PanzerOfDoom
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To go inside a cooler mashtun. What say the masses?
Mashtun Manifold: Copper or PVC?
- Thread starter PanzerOfDoom
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Brewsmith
Home brewing moogerfooger
Copper. Mine works great, it comes apart easily, I made it myself, and it looks really cool. 
I'm going to go with a false-bottom. A little more complicated, but it seems like a better system to me with less dead-space.
El Pistolero
Well-Known Member
I agree with Cheyco on the false bottom...in fact I'm not even sure you can call yourself a real brewer if you're using a manifold.
El Pistolero said:I agree with Cheyco on the false bottom...in fact I'm not even sure you can call yourself a real brewer if you're you're using a manifold.
I'm not touching that.
You kinda just did...
Monster Mash
Well-Known Member
My vote is a stainless hose braid. I've been brewing 11 years and I used a false bottom for most of them. IMO false bottoms suck, they are more prone to stuck sparges then the stainless braid or other types of manifolds. I had a copper manifold for about a year and it worked great also but I didn't like the fact it would go in looking oxidized and would come out sparkling clean.
cowain
Well-Known Member
CPVC. Copper isn't worth the money for the look (no one sees it but you). Also, as to the dead space issue, if you construct it properly and have a good cooler, you can avoid a lot of deadspace.
And, for El P, BLEACH DOESN'T BELONG IN BREWING. SEMPER FI!
And, for El P, BLEACH DOESN'T BELONG IN BREWING. SEMPER FI!
Brewpastor
Beer, not rocket chemistry
I say go with copper. Copper is a yeast nutrient and while a copper coil chiller will do the job as well, it can't hurt to have it in the manifold. In my house the water lines are copper, as well as my well line. I don't like the idea of drinking through PVC too much. Call me paranoid, but running my hot wort through PVC just doesn't sound too appealing. I also don't own any black cats...
Brewpastor said:
CPVC....it can hold up to the temps. I'd rather have my beverages going through that instead of copper...personal preferences for us all I guess!!!!
Baron von BeeGee
Beer Bully
Yeah, I don't think it much matters. I went with copper because I wanted to buy a torch. Not that I couldn't have, anyways, but it gave me purpose.
Brewpastor
Beer, not rocket chemistry
Baron von BeeGee said:
Any excuse to get more toys!
Those of you who are a afraid to use PVC for a Manifold should'nt use plastic coolers for mash tuns and hot water tanks for sparging. According to Bodensatz.com FAQ Quote (Both Rubbermaid as well as Igloo both state NOT to use them for mashing tuns) Remember they are plastic inside probally pvc.
They are Bevridge coolers not intended for heat. Mybe I'll start a little controversy and paste a new thread on this subject.
They are Bevridge coolers not intended for heat. Mybe I'll start a little controversy and paste a new thread on this subject.
davidkrau said:
Wonder what food grade guy will think about that.
Baron von BeeGee
Beer Bully
Coolers are made out of HDPE, not PVC, and have a pretty broad temperature range.
Baron von BeeGee
Beer Bully
Who are "they"? HDPE is high density polyethylene. It can handle boiling temperatures no problem and is used in many, many food applications. If I get cancer it'll be from the beer and cigars, not the coolertundavidkrau said:
Baron von BeeGee
Beer Bully
You're gonna go crazy and die!11!desertBrew said:I went with a copper manifold but eventually will switch it out with some form of aluminum manifold
El Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Baron von BeeGee said:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Baron von BeeGee
Beer Bully
That's when you get really excited and don't manage to hold down the shift key. Like this!uno!
To Baron
In answer to your question "they" are the manufacturers of Igloo and Rubbermaid coolers. I use and will continue to use a cooler for a mash tun. I've had no problems. I was merely curious why the manufacturers do not recommend the coolers for hot liquids.
In answer to your question "they" are the manufacturers of Igloo and Rubbermaid coolers. I use and will continue to use a cooler for a mash tun. I've had no problems. I was merely curious why the manufacturers do not recommend the coolers for hot liquids.
cowain
Well-Known Member
davidkrau said:
I think manufacturers of everything don't like it when their product is used for an alternate use. When used for an alternate use and they know about it, they may become liable for any product liability issues that arise from the alternate use and they probably didn't do any testing on the product to see how it would perform under the alternate use condition.
Basically they are afraid someone will sue them for getting cancer or a stroke or something or that if something bad happens to the cooler and hot liquid goes everywhere.
Monster Mash
Well-Known Member
If you really want a cheap and easy to make manifold that works great and is better then CPVC or copper then just buy a length of stainless braid and pull the tubing out.
Its not surprising that cooler manufacturers don't recommend using their products for mash tuns. They have no idea what a mash tun is and haven't had their R&D test them for that use.
Its not surprising that cooler manufacturers don't recommend using their products for mash tuns. They have no idea what a mash tun is and haven't had their R&D test them for that use.
Lounge Lizard
Well-Known Member
Monster Mash said:If you really want a cheap and easy to make manifold that works great and is better then CPVC or copper then just buy a length of stainless braid and pull the tubing out.
Dang... I like it!
The only question I have... The Bazooka-T copper (connected to the braid) is positioned so that it reaches the lowest point in the center of the keg. Does your design leave much liquid in the tun? Or will the suction pull most of it out through the braid?
Thanks...
Monster Mash
Well-Known Member
I built the tee so it goes to the bottom of the pot. There is not much liquid left if I run it all the way down but since I fly sparge I sometimes leave a lot of liquid behind if my pot is full or Im down to 1.010.
The braid works great though, I consistantly get 75% - 85% efficiency and I've never had a stuck sparge.
The braid works great though, I consistantly get 75% - 85% efficiency and I've never had a stuck sparge.
Brewsmith
Home brewing moogerfooger
I'm still gonna go with the copper manifold. Zero dead space. Although, like monster mash, I often have liquid left in the MLT because I have collected enough already. But, to each his own. It looks like we're all getting good results with our respective systems. I will agree that the SS braid is probably a little easier to build, but I think the copper worth the extra effort.
Monster Mash
I like your mash tun. I'm not familiar with SS braid. Can you get it in the plumbing Deptof Home Depot or where? What is it called ? Can you buy it in lengths? What kind of tee do you use? Do you siphon the wort out or what? Sorry to be a pest and ask so many questions but your wort tun seems like the best I've seen. Maybe you should patent it! Somebody on this thread said you have to use a false bottom or your not a real brewer. I say use whatever is the easiest and works the best.
I like your mash tun. I'm not familiar with SS braid. Can you get it in the plumbing Deptof Home Depot or where? What is it called ? Can you buy it in lengths? What kind of tee do you use? Do you siphon the wort out or what? Sorry to be a pest and ask so many questions but your wort tun seems like the best I've seen. Maybe you should patent it! Somebody on this thread said you have to use a false bottom or your not a real brewer. I say use whatever is the easiest and works the best.
Monster Mash
Well-Known Member
davidkrau said:
They carry SS braid at any hardware store but you have to be carefull because they have another type that looks like stainless but it's plastic. It comes in various lengths and is becoming the #1 choice for most homebrewers because it is easy to build and it is stainless. I know many brewers that are getting rid of their false bottoms because they are prone to stuck sparges. Anyone who says you're not a real brewer if you don't use one will also say extract brewers aren't real brewers either. I built the tee out of 1/2" copper.
Lounge Lizard
Well-Known Member
Monster Mash said:
Thanks, I'm also going to go the stainless braid route. Does your copper angle down from the fitting in the side of the bulkhead? It's hard to tell from the picture. And I guess there are copper fittings that will screw into a Weld-B-Gone bulkhead fitting? Like I said about the picture.
How about taking yours apart and posting pictures for everyone? lol
Just kiddding.... though it would be nice since you started all of this mess...
Thanks...
Monster Mash
I've got 12 feet SS mesh, I removed the PVC Pipe. How did you make the Tee? Is it tied into the bulkhead so you have a gravity feedof wort or do you siphon? I think Llounge Lizard has sone of the same questions.
You've been a great help Thanks
David
I've got 12 feet SS mesh, I removed the PVC Pipe. How did you make the Tee? Is it tied into the bulkhead so you have a gravity feedof wort or do you siphon? I think Llounge Lizard has sone of the same questions.
You've been a great help Thanks
David
Lounge Lizard
Well-Known Member
davidkrau said:
Copper pipe fittings come in all sorts of designs. There are tees, elbows (90 degree), and so forth. It looks like he just got a tee fitting and silver soldered three short pieces of 1/2" copper pipe into the each of the three openings. Two of them have the braid hose clamped on to them. The other goes to the fitting in the bulkhead. The latter is what I was asking about. Still not sure how that hooks up.
You can pick up a tubing/small pipe cutter pretty cheaply at a hardware store.
I don't plan on soldering the pieces into the actual tee itself. I think I will just press fit the things, and then drill a hole through each connection and insert a screw, to keep the pieces from coming apart. Easier to take apart and clean that way. They don't need to be leakproof in that area.
Oh, gravity feeding and siphoning is essentially the same thing in this case. The hose leading from the spigot in the bulkhead (unless he has a pump) would have a hose attached that drains into the boil kettle below. Gravity would get it started, then he would have it and a little siphon action going as well.
To Monster Mash and Lounge Lizard
I've finished ths SS braib set up for my 5 gal round Igloo. How does this sound? any suggestions for refinements 12 Feet braided SS. Is this too long? A copper tee with a barb connectedto a siphon . The other end of the bar is silver soldered into the tee. The siphon hose is connected with hose clamps to the barb Two other barbs are connected to each end of the SS braid. The other end or the barbs slide into each side of the tee. Not soldered so it can be easily disconnected for cleaning. It looks similar to the Monster Mash's picture. Thanks again for your help
I've finished ths SS braib set up for my 5 gal round Igloo. How does this sound? any suggestions for refinements 12 Feet braided SS. Is this too long? A copper tee with a barb connectedto a siphon . The other end of the bar is silver soldered into the tee. The siphon hose is connected with hose clamps to the barb Two other barbs are connected to each end of the SS braid. The other end or the barbs slide into each side of the tee. Not soldered so it can be easily disconnected for cleaning. It looks similar to the Monster Mash's picture. Thanks again for your help
Chairman Cheyco said:
I have copper but with a semi-custom dual Bazooka screen. Chairman has a good point though. Didn't think of that angle. Especially with the round cooler configuration
Lounge Lizard
Well-Known Member
davidkrau said:
Twelve feets sounds way long. Six feet even sounds long. A Bazooka screen is only like, what, a foot or so long? Of course Monster Mash has a different set-up. I would imagine a couple of coils around the bottom like his would be plenty.
When you say siphon, do you mean spigot or bulkhead fitting at the bottom?
Or do you mean the hose is going to reach up over the top and hang down from there?
To Lounge Lizard
The hose goes from the tee at the botton of the cooler and then up over the top of the cooler and the liquid is then siphoned into the boiler. The siphon would work the same as siphoning from a corboy. Palmer in his book Page 209 shows a setup where the hose goes over the top. I think it would take lot of know how to tie the tee into the bulkhead. I probably will shorten the mesh.
The hose goes from the tee at the botton of the cooler and then up over the top of the cooler and the liquid is then siphoned into the boiler. The siphon would work the same as siphoning from a corboy. Palmer in his book Page 209 shows a setup where the hose goes over the top. I think it would take lot of know how to tie the tee into the bulkhead. I probably will shorten the mesh.
davidkrau said:
12 feet seems like an awful lot to me. How do you have it arranged? Or is it just lying in the bottom of the cooler?
I trust you've seen Palmer's how to on building a mash/lauter tun? His discussion of flow potential and tun geometry is a great read.
http://www.howtobrew.com/appendices/appendixD.html
Also, if I read this right you're gonna just siphon it out of the cooler.. why? If the cooler doesn't have a drain hole built in it then get out a hole saw and cut one in the appropriate place. Then add kewlz kit and you're set. Of course, the cheaper alternative is to just push a drilled stopper into the hole, run a copper tube through it (believe it or not it really doesn't leak) and then add a bulkhead fitting to the outside and you're good to go.
Sorry, somehow I missed you last post...
Here's how you attach the copper tube to the bulkhead:
you'll need a threaded adapter (maybe $2 at most) - it'll have a compression fitting on one side and threads on the other that will screw into your 3/8" ball valve (about $6). Make sure the compression fitting actually fits your copper tube - don't go by the size listed. In my experience the sizes refer to the diameter of hard copper pipe, if you're using soft then a 3/8" compression fitting will be too big. Just take what you have with you to the hardware store and piece it together right there. You'll definately want a ball valve in there somewhere to easily regulate the flow.. remember no more (preferably far less in my experience) than 1 quart per minute.
While Palmer does say that you could siphon it out.. I think that would be a pain in the arse! You definately want a ball valve somehow mounted to the bottom of the tun.
Here's how you attach the copper tube to the bulkhead:
you'll need a threaded adapter (maybe $2 at most) - it'll have a compression fitting on one side and threads on the other that will screw into your 3/8" ball valve (about $6). Make sure the compression fitting actually fits your copper tube - don't go by the size listed. In my experience the sizes refer to the diameter of hard copper pipe, if you're using soft then a 3/8" compression fitting will be too big. Just take what you have with you to the hardware store and piece it together right there. You'll definately want a ball valve in there somewhere to easily regulate the flow.. remember no more (preferably far less in my experience) than 1 quart per minute.
While Palmer does say that you could siphon it out.. I think that would be a pain in the arse! You definately want a ball valve somehow mounted to the bottom of the tun.
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