Welding Stainless without gas

Can I weld stainless steel to mile steel without using any gas? I have a Lincoln Weldpak 100hd. Would stainless wire suffice alone?

you could stick weld it, but don't try to use a MIG without the gas...

Technically, you can stick stainless and mild steel together with a pretty universal alloy like 308 without gas (as long as you use flux or flux-cored filler). However, the results aren't likely to be pretty. What is the application?

Well it's not for anything brew related, I just thought since you guys are knowledgeable about welding that you would know. I'm trying to add a 2nd bung hole(stainless or mild) on a Stainless downpipe for my car, but I only have a flux lincoln mig with no gas....

I highly recommend getting a muffler shop to do the work. You'll be much happier in the end.

Yeah I think I might as well, thanks for the info.

Benihana said:

Well it's not for anything brew related, I just thought since you guys are knowledgeable about welding that you would know. I'm trying to add a 2nd bung hole(stainless or mild) on a Stainless downpipe for my car, but I only have a flux lincoln mig with no gas....

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You need it to seal weld so it doesn't leak. Someone else suggested a muffler shop, but my experience with them has been spotty. They usually just have a MIG setup and only know how to weld upside down, with their eyes shut, on 14/16 gauge exhaust tubing.

My suggestion is find someone you know that has a TIG setup and knows how to weld. Or, look for "fabrication" or "welding" shops in your area that do welding. With the downpipe in your hand, it will be easy--I'm not sure if you planned on removing it or getting the welding done on the car. It should cost you that much as it is a pretty quick job. I could do it in 15-mins start to finish.

One last thing. I welded my own bung in my downpipe. First one didn't go well. You really should have an old O2 sensor or a plug installed in the bung when you weld it. Put on some good, N5000 high temp antiseize. My first one, I got so hot it didn't stay round. After getting it all nice and welded in, cooled down, I could'nt get my wideband installed. Had to cut it off and start over.

Ok, when I said muffler shop, I didn't mean your local 2-bit garage. You need to have a GOOD shop deal with this job. Stainless exhaust work is not for the rank amateur.

turbo, with all due respect, you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to welding an O2 sensor bung. You overheated the fitting and warped it. There is absolutely no need to have a sensor installed during the welding process, and you're likely to ruin the sensor if you do install one.

I believe turbo's advice was to use an "old" previously ruined sensor.

Just make sure you use only 308 stick electrodes, because 309,316, etc.. will cause cracking either right after its welded, or a short time after your part goes into service. 308 prevents this cracking, and is the only type stainless steel filler I will use to join mild steel to stainless steel. Now with that said, pipe is another animal all together, and Im not sure what a bung hole is, besides what I think it is, but if your welding on pipe, go to someone that knows what their doing, which others have said.

wilserbrewer said:

I believe turbo's advice was to use an "old" previously ruined sensor.

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If Im getting this right, your wanting to screw a o2 sensor into a threaded fitting that your gonna weld onto a piece of pipe? If this is the case, I wouldnt have the o2 sensor in the fitting when it goes to be welded, because you will either fuse the fitting inside, or sieze it up. If you get the weld too hot, that metal is gonna do whatever it wants to do and walk all over the place, so its important to weld in short sections, and let it cool, and the fitting will keep its shape and not warp.

I was a bit harsh in my response to turbo. imsoweetadid puts it much more eloquently.

Yuri_Rage said:

Ok, when I said muffler shop, I didn't mean your local 2-bit garage. You need to have a GOOD shop deal with this job. Stainless exhaust work is not for the rank amateur.

turbo, with all due respect, you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to welding an O2 sensor bung. You overheated the fitting and warped it. There is absolutely no need to have a sensor installed during the welding process, and you're likely to ruin the sensor if you do install one.

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You're probably right--I don't know what I'm talking about. You probably have some better shops in your area than I do because none in my area know how to spell stainless. You know what they weld all SST exhausts with around here? Carbon filler metal. It works fine and just dilutes the chromium in the weld region and rusts in 2-months, but what do they care?

See pic below of my O2 bung I welded myself in my SST downpipe. I would have said use a plug, like the one I fabricated and use in my DP when my O2 sensor is not installed, but I didn't think he had one of those laying around. The dead O2 sensor with antiseize applied would do the same thing. :cross: Even if you go slow, the thin section of the bung is going to get it red hot during welding--it just doesn't have any mass to dissipate the heat.

I saw your apology further down the post, so its all good I guess. Just because someone doesn't post their resume, don't assume they're an idiot. I'm not a professional welder, but I've done my fair share and can make some nice welds. Okay, back to talking about beer and welding up brew rigs!!

My friend that has a muffler shop does a lot of custom work, welds SS bungs to steel pipe as well stainless tips to steel exhaust pipe with just .030" wire and Co2. No worries with rust being metal pipe and under a car, it's "that look people want". The rub is stainless on stainless then go Tig it.
The other problem is the cooling down shrinking of the bung fitting hence running a tap thru it to open it up for your O2 sensor be it wide or narrow band. Use a Nickel base anti-seize compound that's rated up to 2,600 degrees F not that alumimum base crap as your running turbo temps that are up there way beyond the melting temp of aluminum powder in normal anti-seize compounds, hell NA motors are. You want Nickel Anti-Seize made by Loctite, Grainger has it, not cheap but a 8 oz bottle lasts many years. Any and everything on exhaust systems including slip joints are coated with this compound as well all nuts and bolts. Five years later a dream to work on and take apart. Apply from the head to the tailpipe the total exhaust system, you'll be glad later. Loctite to be safe has down rated their product to 2,400 degrees F. I recall it was $23 for that plastic bottle and was worth it on custom exhaust systems with slip fitting couplings on the custom made "X" cross overs that I built. Ceramic coated inside and out while a new from the headers to "X" cross then after who cares about cooling down the exhaust gases in the system as less volume from less gas expansion. The work is done after the the "X" by gas flow.
Sorry a little off topic, "ex A&P here. I'm not going to say "because i'm a engineer" , just what works the past 40 plus years hot rodding.
PM me your progress I would like to see how it's coming along.
You must apply some of this into your brewing process to be PC on this forum.
Cheers. Carl..............

BrewBeemer said:

Use a Nickel base anti-seize compound that's rated up to 2,600 degrees F not that alumimum base crap as your running turbo temps that are up there way beyond the melting temp of aluminum powder in normal anti-seize compounds, hell NA motors are. You want Nickel Anti-Seize made by Loctite, Grainger has it, not cheap but a 8 oz bottle lasts many years.

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Absolutely. I use N5000 myself. Mine happens to be "nuclear" grade, but it does the same thing and worth it's weight in gold when doing exhaust work. That crap you get at Advance/Autozone just does not work well.

Sorry a little off topic, "ex A&P here. I'm not going to say "because i'm a engineer" , just what works the past 40 plus years hot rodding. Carl.

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Ah cool, I'm a PSEL myself. You know, I took a welding class at the local community college a long time ago. We had a great instructor, he was pretty good with MIG, TIG and SMAW. But gas welding, I could not grasp. I asked lots of questions and burned up lots of gas, but I just always made puddles of crap and all he could tell me was "you've got it too hot." It took some crusty guy out at the airport about an hour to teach me a few "keys" that the other guy wasn't sharing that made it all come together. I can gas weld now, thanks to an old A&P who probably learned back in the 40's. That is a dying art--not many folks do that anymore and even fewer can teach it. Cheers.

2-0turbo said:

Absolutely. I use N5000 myself. Mine happens to be "nuclear" grade, but it does the same thing and worth it's weight in gold when doing exhaust work. That crap you get at Advance/Autozone just does not work well.



Ah cool, I'm a PSEL myself. You know, I took a welding class at the local community college a long time ago. We had a great instructor, he was pretty good with MIG, TIG and SMAW. But gas welding, I could not grasp. I asked lots of questions and burned up lots of gas, but I just always made puddles of crap and all he could tell me was "you've got it too hot." It took some crusty guy out at the airport about an hour to teach me a few "keys" that the other guy wasn't sharing that made it all come together. I can gas weld now, thanks to an old A&P who probably learned back in the 40's. That is a dying art--not many folks do that anymore and even fewer can teach it. Cheers.

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In my day we had to gas weld 4130 tubing, base horizontal, one vertical with two 45 degree all joined together. The test piece cut in half, filed then lapped on sandpaper the Dye Penetrent tested. This with 000 tip O/A. Now this test is not required, one must only recognize a good sound weld by sight.
I welded up a few airframes as well a few EAA planes designed by a life long friend of dad's. We machined and laced up motorcycle wheels for the biplanes.

I hated turbines being a recip nut to this day. On test stand just beside a 2800 Pratt pulling max power with 3' of exhaust flame glowing stacks at night a feeling words or movie you can never feel. Worked 501-D13 Allisons also test stand this Herc C-130 engines. I'll take a Pratt or a 1650 Allison any
day.
Careful i'm only 56, had the A&P at 21. Then on to stick, O/A, Tig and Mig in the shop now. "Q" bottles O/A plus all 260/280 owner owned bottles. Just hot a 150 cu/ft Argon bottle owner owned for $30, this will be my Nitrogen Stout bottle. Down to four 20 # Co2 bottles as I keep giving them away.
Bridgeport and lathe personal toys. Not your average neighbor.
Fired off the twin drone engine as well the pulse jet, instant cops both times. Stuffy neighbors?
Sorry this is a bier forum, not to offend this thread starter. PM me. Carl......

imsoweetadid said:

Just make sure you use only 308 stick electrodes, because 309,316, etc.. will cause cracking either right after its welded, or a short time after your part goes into service. 308 prevents this cracking, and is the only type stainless steel filler I will use to join mild steel to stainless steel. Now with that said, pipe is another animal all together, and Im not sure what a bung hole is, besides what I think it is, but if your welding on pipe, go to someone that knows what their doing, which others have said.

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I just want to quote myself and correct a simple mistake that I made. I know this is an old thread, but another welder brought this up to me, and I cant leave my old post with wrong info. With that being said it's 309 that is used to join stainless steel to steel not 308. Sorry for the typo guys.

imsoweetadid said:

Just make sure you use only 308 stick electrodes, because 309,316, etc.. will cause cracking either right after its welded, or a short time after your part goes into service. 308 prevents this cracking, and is the only type stainless steel filler I will use to join mild steel to stainless steel. Now with that said, pipe is another animal all together, and Im not sure what a bung hole is, besides what I think it is, but if your welding on pipe, go to someone that knows what their doing, which others have said.

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Why use 308 over 309?
Is there something about welding exhaust pipe that I don't know about?
309 is the recommended filler for welding mild steel to stainless.
308 is the filler for 304 stainless.

dmfa200 said:

Why use 308 over 309?
Is there something about welding exhaust pipe that I don't know about?
309 is the recommended filler for welding mild steel to stainless.
308 is the filler for 304 stainless.

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He just corrected himself in the post right before yours:cross:

Benihana said:

Can I weld stainless steel to mile steel without using any gas? I have a Lincoln Weldpak 100hd. Would stainless wire suffice alone?

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Blue demon stainless fluxcore