Who Has Experience With Wyeast 1388 - Belgian Strong Ale?

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CaptYesterday

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I'm worried about a brew that I am fermenting with Wyeast 1388 and had some questions about the yeast strain.

Little background info:

I brewed a Golden Ale this past saturday and got 5.5 gallons of wort with an OG of 1.082 which I chilled to 64 F. Mash temp was 148 for 90 minutes and I know that my thermometer is accurate.

I pitched a nice healthy starter of Wyeast 1388 that had been crashed in the fridge for about 8-9 hours. This was around 9 PM.

Then next morning, about 10 hours later I had some noticeable yeast activity, and full blown fermentation by sunday night with an inch of krausen and a temp of 70 F. Last night (monday) I noticed that the krausen was starting to fall, and today when I got home from work the krausen had completely fallen back into the beer leaving only clusters of small bubbles on the surface. The airlock is still bubbling every 2-3 seconds, but the gravity is only at 1.042, which places it at the halfway mark.
The current fermenting tmep is about 80 F.
Is this normal to have such rapid rise and fall of the krausen with this yeast or am I in trouble because the krausen is done after only 3 days of fermentation? I was planning on adding some sugar to dry the beer out after the krausen fell, but I feel like there are still way too many malt sugars left to toss in some cane sugar.

Any thoughts/suggestions?
 
I haven't had experience with this specific yeast, but this has happened with my last two big Belgian batches with Belgian yeast strains. Did you have sugar in the boil? I'm suspecting that was the cause behind my batches stalling out after an initially active fermentation.

In both cases I had to repitch and wait several weeks for it to slowly finish.

I'll definitely try incremental feeding next time I do a high gravity Belgian ale.
 
No sugar was used in the boil. I was planning on adding sugar after high krausen, but I'm not going to do it when the yeast are only halfway through the maltose.

The fermentation still appears to be going strong. I can actually see an induced current in the bubbles in the top of the beer, its just that there is no krausen left and this puzzles me.
 
For what it's worth, my first high gravity Belgian went from 1.040 to 1.010 after the krausen settled. I think mine looked the same as you described: small bubbles rising up to the surface, the yeast gently swirling around inside and no krausen on top.
 
This yeast strain behaved exactly the same for me. It fermented like the world was coming to an end for a few days, and then it took 4 weeks to hit FG. It eventually did finish at 1.014 from 1.090, but it was very slow to finish even at 80*F.
 
Ok, I feel slightly better now. I guess I was just expecting the same over the top fermentation that the Trappist High Gravity yeast gave me.

Guess, I'll toss a little DAP in with the sugar when I add it just to be on the safe side.
 
Just 3 weeks ago I brewed a batch of Belgian Blonde Ale (1.072)using this yeast. I mashed at 152F. Pitched a 1L starter at 68F. As fermentation goes it didn't start awfully strong for me but when it did it was fairly robust. Yesterday I did a FG reading and got 1.009. Every now and then if I look long enough I will get a bubble in the airlock which means the yeast are still chomping on what's left. I am quite pleased with the attenuation of the yeast though I did add a 1lb of candy sugar to my boil which helps a lot. My advice would be to wait it out at least 3 weeks in the primary before doing anything. Good Luck.
 
Took another sample, gravity is now 1.030. This beer now tastes like pineapple and pear. I hope thats a normal ester profile for this yeast.

Either way, its still chugging along.
 
I Brewed a Strong Golden with this yeast about 4 months ago; when I tasted it 2 months ago -- strong bananas. It's been carbed sitting in a keg in my garage the last 2 months; hoping it has cleaned up. Recipe called for 6 months total.
 
Necro post here - sorry

How did that brew finally turn out?

I've never brewed with 1388 before, but plan to soon.

Just got my belated Birthday gift - ingredient kits for A golden strong including 1388 yeast pack (also got Czeck Pils and Bavarian Hefe kits! - score for having good friends!)

Anyway, was reading through "how to brew like a monk" and thought my kit would be much like Duvel, though OG 1.082 on this NB kit vs 1.069 for Duvel. (How does Duvel get 93% apparent attenuation!!!)

Looks like Redalert hit 1.009 close to Duvel FG of 1.006 with 1388.

I guess I'm rambling at this point, but to re-iterate, I was wondering how the brew in question with the fallen Krausen turned out.

Also wanted to get some advice on my planned 1388 recipe (the NB Golden Strong Ale Kit)

NB recommended Mash is 20 min @ 122; 30 min @ 149; 30 min @ 158; 10 min @ 170
HTBLAM recommends fermentation for Duvel: start at 61-64, rise to 77-84 'F for 5 days Primary, then secondary at 27' F for 3 weeks, then bottle (adding fresh yeast and sugar to 4.25 Vol CO2), and rest 10-14 days at 75' F, then cellar for 6 weeks at 41 'F.

TD
 
Recently brewed a Belgian dark strong ale. From 1.092 I had steady fermentation for a week, then it dropped off and took another week to get to 1.024. I wanted it to end around 1.022 so I racked it over. It took another week to get down to 1.022 but has since kept going. Now, 45 days later it has finally finished at 1.016, well below my target. Either way it has still come along nicely, developing some dried cherry, rum and bubblegum flavors as well as a nice alcohol kick from the 9.9% it developed into. 1388 is definitely all about slow and low, but damn it's good!
 
I'm hoping my yeast revives like I did this thread. :D

I brewed the Pink Elephant clone and split it into 2 buckets. OG was 1.072 and one bucket is still going down in gravity. After 8 days it's down to 1.015 or so. The other bucket apparently was cooler and it's stuck at 1.020. I mashed at 148 for 90 minutes and there is a good amount of corn sugar in there, so it should finish pretty dry at like 1.005 or something. I'm hoping that if I warm up the stuck fermenter that it starts back up again.
 
Update: I put my two fermenters in the furnace room on top of my clothes dryer and closed the door. The furnace brought the beer up to 78 degrees over a 24 hour period, and the running dryer vibrated the yeast enough to wake them up and let them finish fairly quickly. They are both down to 1.005 only 3 days later.
 
I used this yeast for a scaldis clone 2 weeks ago. OG was 1.122. It looked slow from the start and after 2 weeks it still fermenting but slowly. Took a grav reading yesterday and its down to 1.07, wort tastes really sweet still. I'm fermenting at a solid 63, so I figure its going to go pretty slowly. I racked to secondary and fermentation seems to all but have stopped. I'm going to check it in a week and see what the deal is. I'm hopping I didn't under-pitch but figure I might need to re-pitch. Recipe called for 2 lbs of candi clear, which I put in at flame out, perhaps I should have staggered it out more.. First go at a high ABV so we'll see...
 
I used this yeast for a scaldis clone 2 weeks ago. OG was 1.122. It looked slow from the start and after 2 weeks it still fermenting but slowly. Took a grav reading yesterday and its down to 1.07, wort tastes really sweet still. I'm fermenting at a solid 63, so I figure its going to go pretty slowly. I racked to secondary and fermentation seems to all but have stopped. I'm going to check it in a week and see what the deal is. I'm hopping I didn't under-pitch but figure I might need to re-pitch. Recipe called for 2 lbs of candi clear, which I put in at flame out, perhaps I should have staggered it out more.. First go at a high ABV so we'll see...

Why did you choose to ferment at 63*?
 
I used this yeast for a scaldis clone 2 weeks ago. OG was 1.122. It looked slow from the start and after 2 weeks it still fermenting but slowly. Took a grav reading yesterday and its down to 1.07, wort tastes really sweet still. I'm fermenting at a solid 63, so I figure its going to go pretty slowly. I racked to secondary and fermentation seems to all but have stopped. I'm going to check it in a week and see what the deal is. I'm hopping I didn't under-pitch but figure I might need to re-pitch. Recipe called for 2 lbs of candi clear, which I put in at flame out, perhaps I should have staggered it out more.. First go at a high ABV so we'll see...

Why would you rack it if it wasn't even close to done?
 
I have a small 1 bedroom apartment with a full basement. 63 is the temp of the basement and doesn't fluctuate at all. Rest of the apartment fluctuates between 55 and 70 depending on if the girlfriend is over.

As far as racking it, from what I've read its bad to leave it sitting on the trub for more than 14 days, you run the risk of autolyze. Now i think I effed it up and should have rousted it. feck.
 
This is a very timely thread for me as I'm having the same issue. I brewed an extract Belgian Golden Strong with 2 lbs of candi sugar about 9 days ago. OG 1.075 and had a fairly vigorous fermentation going for about 3 days. Took a gravity reading 2 days ago and was only down to 1.042. Temps have been steady around 68-70F.

Is the consensus to give the fermentor a good shake and keep temps up?
 
Belgian yeasts can take some time to finish.

Here is a good quote from Brew Like a Monk.....

"Let the fermentation finish, perhaps at a higher temperature. It often takes as long to get the last few points of attenuation as it does for the first 80%."

Belgians are not for the impatient.

As far as racking it, from what I've read its bad to leave it sitting on the trub for more than 14 days, you run the risk of autolyze.

and there is absolutely no problem leaving them in the primary for a long time. I usually go about 6 weeks in the primary before checking mine.
 
This strain worked hard for me for 3-4 days and then slowed way down but kept hugging along. Try and warm the beer up to 75 degrees to speed it up.
 
My Number 8 kit from NB with this yeast went about halfway on the first night, and the krausen dropped to nothing after about two days. Then, a second, creamy white krausen formed and it dropped down to FG in another day or two (it freaked me out, I thought it was infected, but only because I was paranoid about my first $50+ kit getting messed up...). I kept mine in an enclosed water bath at 70*F; max temperature of the fermentation was around 74*F. It's in secondary now and the alcohol flavor is going away and its forming a nice spicy flavor. Raisin and currant on the nose with a ton of malt and a nice smooth finish.
 
I just brewed a BGSA on Sunday w/3lbs of dextrose... OG 1.072.

Strong fermentation Sunday night through to Monday night. Looked at it this morning (Tuesday) and the Krausen has fallen. So i got on here and ran across this thread.

So far it seems that this is pretty typical of this yeast strain. (Wyeast 1388)

I'm not even going to take a gravity reading... Just let it ride for another week or so. It smells awesome...
 
I thought I should bring this thread back from the dead with some new revelations.

This yeast needs lots of temperature fine tuning and attention. I made a Belgian Golden Strong with it, OG of 1.090 and a 1.6L yeast starter. It took off in less than 12 hours and I kept the fermenter (fridge with a STC-1000 and 30w heater wrap placed in fridge) @ 68°F for 3 days after visible krausen. Ramp up to 75 (ramp up over 3 days) and hold for 10 days. It started to slow down right before I ramped up and then it picked back up.

I think the most issues people are having are with inadequate yeast cell counts (old yeast/small starters) or waiting too long to increase temperatures. The note below is very relevant:

"Let the fermentation finish, perhaps at a higher temperature. It often takes as long to get the last few points of attenuation as it does for the first 80%."
 
I recently tried Affligem Blond and would like to brew something similar. I'm told 1388 is a good choice but I'm unsure since I hear descriptions of banana and bubblegum (hefe-like?) that I don't get from Affligem. A few questions...

1) I hear conflicting advice about mash temp with belgians. Mash high when using 10%ish simple sugar to avoid thin beer, OR mash low to get it dry and crisp. Which is correct?
2) Realistic attenuation for 1388? Wyeast says 74-78, but I hear 80% or more (I'm assuming low mash).
3) I'd like to avoid stalling or slow fermentation. Is the consensus that adequate pitch rate and steadily ramping up to mid 70s should achieve FG in 3-4 weeks?
4) Again on fermentation, is it okay to add my 8-10% table sugar to the boil, or should I wait until after high krausen? I'm including recipe below for reference.
5) For those that know Affligem, is 1388 the best choice or should I use a different WY strain? Thanks in advance folks.

BELGIAN BLONDE RECIPE (6.5-7% abv)
75% Pils (may sub pale)
15% Munich
10% Table Sugar
Hallertauer @ 60 & 15. 25 IBU
1388 (148F mash?)
 
I recently tried Affligem Blond and would like to brew something similar. I'm told 1388 is a good choice but I'm unsure since I hear descriptions of banana and bubblegum (hefe-like?) that I don't get from Affligem. A few questions...

1) I hear conflicting advice about mash temp with belgians. Mash high when using 10%ish simple sugar to avoid thin beer, OR mash low to get it dry and crisp. Which is correct?
2) Realistic attenuation for 1388? Wyeast says 74-78, but I hear 80% or more (I'm assuming low mash).
3) I'd like to avoid stalling or slow fermentation. Is the consensus that adequate pitch rate and steadily ramping up to mid 70s should achieve FG in 3-4 weeks?
4) Again on fermentation, is it okay to add my 8-10% table sugar to the boil, or should I wait until after high krausen? I'm including recipe below for reference.
5) For those that know Affligem, is 1388 the best choice or should I use a different WY strain? Thanks in advance folks.

BELGIAN BLONDE RECIPE (6.5-7% abv)
75% Pils (may sub pale)
15% Munich
10% Table Sugar
Hallertauer @ 60 & 15. 25 IBU
1388 (148F mash?)

For Belgians mash low. This will dry the beer out and make it "more digestable" as the Belgians would say. No need to mash high even with using sugar.

It will usually attenuate more than expected, especially if you mashed low.

Good pitch rates, aeration with oxygen before pitching and good temp control and the fermention should easily finish in 3-4 weeks. I usually leave it longer just because Belgians tend to do better with some age, so it just easy to leave it for a couple extra weeks in the feremter.

You can add the sugar to the boil if you made a big enough starter. Your recipe shows only 6.5-7% abv so no problem adding it at the end of the boil. For big, high gravity brews, sometimes adding after a few days of fermentation can help the beer attenuate a little better. But again even then with a big starter and good aeration it can be added to the boil. I have done it both ways.

I am not sure if 1388 is the yeast Affligem uses, but I like it a lot in a tripel so you should get a nice brew.
 
For Belgians mash low. This will dry the beer out and make it "more digestable" as the Belgians would say. No need to mash high even with using sugar.

It will usually attenuate more than expected, especially if you mashed low.

Good pitch rates, aeration with oxygen before pitching and good temp control and the fermention should easily finish in 3-4 weeks. I usually leave it longer just because Belgians tend to do better with some age, so it just easy to leave it for a couple extra weeks in the feremter.

You can add the sugar to the boil if you made a big enough starter. Your recipe shows only 6.5-7% abv so no problem adding it at the end of the boil. For big, high gravity brews, sometimes adding after a few days of fermentation can help the beer attenuate a little better. But again even then with a big starter and good aeration it can be added to the boil. I have done it both ways.

I am not sure if 1388 is the yeast Affligem uses, but I like it a lot in a tripel so you should get a nice brew.

Awesome, thanks for clearing that up for me beergolf. Off to the LHBS!
 
Awesome, thanks for clearing that up for me beergolf. Off to the LHBS!

I forgot to metion. Pitch in the mid 60's. Hold it there for a day or two then slowly ramp up the temp to the mid-70's. Once fermentation slows the temp will try to go down. Keep it from dropping. So just add heat slowly as it gets done. iF the temp drops it will want to stall. If you keep the temp up it will finish with no problem.
 
I forgot to metion. Pitch in the mid 60's. Hold it there for a day or two then slowly ramp up the temp. Once fermentation slows the temp will try to go down. Keep it from dropping. So just add heat slowly as it gets done. iF the temp drops it will want to stall. If you keep the temp up it will finish with no problem.

Sounds good. Thanks.
 
1388 is known to stall, Wyeast even states so on their website. I did a BGSA with an OG of 1.092 and it stalled at 1.060 after 2 weeks. I aerated and pitched more yeast and it still took 4 weeks (at 74 degrees) to an FG of 1.020. I get banana every time I drink it.

Some of this was undoubtedly self inflicted as I had it at 68 degrees for the time prior to it stalling. I probably under-pitched it too right from the beginning.

I think it is crucial that you have some sort of temperature control during fermentations using this style of yeast. I did one last year in the early fall and had no issues because the temp was up. Because of this, I have built a fermentation chamber. Drink beer and learn. Hope you all have success in the
future.
 
Fun fact, this yeast does much better at higher temperatures. If you go to white labs website they have a document for what their belgian yeasts do at different temperatures. It's buried deep, here's a link:

http://www.whitelabs.com/files/belgianchart_0.pdf

Next time I brew a Belgian golden with this yeast or it's White Labs equivalent WLP570, I'll probably start at 66 and let it free rise to 74 and then hold it there. Also, sufficient yeast count and a step infusion mash 145-148 for 45 minutes then 152-155°F for 20 minutes
 
Fun fact, this yeast does much better at higher temperatures. If you go to white labs website they have a document for what their belgian yeasts do at different temperatures. It's buried deep, here's a link:

http://www.whitelabs.com/files/belgianchart_0.pdf

Next time I brew a Belgian golden with this yeast or it's White Labs equivalent WLP570, I'll probably start at 66 and let it free rise to 74 and then hold it there. Also, sufficient yeast count and a step infusion mash 145-148 for 45 minutes then 152-155°F for 20 minutes

Fun Fact - EVERY yeast does "better" at high temperatures. Some just produce tasty flavors the hotter they are, some make nasty stuff
 
After the first debacle, I brewed a small golden ale (1.042 OG) with the Whitle Labs version as a starter for another Golden strong.

I washed the yeast from the small one and will make 2 starters from that for the pitch in this new batch. That plus the added control of my chamber should do the trick.
 
Fun Fact - EVERY yeast does "better" at high temperatures. Some just produce tasty flavors the hotter they are, some make nasty stuff

Yep, that chart explains that a little further. This yeast produced better flavors in that upper range. I fermented in the low range and got some undesirable phenols last time. My wife liked it and apparently everyone else who tried it does, but coupled with the excess residual sweetness, I don't like how it turned out much.
 
I am going to assemble the starter(s) this evening and brew Sat or Sun. Picked up what I needed from my LHS last night.

Am curious as to why to cold (66°). Does the yeast multiply better at low temp?
 
Yep, that chart explains that a little further. This yeast produced better flavors in that upper range. I fermented in the low range and got some undesirable phenols last time. My wife liked it and apparently everyone else who tried it does, but coupled with the excess residual sweetness, I don't like how it turned out much.

Just be very careful of the higher temps. I would not attemp to start it out at the upper temp range. The fermentation will take off fast and create even higer temps, which will be difficult to control. If it gets out of control and gets too hot too fast, then you might as well call NASA and ask them if they want some rocket fuel.

I know this because when I first started brewing I read the often repeated " Belgian yeasts like it hot" I started a brew at 75 and when it took off ( and it took of fast) it got into the 80's befoe I could cool it down. Rocket fuel.

After brewing tons of Belgians I have found that the best way to handle them is to pitch at the lower end of the yeast recommended temp, hold it there for a couple of days and then slowly ramp it up to the upper end of the temp range. This gives the best flavor and the yeast will finish without stalling.

Am curious as to why to cold (66°). Does the yeast multiply better at low temp?

To answer your question. If you start at 66 and then let fermentation start. it is easier to control the temps without them getting out of control. Start high and the heat generated by fermentation may get the temp up faster than your fermentation chamber can cool it. If it gets too hot too fast, you run the risk of fusels.
 
I started it off at 67° for the first 2 days. I bumped it to 69° on Wed and plan on bumping it to 71° tomorrow. It is pretty active but I did not need to put a blow-off tube on it. My OG was 1.070 so it is going to take a few days. What is a good temp to stop the ramp-up?
 
Sorry to revitalize an older thread but I wanted to share my experience with this yeast. I brewed a Belgian Golden Strong eleven days ago. OG was 1.076 with 3 lbs of Belgian Candi sugar added at flameout of boil. Reading about this yeast on various threads I went with a bigger starter. Utilizing the Brewer's Friend yeast starter calculator I boiled 8.1 oz. of DME in 4L of water and sat it on my Maelstrom stirplate for 2 days before to come to an estimated cell count of 409 billion cells. I always cold crash and decant my starters at least 24 hours in advance of pitching. One thing I did notice was after 36 hours in the fridge, this is the only strain I used that did not appear to almost completely flocculate and drop out of solution, so I decanted most, stirred it up, and pitched about 0.5 liters of starter solution in the beer. I did not oxygenate but I aerated the crap out of it with a whirlpool wand attached to a drill and dumped it in the fermenter. I've gradually increased temp from 64°F up to 80°F two days ago. It's been eleven days and in that time blow-off activity has almost completely resided to maybe a bubble every 5 minutes or so. I pulled a sample today and it read 1.002, which comes out to a little over 97% attenuation. Definitely getting alot of Belgian like esters from it with the most prominent being banana. Will let it sit for the next 2.5 weeks to see how it tastes from there before deciding to keg or not.
 
Recently brewed a Belgian dark strong ale. ...... 1388 is definitely all about slow and low, but damn it's good!


I'm brewing an Affligem Blonde clone today using this yeast, and am already eyeing what I want to pitch the yeast cake into next. 1388 is Affligem's yeast (or at least what they are purported to use), but Affligem does not have a Quad/BDSA, so I'm curious... how did your Quad turn out, if you can remember?? What did you like/dislike about it?

I've done both a Quad and a Tripel with WY1214, but it came out way more complex and intensely estery than I cared for, so I'm excited to give this yeast a whirl.

Have you ever brewed a quad with WY3522? Has anyone? I've also brewed Blonde, Dubbel, Tripel with that one, with fantastic results, but never a BDSA/Quad...

If the 1388 Quad was good, would you care to post up your recipe and process?


Many thanks :)
 
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