I poured the dregs from 6 bottles of TH into 300ml of 1.025 wort on the stirplate two nights ago. The color of the starter has barely changed. What should I be looking for? Is it just that the initial yeast cell count is so small that it will take a few days to show activity? Too much starter wort?
Harvesting Yeast from Bell's Two Hearted Ale
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Germelli1
Well-Known Member
When I do it with rouge beers, it usually takes a while for noticable change. I turn off the stirplate after a few days and see if a significant yeast cake forms. If it does I step it up and it usually goes crazy from there!
Fijidave12
Well-Known Member
I was successful with about 6 oz total of TH from 2 bottles and a 1.040 starter. Needed to step it up once after 3 days, and it blasted through my Oberon clone without a problem. Was able to wash 4 jars of yeast afterwards. So just give it a little time and possibly a bit more sugar/nutrient. I could be wrong with this, but it worked really well for me. Good luck with it! 
My Oberon clone with harvested yeast
My Oberon clone with harvested yeast
Thanks. I guess the next step should be about 1L?
I probably only used around 3-4 oz. total dregs. I forgot to mention I did add a pinch of yeast nutrient. I'm just wondering how long till I step it up.
Germelli1
Well-Known Member
1L sounds perfect. Mine usually comes out to 1400 mL because I start the step up wort with a liter of water/last runnigns from previous mash and add DME to get it to the right gravity. So that plus the existing starter in the flask comes out to about 1400 mL
I also toss raisins or old yeast into the boil as nutrient.
Seven
Well-Known Member
Just a side note about harvesting yeast from Bell's beers:
Bells recommends harvesting yeast from their Amber Ale. It's the same yeast used in Two Hearted but the Amber Ale has a lower ABV and therefore the yeast should be less stressed.
Bells recommends harvesting yeast from their Amber Ale. It's the same yeast used in Two Hearted but the Amber Ale has a lower ABV and therefore the yeast should be less stressed.
Thanks. I thought about that, but I had to dance with who I brung. I had the TH already.
iaefebs
Well-Known Member
If you look on a Bell's bottle there is a Batch#. You can go to the web site and find out when it was bottled and how old it is. Bells more or less recommends using the Pale Ale when cultivating. I've cultivated that and from the Oberon. In both instances I used the bottom yeast from 3 bottles. I was able to step up from "dregs" to 1 liter in 4 days. The stuff just exploded like crazy.
Without a microscope you will only have faith to go on for that first 300ml step. The yeast was already in stationary phase and reviving it will not be rapid (like pitching a WL or WY 100B cell pack) so there won't be obvious krausen or activity. In reality, that first step is just getting them going, kicking them out of stationary phase and getting the metabolism and replication going and doing so in a small enough starter to limit chance for bacteria to take hold during the longer lag phase.
You can build that next step up to as much as 10x (in theory), but given the stressed condition of the yeast before starting the process, I would go in 3-4x increments at this point.
Should see some activity in that little volume of wort though right? Even if it's just a color change. I guess I could just turn off the stirplate and see what settles out. Or just step it up in a couple days to 1L and hope for the best. Never done this so I'm kinda flying blind.
Color change won't really be dramatic. May not even be noticeable unless you saw a side-by-side snapshot.
Yeah, if you turn off the stir plate for a couple hours, you should see some evidence of a yeast cake (albeit thin)
Germelli1
Well-Known Member
I want to add that it is a lot of time hard to discern the yeast cake from proteins/break matter/etc in the boiled extract on the first step. Like suggested before, I go on blind faith they are in there doing their job!
big_al_in_k-zoo
Well-Known Member
I got a 6 pack of Bell's Pale Ale. Drank 3 and got the yeast from them. I started with a 300ml starter at about 1.040. After about a day or so on my stir plate this is what I had:
I then stepped it up to a 1000ml flask and pitched into my two hearted clone. That fermentation was STRONG. =)
I've noticed though the yeast works great, although for me it doesn't settle well. Even after cold crashing, any movement and it stirs up ALOT. I washed the yeast after that batch and re-used it in my last brew, Beirmucher's Centenial Blonde recipe. =)
I then stepped it up to a 1000ml flask and pitched into my two hearted clone. That fermentation was STRONG. =)
I've noticed though the yeast works great, although for me it doesn't settle well. Even after cold crashing, any movement and it stirs up ALOT. I washed the yeast after that batch and re-used it in my last brew, Beirmucher's Centenial Blonde recipe. =)
This is a good point, especially for starter worts derived from malt extract.
I got a 6 pack of Bell's Pale Ale. Drank 3 and got the yeast from them. I started with a 300ml starter at about 1.040. After about a day or so on my stir plate this is what I had:
I then stepped it up to a 1000ml flask and pitched into my two hearted clone. That fermentation was STRONG. =)
I've noticed though the yeast works great, although for me it doesn't settle well. Even after cold crashing, any movement and it stirs up ALOT. I washed the yeast after that batch and re-used it in my last brew, Beirmucher's Centenial Blonde recipe. =)
That looks like a good bit of yeast. I wonder if I should increase the gravity on my step-up wort? I did 1.025 because of the stressed yeast in the TH. I thought they would enjoy an easy meal.
Clementine
Well-Known Member
Stick with the 1.025 for the first round, you are right to take it easy on them. Of course this means that there will probably be less yeast on the first round as there is less for them to east. Step it up with a fridge, decant, swirl, sit (until trub falls out) decant yeast solution in to new starter routine until you get enough yeast to do you job.
Also you will want to flame the lip of the flask to avoid stray bacteria from being transferred to your step up starter. If you can pressure cook (can) your wort before using it for bottle culturing as it give your a cleaner media for the yeasties to grow in as nothing lives in canned wort.
Clem
Jubilee said:Will someone explain what "stepping up" means in definition and logistics?
Its when you make a small starter, ferment it out, then brew up another starter and pitch the cake from the small starter into the bigger starter.
It works really well when you need to pitch a huge starter but might only have a 1000 ml flask
Or when culturing yeast. You get the yeast growing and then when you have enough healthy yeast for a larger gravity you make another one!
Clementine
Well-Known Member
To go more in depth, say you only had one bottle of the beer you wanted to culture or you are doing it from a slant.
1) 10ml wort starter in a vial (slant tube minus the agar) or 1/10 full baby food jar empty dregs from bottle scrap yeast from slant into vial. 24 -48hrs
2) 100ml wort starter in small flask dump 10ml into flask and shake 24 -48hrs
3) 1000ml wort starer in large flask dump in 100ml into flask add O2 and put on stir plate if you can shake often. 24 -48hrs
4) Repeat until you have the size you need
5) Fridge it 48hrs
6) Day of brew Decant, swirl, warm to pitch temps if inclined, swirl and pitch.
Extra notes.
- Best to use canned (pressure cooked wort) as these are absolutely sterile.
- All transfers flame openings and work in a draft free area with minimal open time of containers around a flame source.
- sanitize everything with sanitizer of choice or denatured alcohol
- 10 x starter size steps, some zymurgists recommend 8 x or even 5 x starter size steps.
charlesmartin
Well-Known Member
i harvested yeast from 4 tha bottles. it has been my best yeast experience yet. it took me about 2 weeks of stepping it up before i had enough to ferment 5 gallons of my tha clone (dead ringer from nb). that yeast went to town and the beer is looking great. dry hopped a week ago, and i am bottling on saturday! cant wait. thank you bell's.
I have yeast! Just stepped it up to 1L last night, and it's working like a starter should. I plan to decant most of the spent wort and refrigerate the yeast until I get a chance to brew again. Is there any need to wash the yeast if I plan to store it for awhile? Or can I decant most of the liquid and store it like it is?
Germelli1
Well-Known Member
I actually wouldn't decant until you have refrigerated the starter. This is just personal preference since I rarely to never decant starters, but it is the yeast in suspension that I want in my beer most of all!
Oh yeah, that's the plan. "Cold Crash" the starter and just save enough liquid to cover the yeast and refrigerate until later. It works for washed yeast, should work with starters too? Then, prior to brewing, make another starter at the regular 1.040 gravity and pitch at high krausen.
Germelli1
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a great plan! What do you have in mind for these critters to tear through?
I would like to see your recipe, my friend!
I believe the latest BYO actually had the recipe from Bells 
I believe the latest BYO actually had the recipe from Bells
I really need to subsribe to BYO. Damn.
Germelli1
Well-Known Member
Every once in a while they do a "Buy one Get one free" deal. It is usually around the holidays to market it as giving someone a gift. Keep an eye out this year an I'll let you know if they offer me a similar resubscription deal!
This is the one from Zymurgy.
And here is another good clone from eschatz. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/bells-two-hearted-ale-clone-close-they-come-91488/
Haven't decided which one to try first.
This is the one from Zymurgy.
And here is another good clone from eschatz. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/bells-two-hearted-ale-clone-close-they-come-91488/
Haven't decided which one to try first.
HAH i was just logging back in to correct myself. It was from Zymurgy, not BYO. You can see at the top it says "As brewed by David Curtis and Ryan Kramer, Bell's General Store and the article is by John Mallett, Bell's Production Manager. I would guess its a pretty spot on recipe
Yeah, but you gotta drink the Amber to get the yeast. Nothing wrong with their amber, but if I had to choose between the two...
I've harvested yeast from 2H a couple of times and actually used it once and it worked very well. I think it's very good yeast.
wobrien
Well-Known Member
A guy at my LHBS said that Wyeast 1056 is the same strain Bell's uses for the 2HA. I used it along with Eschatz's recipe and it was great!
That's what is used in the clone recipes, but I assure you it is not the same yeast. Bell's yeast exhibits several very distinct characteristics that make it undoubtedly different than WLP001/1056.
bh10
Well-Known Member
This is the one from Zymurgy.
And here is another good clone from eschatz. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/bells-two-hearted-ale-clone-close-they-come-91488/
Haven't decided which one to try first.
I saw that when it came out, that hop schedule doesnt seem right but IDK.
wobrien
Well-Known Member
Randar said:
I've been too lazy to try harvesting yeast, but this gives me an excuse to buy some Bell's. I'll try this on my next batch.
Seven
Well-Known Member
Haha, I know what you mean. Actually the Amber wasn't too bad. It wasn't as good as Two Hearted, of course... but not bad for an amber ale.
DawgBrewer
Well-Known Member
The Pale Ale actually has a lower ABV than the Amber, and I like it more also. I have a small mason jar going now with about 4 beers worth of the Two Hearted yeast going now. I can see some cake forming and some floating on the surface. I just picked up a sixer of the Pale Ale and plan on making a starter out of all 6. I'm going to split my next batch and pitch both to see if there is a difference. I know they are the same strain... I just want to see if there is a difference between the more stressed TH cells or the less stressed Pale Ale cells.
