Beefing up the grain bill to account for efficiency problems

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adamjackson

adamjackson

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So, I have a few upcoming batches that I simply can't afford to miss my OG mark. One, an imperial stout, and a Belgian Dubbel and a Hefeweizen.

Generally, if I'm trying to brew an all grain beer with an expected OG of 1.042-1.052, I'll usually come in around 1.030.

So I want to beef things up. Here are the 3 beers I'm brewing this week:

Belgian Dubbel: 9 Lbs of Domestic 2-row, 8 oz. Caramel 40, 8 oz. Carapils, 1 Lb of candi sugar, styrian golding hops, Hallertau aroma hops, Expected OG 1.049-1.053

hefeweizen: 5 lbs. Domestic 2-Row, 4 lbs. Wheat, 8 oz. Carapils, 2 lbs. Clover honey, 2 oz. of hops. Expected OG: 1.054-1.058

Imperial Stout: 18 lbs. Domestic 2-Row barley, 12 oz. Chocolate Malt, 4 oz. Caramel 120°L, 12 oz. Roasted Barley, 4 oz. of hops, Expected OG: 1.082-1.086


Basically, I'd like to increase the grain bill to account for my efficiency loss. I imagine that I'm somewhere in the 70th percentile range. Does that mean add 30% of everything I listed above to account for this?

====

For the stout, I'd actually like to "go bigger" But If I just buy a bunch of 2-row, the other malts will not be as prominent so I need to increase everything evenly by percentages, right?

Thanks for the help. i'm going to hit the LHBS today and add a bunch of grain so I can do a better job hitting my mark on these.
 
adamjackson said:
So, I have a few upcoming batches that I simply can't afford to miss my OG mark. One, an imperial stout, and a Belgian Dubbel and a Hefeweizen.

Generally, if I'm trying to brew an all grain beer with an expected OG of 1.042-1.052, I'll usually come in around 1.030.

So I want to beef things up. Here are the 3 beers I'm brewing this week:

Belgian Dubbel: 9 Lbs of Domestic 2-row, 8 oz. Caramel 40, 8 oz. Carapils, 1 Lb of candi sugar, styrian golding hops, Hallertau aroma hops, Expected OG 1.049-1.053

hefeweizen: 5 lbs. Domestic 2-Row, 4 lbs. Wheat, 8 oz. Carapils, 2 lbs. Clover honey, 2 oz. of hops. Expected OG: 1.054-1.058

Imperial Stout: 18 lbs. Domestic 2-Row barley, 12 oz. Chocolate Malt, 4 oz. Caramel 120°L, 12 oz. Roasted Barley, 4 oz. of hops, Expected OG: 1.082-1.086

Basically, I'd like to increase the grain bill to account for my efficiency loss. I imagine that I'm somewhere in the 70th percentile range. Does that mean add 30% of everything I listed above to account for this?

====

For the stout, I'd actually like to "go bigger" But If I just buy a bunch of 2-row, the other malts will not be as prominent so I need to increase everything evenly by percentages, right?

Thanks for the help. i'm going to hit the LHBS today and add a bunch of grain so I can do a better job hitting my mark on these.
Click to expand...

If you increase 30% that would give you 100% efficiency. Which for
Belgian dubbel would give you around 1.070
To hit that with your current efficiency you'd need
12Lb5oz. Of 2 row, 11oz caramel 40, 11oz carapils, 1Lb6oz of candi sugar.

For hefeweizen.
6lb 10oz. 2row, 5lb5oz. Wheat, 10.6oz. Carapils, 2lb11oz honey

For imperial stout
21lb13oz 2row, 14.5oz chocolate, 4.8oz caramel 120, 14.5oz roasted barley.

Not sure what adjustment to hops you'd need though but this grain bill is giving you what you would have if at 100%efficiency on the original recipe.
 
GilSwillBasementBrews said:
If you increase 30% that would give you 100% efficiency. Which for
Belgian dubbel would give you around 1.070
To hit that with your current efficiency you'd need
12Lb5oz. Of 2 row, 11oz caramel 40, 11oz carapils, 1Lb6oz of candi sugar.

For hefeweizen.
6lb 10oz. 2row, 5lb5oz. Wheat, 10.6oz. Carapils, 2lb11oz honey

For imperial stout
21lb13oz 2row, 14.5oz chocolate, 4.8oz caramel 120, 14.5oz roasted barley.

Not sure what adjustment to hops you'd need though but this grain bill is giving you what you would have if at 100%efficiency on the original recipe.
Click to expand...

Yeah, so I have to figure out how to change the hop additions. Your math certainly helps me out. I may not be able to get it all at the local store but it should help me get to my OG just a slight bit closer.

I missed my belgian wit by a bit the other day and I don't want to repeat this.
 
In BeerSmith I set the effeciency to what I anticipate getting for the recipe gravity and then adjust the ingredients proportionally until hitting that gravity.

It's similar to what you have to do with hops to get to the recipe bitterness with the % AA hops that you have.
 
AnOldUR said:
In BeerSmith I set the effeciency to what I anticipate getting for the recipe gravity and then adjust the ingredients proportionally until hitting that gravity.

It's similar to what you have to do with hops to get to the recipe bitterness with the % AA hops that you have.
Click to expand...

Maybe I should switch to Beersmith?

I feel like this stuff is way too difficult in my current software.

How do you know what your brewhouse efficiency is? I'm only on my 3rd all-grain batch so have no idea what my efficiency is it floats a bit from being .025 to .005 off from what I expect it to be.
 
Unfortunatly, because there are so many variables, it's mostly a trial and error thing, but once you know what your system and method produces, it should be pretty consistant. From there you only have to adjust up or down to account for the gravity. On my system I'll get about 80% for a beer under 1.050, 75% for beers in the 1.070 range and down to 65% for really big beers.
 
If you are brewing recipes that are calculated for the 70-75% range that is pretty typical so it seems you are getting something in the mid 60's?

Why don't you try something simple like milling your grain better or having your LHBS mill it twice. This alone will boost your efficiency into the 70's easily.

Also, if your brewing process is off then there is no guarantee that just upping the grain bill will make up for the deficiencies you are experiencing. Are you taking a pre-boil reading to evaluate your mash/lauter efficiency or just finding that your desired OG is not getting met? This would help in figuring out what part of your process is failing you. In other words, if your pre-boil is good then you are losing efficiency in your boil off and volume measurements accounting for the losses as well. If your pre-boil is off, then you are losing precious wort and extraction in the mash and that could be temp, volume, crush, etc.

IMO, it pays to evaluate these items first so you know what direction to go in and where you need improvement. Just increasing the grain bill doesn't really solve any underlying issues in the process, it's just like chasing your own tail:)
 
Also, how are you preparing your grain? Most people like to condition the grain before they mill it and all you need is about 3 or 4 oz of water in a spray bottle and spray the grain, mix it, spray, mix, until its not so dry. That way most of the husks stay in tact and just the grain gets broken. Also, what's your grain mill set at? Most use feeler guages to set it between .032 and the factory setting of .039. Of course if you buy it already crushed then you're at the mercy of your home brew store.

Another thing to think about is what kind of water to grain ratio are you using? I would go with at least 1.5 qt/lb of grain (forgive me if i'm stating the obvious but just want to be thorough) I typically shoot for 1.60 or 1.75 qt/lb and more if I'm going to be doing decoctions.

Lastly, what's your PH after about 15 to 20 minutes in the mash? Anywhere between 5.2 and 5.5 is the sweet spot.
 
adamjackson said:
Maybe I should switch to Beersmith?

I feel like this stuff is way too difficult in my current software.

How do you know what your brewhouse efficiency is? I'm only on my 3rd all-grain batch so have no idea what my efficiency is it floats a bit from being .025 to .005 off from what I expect it to be.
Click to expand...

IMO I would switch to beersmith. That would make these calculations as easy as typing in the efficiency you want/expect. You can adjust the gravity with the click of another button.
 
Mojzis said:
IMO I would switch to beersmith. That would make these calculations as easy as typing in the efficiency you want/expect. You can adjust the gravity with the click of another button.
Click to expand...

I just bought it. going to import all of my recipes from beer alchemy and go through the tutorials. The interface..there's a lot going on but I'll give it a shot.
 
It definitely gets easier the more you use it. The hardest thing for me was to get the equipment set up but keep good notes over the course of a few brews and you'll have it.
 
adamjackson said:
I have Beer Alchemy. It's not straight forward on this sort of stuff. I spent some time trying to figure it out.
Click to expand...

I used beer alchemy to edit the recipes for you. I just entered your recipe at 70% mash efficiency. Then added the 30% you were low by made 100%
So I looked at the OG at 100% mash efficiency then reset the mash efficiency for 70%. Then click on the target stats and slide the OG slider till it reads what the 100%OG Should have been. Then it adjusts the grain bill accordingly.
 
GilSwillBasementBrews said:
I used beer alchemy to edit the recipes for you. I just entered your recipe at 70% mash efficiency. Then added the 30% you were low by made 100%
So I looked at the OG at 100% mash efficiency then reset the mash efficiency for 70%. Then click on the target stats and slide the OG slider till it reads what the 100%OG Should have been. Then it adjusts the grain bill accordingly.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'm not trying to diss Beer Alchemy, just wanted something a bit more powerful.

So, I did follow the advice and bought all of the extra grain needed today and milled it a lot finer than the last batch.

====

Of note, turns out I was getting far lower efficiency on my last batch than I realized...about 45% was my efficiency on the beer I did on Sunday. That's WAY too low.
 
You really gotta read-up and study the process. There's no good excuse for a really low efficiency. The fact that you're unsure how to scale up a recipe based on efficiency is somewhat troubling to me as well. It's simple math, but the software helps, obviously. What you want to do is just keep the proportions of each grain the same (ie. if recipe has 70% 2-row, 10% C-60 and 20% Vienna) and end up with the planned OG. If the recipe for 75% efficiency and you're getting 60%, multiply each grain weight by 1.25 (75 div by 60). BeerSmith has ways to help you with this, but I don't use it. I use a spreadsheet that doesn't have any scaling functions, just efficiency, grain bill, batch size, and OG. I tweak things until the proportions (percentages of grain bill) are the same for each ingredient, at my known efficiency, until I get to the OG the recipe calls for.

You need to get to a consistent efficiency first. I'd stop trying to make complex, big beers if you don't even know what your real, consistent efficiency is. You're going to bang your head on the wall over and over until you get that sorted. Grind the grain fine, pay close attention to every temp and volume. Take notes. If you're low on a temp, increase starting temp next time. If you're low on a volume, increase volume next time by the amount you were short. Get 2-3 batches brewed where you're pretty close on all numbers, then see what the efficiency was (just change it in beersmith until you get the actual OG you ended up with, then record the percentage you had to use to get there and use it going forward).

Understanding WHY you're getting the numbers you get is just as important, otherwise you're shooting at a moving target.
 
tre9er said:
You really gotta read-up and study the process. There's no good excuse for a really low efficiency. The fact that you're unsure how to scale up a recipe based on efficiency is somewhat troubling to me as well. It's simple math, but the software helps, obviously. What you want to do is just keep the proportions of each grain the same (ie. if recipe has 70% 2-row, 10% C-60 and 20% Vienna) and end up with the planned OG. If the recipe for 75% efficiency and you're getting 60%, multiply each grain weight by 1.25 (75 div by 60). BeerSmith has ways to help you with this, but I don't use it. I use a spreadsheet that doesn't have any scaling functions, just efficiency, grain bill, batch size, and OG. I tweak things until the proportions (percentages of grain bill) are the same for each ingredient, at my known efficiency, until I get to the OG the recipe calls for.

You need to get to a consistent efficiency first. I'd stop trying to make complex, big beers if you don't even know what your real, consistent efficiency is. You're going to bang your head on the wall over and over until you get that sorted. Grind the grain fine, pay close attention to every temp and volume. Take notes. If you're low on a temp, increase starting temp next time. If you're low on a volume, increase volume next time by the amount you were short. Get 2-3 batches brewed where you're pretty close on all numbers, then see what the efficiency was (just change it in beersmith until you get the actual OG you ended up with, then record the percentage you had to use to get there and use it going forward).

Understanding WHY you're getting the numbers you get is just as important, otherwise you're shooting at a moving target.
Click to expand...

I get your point and it makes sense so then I'm just a ****ty brewer. I've done nothing but study brewing, get decent enough equipment and do fine mills of grain. I've done dozens of batches each paying careful attention to the process. I know dozens isn't a lot around here but I only started in May so I've spent a lot of time and effort basically living and breathing beer since January and am doing the best I can short of just breaking down and buying a completely automated electric setup where the efficiencies are ultra high.

I've never made a bad beer but I almost always miss my OG on every batch.

If I'm just a crappy brewer, then fine. But it's not for a lack of trying.
 
Didn't mean to offend, just saying that every single phase is crucial. Once you fully understand them and you're getting consistency, it requires far less attention. For me it's simple:
  • Recipe scaled to match my batch size and efficiency.
  • Volume of strike and sparge water
  • Strike temp (aim high, stir down, then close tun when you're there)
  • hop schedule - again, scaled. Each addition should carry it's IBU numbers. That's how you properly scale them up.
  • boil, add hops, chill, rack, pitch starter, wait.

Check each volume for accuracy. Your software should not only tell you how much strike water to use, but how much wort you'll run-off after the mash, before the sparge water goes in. Check that, if it's low, sparge with more, if high, sparge with less. Be exact in how much more or less you use, based on the measurement of first runnings.

Same with preboil volume. If it's low, sparge with enough to get there, use cold water if you have to, it won't make a huge difference. If it's high, don't start teh boil timer until it comes down to your desired volume, then start hop schedule.

Crush is important, should be fine enough that there isn't a single uncrushed grain. All you need is SOME husks in there to create a filter bed. Most don't crush fine enough at first. Don't be afraid. Use rice hulls if you are.

Stir the crap out of the mash when you dough-in, and add the grain ever-so-slowly. I use a wire whisk=zero dough-balls. Then don't bother stirring again until the mash is done, and after the sparge water goes in.

At that point your efficiency is done, so long as your volume is right.
 
I suspect that you are having some problems with the batch and maybe even creating channels in the grain bed. We finally switched to HERMS and that drastically improved our grain use. I was adding and extra 0.5 pounds of two row (an everything else also adjusted up) for a five gallon batch. That helped quite a bit when we were just starting all grain. We are so much better now that I have to adjust now after I fill the BK. I normally have to add addition water to LOWER to correct OG. That means I have to adjust hops for the volume. We always adjust the batch for the correct OG. If we are shy, add a little corn sugar if that was part of the original recipe, or DME is it was light or just boil to reduce volume. Have not had to do that once we started to HERMS.
 
i dont think a HERMS system is the best idea until you understand everything and can be consistent with even a basic setup. i just feel like you need to know whats going on with everything first. But hey, its just my opinion
 
Congrats on the upgrade to Beersmith! It was a great purchase for me when I first started out all grain brewing a few years ago (I'm still on the first version of Beersmith). Take the time now to watch the videos on maximizing your use of Beersmith including how to build a correct equipment profile. Ensuring you have a correct equipment profile on file is critical to getting the most of out this program. I use it to build/check recipes, calculate mash/sparge temperatures and volumes, and lots of other misc. calculations.

I'm also struggling to get reach consistent efficiency. When I first started out, I didn't worry too much about it. I just assumed 70 - 75% efficiency and had some great results. The most improvement for my beer came with temperature control (chest freezer with controller). Now I'm trying to dial in my beers even further. Missing your gravity by a few points isn't going to be perceptible to most people but missing by a lot will. Just keep on trying and learning your equipment. Make sure you have a good thermometer that is calibrated!
 
I agree with the temp control. I'm thinking about getting one of these but they're so friggin expensive:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002GIZZWM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

The chest freezer and temp controller was probably the best investment I've made so far as it just makes things super easy when it comes to keeping temperatures in the right range. Another thing that I really enjoy is the oxygen tank and stone, I never have to worry about how I'm going to get enough oxygen into my bigger beers or lagers anymore.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adamjackson/page1/

Based on the pictures linked on your signature, it appears that you need to tighten up the mill. You don't really want any whole grains left after the crush.

I recommend that you get a good crush and base your next recipe on 70 percent efficiency. Then, take a pre-boil gravity reading and adjust your volumes and hop additions from there to get your target OG.
 
Agreed, there are a lot of whole-looking grains in those two pictures. In my own system I'm always scared that I've overpulverized my grains because I have quite a bit if finer particles and my gap is set to .035. But I do always condition my grain beforehand to help keep the husks rubbery so they don't break up as much.
 
justhops said:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adamjackson/page1/

Based on the pictures linked on your signature, it appears that you need to tighten up the mill. You don't really want any whole grains left after the crush.

I recommend that you get a good crush and base your next recipe on 70 percent efficiency. Then, take a pre-boil gravity reading and adjust your volumes and hop additions from there to get your target OG.
Click to expand...

I'm not grinding my own grain though. Midwest supplies is and I've asked for finer grains and they always arrive like this.
 
cooper said:
Agreed, there are a lot of whole-looking grains in those two pictures. In my own system I'm always scared that I've overpulverized my grains because I have quite a bit if finer particles and my gap is set to .035. But I do always condition my grain beforehand to help keep the husks rubbery so they don't break up as much.
Click to expand...

2nd on the crush!!:D Mine is set at 035 as well and seems to be the magic number for efficiency and not having a stuck mash...at least in my system.
 
If you just need to boost your OG you add more base malt. Increasing all the grains will alter the taste. However, I don't even do that. After I finish mashing and before I boil, I use my refractometer to take an OG reading and then do a makeup calculation and add pilsen DME to get where I need to be.

Most brewing software allows you to poke in your expected effeciency. If you are reliably getting 65% instead of the default 75%, Poke in that and it will give you your exected OG. Then increase the base malt bill until your OG gets where you need to be.
 
adamjackson said:
I'm not grinding my own grain though. Midwest supplies is and I've asked for finer grains and they always arrive like this.
Click to expand...

I would try to speak with a manager at Midwest because that crush is not acceptable. If you have some that you haven't brewed with yet, take a rolling pin to them.

Another option would be to invest in a mill. I realize it's one more thing to stick money into, but the main reason I bought mine was because of the same problem you're having. I didn't have to invest much as mine would probably fit into the ugly junk thread, but I consistently get 85 percent efficiency with a fly sparge. Offset the cost of the mill with the increase in efficiency and the mill has paid for itself many times over.
 
I realize you want to fix your efficency problem either by getting a solid 65% or whatever so you know how to adjust recipies, but it might be good to have on hand some DME to mix in. This will alow you to adjust a terribly missed OG for that batch while you review plans for your next batch and what to change in that batch. I mean to have a target og of 1.045 and get a 1.030 is a 1/3rd miss (30/45) so basically 1/3 of the expected sugars didn't show up. I agree that if it was 1.043 and expected 1.045 then it is a wash, but at 1.030, having some DME on hand to bost the OG a little is handy while you dial in.
Again, I'm only looking at the 5 gallons of wort that are low OG going 'What do I do with this??' not the problem of 'how do I avoid a this?'
 
adamjackson said:
I'm not grinding my own grain though. Midwest supplies is and I've asked for finer grains and they always arrive like this.
Click to expand...

Time to buy a mill, when you get the crush right you will actually be able to lower the grain bill and hit your gravity's, assuming you mash & sparge processes are good.:ban:
 
If you want to hit your gravity perfectly why not cool a sample of wort to 60F before you boil and see where the gravity is? This will tell you if you need to add some DME to hit your target gravity or not. I learned this the hard way when making big beers all grain....it is better to take a pre-boil sample than to make assumptions because you cannot do much after the boil.
 
Even a Corona Mill (which I have and consistently get 80% efficiency, no tannins, clear beer) for $30 shipped will improve your efficiency over that crush.
 
tre9er said:
Even a Corona Mill (which I have and consistently get 80% efficiency, no tannins, clear beer) for $30 shipped will improve your efficiency over that crush.
Click to expand...



Jayhem said:
If you want to hit your gravity perfectly why not cool a sample of wort to 60F before you boil and see where the gravity is? This will tell you if you need to add some DME to hit your target gravity or not. I learned this the hard way when making big beers all grain....it is better to take a pre-boil sample than to make assumptions because you cannot do much after the boil.
Click to expand...


great tips. thanks guys. maybe a mill is what I need.
 
tre9er said:
The fact that you're unsure how to scale up a recipe based on efficiency is somewhat troubling to me as well. It's simple math, but the software helps, obviously. What you want to do is just keep the proportions of each grain the same (ie. if recipe has 70% 2-row, 10% C-60 and 20% Vienna) and end up with the planned OG.
Click to expand...

Just a note---if you're scaling by a lot (here we're talking 30-50% increases in grain bill based on the original figure of a ~1.045 beer coming in at 1.030, which is huge), just scaling each item in the grain bill may not work as you'd expect. Things like crystal, dark roasted malts or grains, etc, which do not require mashing, are probably giving you better efficiency than the mash overall. If you double them, you're likely to throw the recipe off. It's hard to say exactly what to do, but I'd be more inclined to increase base malts by a larger proportion.

You also have to deal with the effect of a thicker mash on the process---you'll probably have to add more water, and then boil down to hit the same volumes, etc. So while in principle it's easy, getting just the same result is hard. In that sense, I agree with your main point that fixing the efficiency problem is the best solution.


Jayhem said:
If you want to hit your gravity perfectly why not cool a sample of wort to 60F before you boil and see where the gravity is? This will tell you if you need to add some DME to hit your target gravity or not. I learned this the hard way when making big beers all grain....it is better to take a pre-boil sample than to make assumptions because you cannot do much after the boil.
Click to expand...

This is good advice. I do partial mashes, and always pull a sample at the end of the mash to see how it went. I think adding DME to make up a gravity discrepancy is probably the easiest way to go---it can be fixed after the mash, so you don't have to guess what your efficiency will be this week, and it's roughly equivalent to increasing the base malt.

But, it'll still change the recipe...
 
Forgive me if this sounds a little harsh, it's not intended so: What you're doing is called "flailing": trying things at random in the hope that one of them (whatever you last did) will both identify the cause and solve your problem. It's a time-consuming, expensive, and frustrating approach (to wit: you now have a mash tun you didn't need). It's a problem that plagues many troubleshooting efforts--I remind myself about it when working on my old car ('67 Volvo) and motorcycle: it's much, much better to clearly identify the problem first then work to fix it.

If the problem is very low efficiency, there are several possible causes. The method of brewing is not likely to be high on that list.
 
zeg said:
Just a note---if you're scaling by a lot (here we're talking 30-50% increases in grain bill based on the original figure of a ~1.045 beer coming in at 1.030, which is huge), just scaling each item in the grain bill may not work as you'd expect. Things like crystal, dark roasted malts or grains, etc, which do not require mashing, are probably giving you better efficiency than the mash overall. If you double them, you're likely to throw the recipe off. It's hard to say exactly what to do, but I'd be more inclined to increase base malts by a larger proportion.

You also have to deal with the effect of a thicker mash on the process---you'll probably have to add more water, and then boil down to hit the same volumes, etc. So while in principle it's easy, getting just the same result is hard. In that sense, I agree with your main point that fixing the efficiency problem is the best solution.
Click to expand...

I think in the case of low efficiency for most on here, it's a matter of crush and lauter technique and/or volume errors. That means they're not getting as much extract from ANY of the grains, not just those that convert via enzymes. Also of note: Crystal can convert itself and does have fermentables in it, albeit fewer than base malts.
 
Milan37 said:
Forgive me if this sounds a little harsh, it's not intended so: What you're doing is called "flailing": trying things at random in the hope that one of them (whatever you last did) will both identify the cause and solve your problem. It's a time-consuming, expensive, and frustrating approach (to wit: you now have a mash tun you didn't need). It's a problem that plagues many troubleshooting efforts--I remind myself about it when working on my old car ('67 Volvo) and motorcycle: it's much, much better to clearly identify the problem first then work to fix it.

If the problem is very low efficiency, there are several possible causes. The method of brewing is not likely to be high on that list.
Click to expand...

so the argument is that no one on home brew talk needs a Mash tun, wort chiller or grain mill?

Some people don't need all electric blichmann setups but they have them anyway.

I'm not trying to sound defensive but to say I didn't need a mash tun, something I wanted to buy since the beginning is a bit extreme. I wanted a mash tun since before doing my first batch and finally saved up enough to get one...not in an effort to improve efficiency, just because it would be easier.
 
tre9er said:
I think in the case of low efficiency for most on here, it's a matter of crush and lauter technique and/or volume errors. That means they're not getting as much extract from ANY of the grains, not just those that convert via enzymes. Also of note: Crystal can convert itself and does have fermentables in it, albeit fewer than base malts.
Click to expand...

Maybe so, but I'd worry that at the kinds of scale factors we're talking about here, it may be enough to change the recipe. In any case, I agree that it's better (eventually) to fix the root of the problem rather than band-aid solutions. Still, though, band-aids can sometimes get the job done...

And yeah, crystal does have some stuff that can convert, but plenty of people just steep it without worrying about further conversion.
 
Fair enough. This is a hobby, none of us 'need' anything. My point was that you don't need a mash tun to improve efficiency. You're saying that wasn't the purpose. Ok by me.

But this is at least the second thread where you've received advice to check your crush (the first was the BIAB thread you deleted). "Beefing up" a grain bill when you aren't sure of your crush is more flailing: the hope is that if you scale up enough, the efficiency problem will be solved. But the problem isn't your grain bill.

So the advice holds: identify the problem, identify the possible solutions, and work through that list starting from easy (cheap, fast) to complex in a methodical way.
 
Milan37 said:
Fair enough. This is a hobby, none of us 'need' anything. My point was that you don't need a mash tun to improve efficiency. You're saying that wasn't the purpose. Ok by me.

But this is at least the second thread where you've received advice to check your crush (the first was the BIAB thread you deleted). "Beefing up" a grain bill when you aren't sure of your crush is more flailing: the hope is that if you scale up enough, the efficiency problem will be solved. But the problem isn't your grain bill.

So the advice holds: identify the problem, identify the possible solutions, and work through that list starting from easy (cheap, fast) to complex in a methodical way.
Click to expand...

Yep. I've neve crushed grain myself. You'd think if midwest was as crappy as it seems, more people would be voicing about it.

I don't want to point fingers at them but it starts with the grain and people here are telling me their grains simply aren't crushed enough.
 

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what grains do i need to turn my straw pilsner into a golden lager
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7
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737
hottpeper13
H
F
help with my hop choice for my next lager
Replies
4
Views
602
AlexKay
A

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