washed the yeast from the primary, so I could make a starter from that.

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You may have a problem. Most champagne yeast is called killer yeast; that is, it will kill normal sacc ale yeasts, so throwing this on a cake may not help.

But, since the champagne yeast didn't do anything, it might have dropped, and racking onto a cake may just have overwhelming numbers of yeast cells that it might work.

What brand was your lme, and did you make shure your hydro is correct?Using distilled water to check it? This is one reason why i wont do big beers with all extract, the finish you got is probablbly all your going to get i thought my 1.08 og 1.02fg were not low enough with mostly extract as the base.
To me with your estimated og wich you unfortunatly didnt get a reading,i would expect this kind of finish with extract.