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lespaul23

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I want to make a extract brew and have some ingredients laying around. I have 6.6lbs of generic amber ale extract, 1.5lbs of 2 row and 2 oz's of cascade hops. For yeast I have some safeale 05 and white labs American ale. I want to make something with what I have. I am willing to get a few things but don't want to spend to much.

I want to make something with a high gravity. I was thinking like a double IPA but less hoppieness, but with ale. How do u think it would come out with say 3-4lbs more LME and maybe and 1-2lbs DME. Using 2 oz's Magnum for bittering and cascade for maybe 15min and finishing with a starter of white labs American ale yeast and maybe some other type of grians? Any suggestions? I want to make something strong... :mug:

Hopefully I'm not to vague, and thanks for any info.
 
Sounds like you could do just that...

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: LesPaul23 IPA
Brewer: LesPaul23 - HBT
Asst Brewer:
Style: Imperial IPA
TYPE: Extract
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.80 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.25 gal
Estimated OG: 1.085 SG
Estimated Color: 13.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 78.6 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 0.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
2.00 lb Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 1 15.9 %
6.60 lb Amber Liquid Extract (12.5 SRM) Extract 2 52.4 %
4.00 lb Amber Liquid Extract (12.5 SRM) Extract 3 31.7 %
2.00 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 70.6 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 5 6.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 2.0 min Hop 6 1.2 IBUs
2.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 7 -

If you want something with more hop aroma, throw some more Cascade in at flame out, and/or dryhop with a few ounces. I would use 2 pkts of US-05 for a big beer like, this or make a starter.

Keep fermentation temps cool for the first 4-5 days...62-65-F, then let it raise slowly to 70-F. It may take longer to ferment out, so let it sit for at least 3 weeks. You want to get your FG down, and clean-up all the diacetyl, etc.

Good luck!
--LexusChris
 
Thanks that sounds great! I never used beersmith before, I'll have to check it out.
 
Haven't done a mini mash yet. I know the 2 row is not gonna do much but it came with one of my extract kits so I figured I'd throw it in just for some more color even. It's only like a pound and a half.

Thanks though ill think about it.
 
"Throwing in" or briefly and recklessly steeping 1-1/2 lbs. of 2-row for an extract beer will do more harm than good by adding unwanted starch to your wort instead of a decent conversion of fermentable sugars. The taste will be off and the clarity will be hazy.

You must mash it.
 
"Throwing in" or briefly and recklessly steeping 1-1/2 lbs. of 2-row for an extract beer will do more harm than good by adding unwanted starch to your wort instead of a decent conversion of fermentable sugars. The taste will be off and the clarity will be hazy.

You must mash it.

I'm sure your right, I have to learn more about mini mashes. If it's bad to put it in, why would 2-row come with a extract kit? Just curious. I'm confused I thought you were supposed to steep grains? Is it just with 2-row?
 
The only process difference between mashing and steeping is how much you care about the temperature.

"Steep" the 2-row in 2-3 quarts of water at 154°F for half an hour or more and you've mashed it. It's ok if the temperature drops down into the upper 140s, but if it looks like it's dropping too fast, add some hot water to keep it around 150.
 
The only process difference between mashing and steeping is how much you care about the temperature.

And time... And proper water to grain ratios... And the amount of diastatic power the particular grain has... And how you can't just mash low diastatic malt without a good portion of enzyme rich, high diastatic base malt.

So it's not only about temperature. But I guess mashing can loosely be described as a very, very strict type of steep.
 
Thanks guys but I'm still a little shakey as to why I should not steep grains in this extract recipe. I thought doing so was going to add body and good flavor so it's not just malt I taste. Do all extract brews taste starchy bc your not mashing? Please help me understand why I need to mash in this recipe but not the extract kit that came with the 2-row?
 
With the 1-1/2 lbs. of 2-row included, the kit you have is a Partial Mash kit, not an Extract kit. Unconverted, starchy base malt needs to be mashed. Usually Extract kits contain DME/LME, some crystal, and maybe some sugar. That's it for the fermentables. None of that needs to be mashed. Crystal is steeped.

Extract beers do not usually have a problem in terms of "body"... especially Amber extract. It's riddled with a slew of various malts. And the pre-determined mash temperature that the maltster used to create the extract was probably around 153-156 F anyway.

Mashing something like 40% 2-row with 60% extra light extract can benefit your beer because you now have control over some of that mash temp. At 40% of the grist, this can help to make your beer slightly more fermentable if you choose to mash it at say 147 F. The flavor is usually the same since they are made from the same product. Unless you are mashing with English 2-row and using American extract, or vice versa... Then the flavor will be slightly different.

The flavor complexity of the mashed malt will be even more apparent if you're using a portion of Munich, Victory, Vienna, or the like. Again, you can make it easier and get some Munich LME, but the downside is that you still have no control over the mash temp. Low mash temps. are critical when it comes to attaining dryness and fermentability of pale, hoppy ales. You'll be hard-pressed to get an Extract IPA under 1.015 FG.
 
Thank you, I guess I just figured it was a extract kit bc it came with a starter package brewing kit I got. In the recipe kit I got 6.6lbs of lme and 1lbs of 2 row along with yeast and 1.5oz of cascade hops.

How can u tell it's a mini mash kit? Is it bc it comes with crystal grains? And the last question I think I have for now is how do you know what grains to steep and what grains to mash?

Thanks a lot for all the info, I appreciate it.
 
And time... And proper water to grain ratios... And the amount of diastatic power the particular grain has... And how you can't just mash low diastatic malt without a good portion of enzyme rich, high diastatic base malt.

So it's not only about temperature. But I guess mashing can loosely be described as a very, very strict type of steep.

You're making it sound a lot more complicated than it is, especially for the purposes of getting something other than starch out of a pound and a half of 2-row in an otherwise extract batch. You've got about a 15°F window where conversion of some sort will occur, and in this case you don't care much about controlling the fermentability because it's such a small fraction of the "grain" (really, malt extract) bill.

In terms of process, ok, add using a reasonable ratio (i.e., somewhere between 1 and 2 quarts per pound), so there are two differences. (Diastatic power concerns are recipe planning issues, not "process" differences.) Most steeps are half an hour or so, which will give you nearly complete conversion in most cases.
 
You're making it sound a lot more complicated than it is

You do realize that other new brewers will be reading this thread, and seeing your information about how mashing is exactly the same as steeping except for how much you care about the temperature, and possibly believing that's all there is to it?

Just wanted to point out the falsities of that statement for anyone truly interested in brewing via partial mash or all grain... and possibly using a bit more than a 1-1/2 lbs. of base malt, or thinking they can just mash something like Oats on it's own with no base malt.

You've got about a 15°F window where conversion of some sort will occur

Key term: "conversion of some sort"... that could be 50% conversion, leaving you with 50% starch.

6.6 lbs. Extract + 1.5 lbs. 2-row = 8.1 lbs. total fermentables. That is approx. 19% 2-row... I would say that is a decent amount of 2-row to mash.
 
I know the kit instructions that come with recipies r more or less useless but they said to steep the 2 row for 10min and discard. It didn't say anywhere this was a partial mash kit. I guess another reason I thought it was a extract kit is bc it only came with 1 lb of grain and 6.6 lbs of lme.

How do I learn what to steep and what to mash?
 
You'll find that most basic kit instructions do a piss poor job of explaining the best brewing processes to follow. They're usually quite basic.

Most of the darker grains, like chocolate, carafa, brown, black, etc. can be steeped... along with anything with cara- in front of it, or crystal. Base malt should be mashed. Homebrewer supply shops and online stores make a clear distinction between base malt and specialty grains. There are also a number of excel spreadsheets, PDFs, etc. floating around on the net which tell you what malts requires a mash, and which do not.

Here's one:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Malts_Chart
 
Thanks I'll look into it. I appreciate the help. I'm still a little confused but I'll see what I can figure out b4 wasting anyone's time.

Thanks!
 
You do realize that other new brewers will be reading this thread, and seeing your information about how mashing is exactly the same as steeping except for how much you care about the temperature, and possibly believing that's all there is to it?

Just wanted to point out the falsities of that statement for anyone truly interested in brewing via partial mash or all grain... and possibly using a bit more than a 1-1/2 lbs. of base malt, or thinking they can just mash something like Oats on it's own with no base malt.



Key term: "conversion of some sort"... that could be 50% conversion, leaving you with 50% starch.

6.6 lbs. Extract + 1.5 lbs. 2-row = 8.1 lbs. total fermentables. That is approx. 19% 2-row... I would say that is a decent amount of 2-row to mash.

Bob, if you insist that it's necessary to give a full treatise on the details of mashing every time you write about it, have fun with that.

As for my comments, I stand by them. If you can explain how steeping his 2-row in 2-3 quarts of 150-154°F water for 30 minutes differs from mashing, please do so. Otherwise, my statement is simply not false.

Good luck with your crusade on behalf of new brewers.
 
I think I added some unintended confusion in this thread, sorry. The 1lb bag of grains I have says crystal on it but it also says 2 row. That's what I was getting confused by. I'm supposed to steep crystal but mash 2 row? Right? Does this mean this bag has a mix of crystal and 2 row? I can post a pic if this needs to be seen.

Thanks again for all the info guys.
 
zeg, it's okay if you didn't know what mashing was fully defined as. Just say so. No need to stand behind your false statement that the only factor is temperature control.
 
To bob and zeg,

Lol, have a beer an relax. We r all here to learn and teach. No matter how much we know, we can always learn more.

I appreciate the help from both of you, but your quoting each other to prove your own point and not really helping the OP (me) lol. I know you want to post the proper info so you don't mislead others.

I would really like if someone can help me with my question in post #19

I think I have a extract kit but was told it's a partial mash kit but might have giving wrong info due to being a noob.

Sorry for the confusion.


Thanks for anyone who can help me understand this.
 
With 19% 2-row and the rest Extract and Crystal malt, you have a Partial Mash kit. Nothing zeg says to the contrary will change that fact.

You can mash the 2-row with the Crystal malt to simplify things. They don't necessarily need to be mashed and steeped seperately.
 
lespaul23 said:
To bob and zeg,

Lol, have a beer an relax. We r all here to learn and teach. No matter how much we know, we can always learn more.

I appreciate the help from both of you, but your quoting each other to prove your own point and not really helping the OP (me) lol. I know you want to post the proper info so you don't mislead others.

I would really like if someone can help me with my question in post #19

I think I have a extract kit but was told it's a partial mash kit but might have giving wrong info due to being a noob.

Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks for anyone who can help me understand this.

What exactly does the bag say? Most caramel/crystal malt bags ive seen say something like "caramel 60L 2-row malt". If thats the case here, thats definitely a crystal malt and does not have to be mashed.
 
What exactly does the bag say? Most caramel/crystal malt bags ive seen say something like "caramel 60L 2-row malt". If thats the case here, thats definitely a crystal malt and does not have to be mashed.

There is also 2-row included.
 
True, but I've never heard a kit refer to Crystal 60 as 2-row.

However, I see what you're saying because of this statement...

The 1lb bag of grains I have says crystal on it but it also says 2 row.

I'm confused... because first the OP said he had 1.5 lbs. of 2-row and no crystal. Then he said he had only 1 lb. 2-row and a bit of crystal. He never said it was Crystal 60 either.
 
bobbrews said:
True, but I've never heard a kit refer to Crystal 60 as 2-row.

However I see what you're saying because of this statement...

I'm confused... because first the OP said he had 1.5 lbs. of 2-row and no crystal. Then he said he had only 1 lb. 2-row and a bit of crystal. He never said it was Crystal 60 either.

My lhbs has crystal malt bag that say 2row, so im thinking the op just saw that and got confused, i could be wrong though
 
Thanks guys and sorry for the confusion. I thought it was 1.5lbs but it's just 1lb. I will post a pic in a second. I don't know my grains yet, but it does say 2 row but when bob said you don't have to mash crystal I got confused bc it says crystal.

Pic will be up in a min.

Thanks.
 
Once again sorry, I saw 2 row and figured it was a type of crystal. I have to Learn my grains.

c58028acd89cb68a1d98d1314ec805c9b0e22fb8.jpg
 
lespaul23 said:
Once again sorry, I saw 2 row and figured it was a type of crystal. Minded to Lear my grains.

Right, thats definitely a crystal malt. Dont worry at all about mashing, just steep as per the instructions.
 
but when bob said you don't have to mash crystal I got confused bc it says crystal.

You're right. I never said that you must mash crystal. I said you have to mash 2-row. Unfortunately, the label here can mislead new brewers. Originally, YOU said you had 2-row. Crystal wasn't mentioned until the 2nd page of the thread.

2-row is an enzyme rich base malt that must be mashed. Crystal is derived from a 2-row base. It it turned into Crystal by the maltster, which makes it toasty and rich with caramel flavors.

That picture is medium British crystal. It has no starch. It only requires a steep.
 
Bob read the quote. I never said you told me to mash crystal I said you told me I don't have to. That's where I got confused. Bc everyone said mash 2 row and steep crystal but this bag says crystal and 2 row. Not good for a beginner.

I appreciate all the help and sorry for misleading anybody. I have a lot to learn.

Ps sorry for not mentioning crystal at first. I thought 2 row was a kind of crystal...
 
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