Southern Tier Choklat flavor

I was hoping for some help with how to get the intense chocolate flavor the Southern Tier Choklat has. They say that they are using bittersweet Belgian chocolate, but it is so sweet and intense like Hershey's syrup. Any ideas from anyone?

Doubles said:

I was hoping for some help with how to get the intense chocolate flavor the Southern Tier Choklat has. They say that they are using bittersweet Belgian chocolate, but it is so sweet and intense like Hershey's syrup. Any ideas from anyone?

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I found this on their site (I'm pretty sure that S.Tier list all of their ingredients
right on the bottle!)

choklat stout
Imperial Chocolate Stout
the ancients called it 'food for the gods'
The Popol Vuh, the sacred book of the Maya, unfolds a complex web of mystery around a beverage known as xocoatl (ch-co-atle). At Southern Tier, we’re not surprised that hieroglyphs of the ancient Maya depict chocolate being poured for rulers and gods. Even through the many voyages of Columbus, the mystical bean remained nothing more than a strange currency of the native peoples.

Moving through centuries, the circular journey of cacao has been realized in our brewing house, encompassing the complexity of the darkest, bitter-sweet candy together with the original frothy cold beverage of the ancient Maya to bring to you our Blackwater Series Choklat Stout. We have combined the finest ingredients to tempt your senses & renew the power & interrelation of history in every bottle.
11.0% abv • 195º L • Imperial Chocolate Stout • 22 oz / 1/6 keg
2-row barley / caramel 60 malt / barley flakes / chocolate malt / bittersweet Belgian chocolate / kettle hops: chinook & willamette

I guessed at a recipe using those ingredients and using cocoa powder at the end of the boil. Didn't even come close. I think it needs chocolate extract at kegging/bottling.

Yes, that is what I am trying to figure out. The ST Choklat is so intensely flavored, it is almost pure chocolate syrup in flavor.

Has anyone come close with a clone of this?

Doubles said:

Yes, that is what I am trying to figure out. The ST Choklat is so intensely flavored, it is almost pure chocolate syrup in flavor.

Has anyone come close with a clone of this?

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Just out of curiousity, how did you get ST in NE???

I had it at a tasting on Saturday, and loved it. A friend here does a lot of trading.

I would love to take a shot at brewing something close if I can figure out how to flavor it.

Doubles said:

I had it at a tasting on Saturday, and loved it. A friend here does a lot of trading.

I would love to take a shot at brewing something close if I can figure out how to flavor it.

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I have found that most brewers are pretty receptive to homebrewers. If you email ST and ask you might be surprised to find that they would be happy to help you find a recipe that would mimic theirs. After all, immitation IS the highest form of flattery!

Thanks for the idea, I'll give it a shot.

Did you ever email them for hints?? I really want to brew this as well but I don't know what direction to go with the chocolate. I'm going to email them if you didn't but I don't want to bother them if they already gave you an answer. Thanks!

anyone ever hear back from them?

I'd love to make this beer. If anyone has more info, don't be shy in posting.

Had this one on Christmas Eve, while opening and assembling "Santa's" gift for my kids. It was wonderful, one of the best ST I've had, and I am also interested in clone info if anyone's got some...

Wondering if anyone had an update on this. ST Choklat is one of my favorite stouts but I just don't see what type of chocolate they're adding to get that intense richness and slight sweetness in the beer.

I have a batch of dry stout in primary fermentation right now. I'm thinking about splitting it into a few growlers for secondary with different types of chocolate in each. I'm going to use chocolate extract, dark chocolate shavings, homemade chocolate syrup, and cocoa powder. Since I'm a newbie at this homebrewing business, I'm hoping you guys could give me some pointers.

- How much of each chocolate ingredient should I be adding to a 64oz growler?

- Do you think the chocolate shavings will incorporate itself into the beer at all? I'm thinking about swirling it with a sanitized racking cane every few days.

- The homemade chocolate syrup is going to have sucrose in it with a dash of salt as well. a) Will the addition of sucrose to trigger another round of fermentation and, if so, how will it affect the beer? b) Will the salt hurt the beer or yeast? It's only gonna be a small pinch to bring out the chocolate sweetness in the syrup.

- I need a suggestion on how to add the cocoa powder into the beer. I don't want to add it in dry form because I picture the end product being gritty with little bits of powder floating around. I was thinking about boiling the powder in a very small amount of water and adding it to the growler. Is there a better way of doing this? I've seen that most recipes add the cocoa powder during the boil. What will be the difference in the outcome between that method and my method of adding it during secondary?

- And lastly, bottling from growlers... how? I'm thinking funnel + tubing and slowly pouring it into the bottle from the growler. But I'm worried about oxidation during the transfer since the beer will really be exposed to a lot of air when being poured into the funnel. Is there a better method?

Thanks in advance for your help!

DinoCow said:

- How much of each chocolate ingredient should I be adding to a 64oz growler?

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8 ounces of cocoa powder is thought to be a high amount for 5 gal. No idea about the others.

- Do you think the chocolate shavings will incorporate itself into the beer at all? I'm thinking about swirling it with a sanitized racking cane every few days.

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No, I would melt any prepared chocolate. Actually I wouldn't use it at all because of the fat and (probably) lecithin.

- The homemade chocolate syrup is going to have sucrose in it with a dash of salt as well. a) Will the addition of sucrose to trigger another round of fermentation and, if so, how will it affect the beer? b) Will the salt hurt the beer or yeast? It's only gonna be a small pinch to bring out the chocolate sweetness in the syrup.

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Yes that will cause additional fermentation and the effect on the beer should be minor. A very small amount of salt won't hurt anything but I would just leave it out.

- I need a suggestion on how to add the cocoa powder into the beer. I don't want to add it in dry form because I picture the end product being gritty with little bits of powder floating around. I was thinking about boiling the powder in a very small amount of water and adding it to the growler. Is there a better way of doing this? I've seen that most recipes add the cocoa powder during the boil. What will be the difference in the outcome between that method and my method of adding it during secondary?

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I would do the boiling water thing. Should be nearly identical to boiling it in the wort for a brief time.

- And lastly, bottling from growlers... how? I'm thinking funnel + tubing and slowly pouring it into the bottle from the growler. But I'm worried about oxidation during the transfer since the beer will really be exposed to a lot of air when being poured into the funnel. Is there a better method?

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siphon it using a racking cane clipped into place and a bottle filler.

Any new thoughts on Choklat? Any one come close?

I just recently had the Mokah one and like the OP said, the aroma is so definitively that of Hershey's chocolate syrup, I'd be shocked if it wasn't in there, although, I know they most likely didn't use it. I live 10 mins from Hershey, so I know that aroma.

skeeordye11 said:

I have found that most brewers are pretty receptive to homebrewers. If you email ST and ask you might be surprised to find that they would be happy to help you find a recipe that would mimic theirs. After all, immitation IS the highest form of flattery!

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I contacted Pete their Brewmaster by telephone.

The Chocolate they use is powder and belgian. It's slightly sweet and put it at the end of the boil and well mixed. The bulk of their grain is Barley and they also use Caramel 60 Chocolate and Black.

I plan to brew this very soon. I'll let you know how it goes and post the recipe here.

Candyman37 said:

I contacted Pete their Brewmaster by telephone.

The Chocolate they use is powder and belgian. It's slightly sweet and put it at the end of the boil and well mixed. The bulk of their grain is Barley and they also use Caramel 60 Chocolate and Black.

I plan to brew this very soon. I'll let you know how it goes and post the recipe here.

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I'm going to try this one in a few weeks. So when Pete says powder and Belgian, does that mean he's using two different types of chocolate? I'm going to go overboard on the chocolate as it is, just want to be somewhat close to his. Thinking about mashing in the high 150s too to retain some of that sweetness....

This is an old thread but I was bored tonight so I came up with this:

OG 1.108
FG 1.027

63* SRM

90.4 IBU

10.8% ABV
-----------------------------

9 lbs. Light DME
2 lbs. 2 oz. Chocolate malt
1 lbs. 8 oz. Crystal 60 L
8 oz. Cocoa powder
8 oz. Barley flakes

2.00 oz. Chinook @ 60 minutes
3.00 oz. Willamette @ 60 minutes
3.00 oz. Chinook @ 15 minutes
2.00 oz. Willamette @ 15 minutes
2.25 oz. Chinook @ 5 minutes
2.25 oz. Willamette @ 5 minutes

3-4 oz. Chocolate extract at bottling

WLP080 cream ale yeast or Nottingham dry yeast.

Mash grains @ 155F

Just me playing around with some ideas. Let's clone this thing!

I'd love to see a clone of this and some other Southern Tier brews as well; Creme Brulee is another real standout. Keep us posted on how your recipe turns out.

A Google search for Southern Tier recipes doesn't yield many cloning attempts. Are their brews just not well known, or are their unique flavors just a real challenge to clone?

In this thread, Lodovico says that they use pure chocolate extract at bottling.

Maybe Southern Tier uses the Belgian chocolate powder to create the extract, rather than adding it directly to the wort

I'm guessing you could make your own chocolate extract by putting some cocoa powder in vodka and letting it sit for a few days or weeks.

I was walking though a local beer store last week who does tastings every friday and overheard individuals from a distributor who doesn't deal with Southern Tier talking about how ST puts a lot of post ferment extracts/flavors in some of their specialty brews. Maybe this is so? I still think Southern Tier is my #2 favorite brewery through - tons of kick-azz beers, especially anything in a bomber + Hop Sun:rockin:

I brewed a chocolate cherry stout after drinking Great divides oak aged chocolate Yeti. Yesterday, I drank the Southern Tier choklat and they're very similar. Both are extremely chocolatey, and great brews. I can tell you that 4 oz of chocolate extract at bottling is nowhere near the intense chocolate flavor of ST. I also used 8 oz cocoa powder at the end of the boil, and another 8 oz of cocoa powder in secondary, and my beer is nothing even NEAR the amount of chocolate flavor of ST's, OR GD's. I want that chocolate flavor, but definitely got nothing near it. The aroma is chocolate, but not the flavor. I think maybe nibs in the secondary will be my next attempt, or some way of mixing the chocolate in every couple days. It seemed like the chocolate just clumped up at the bottom and the wort just sat on it. I'll try again, and just go way overboard on the chocolate.

eon said:

This is an old thread but I was bored tonight so I came up with this:

OG 1.108
FG 1.027

63* SRM

90.4 IBU

10.8% ABV
-----------------------------

9 lbs. Light DME
2 lbs. 2 oz. Chocolate malt
1 lbs. 8 oz. Crystal 60 L
8 oz. Cocoa powder
8 oz. Barley flakes

2.00 oz. Chinook @ 60 minutes
3.00 oz. Willamette @ 60 minutes
3.00 oz. Chinook @ 15 minutes
2.00 oz. Willamette @ 15 minutes
2.25 oz. Chinook @ 5 minutes
2.25 oz. Willamette @ 5 minutes

3-4 oz. Chocolate extract at bottling

WLP080 cream ale yeast or Nottingham dry yeast.

Mash grains @ 155F

Just me playing around with some ideas. Let's clone this thing!

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Anyone try doing this? Looking at it, it's about $60-$80 worth of ingredients depending where you buy from.

mikeysab said:

I brewed a chocolate cherry stout after drinking Great divides oak aged chocolate Yeti. Yesterday, I drank the Southern Tier choklat and they're very similar. Both are extremely chocolatey, and great brews. I can tell you that 4 oz of chocolate extract at bottling is nowhere near the intense chocolate flavor of ST. I also used 8 oz cocoa powder at the end of the boil, and another 8 oz of cocoa powder in secondary, and my beer is nothing even NEAR the amount of chocolate flavor of ST's, OR GD's. I want that chocolate flavor, but definitely got nothing near it. The aroma is chocolate, but not the flavor. I think maybe nibs in the secondary will be my next attempt, or some way of mixing the chocolate in every couple days. It seemed like the chocolate just clumped up at the bottom and the wort just sat on it. I'll try again, and just go way overboard on the chocolate.

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I just kegged a Chocolate Stout (not a clone of anything) that used 6 oz cocoa powder and 3 oz Belgian bittersweet chocolate (shavings); both added with ~15 min left in the boil and the flavor/aroma were not nearly as strong as I wanted. I added 2 oz chocolate extract at bottling. I agree that it seems the chocolate just doesn't get 'incorporated' into the beer very well. I had a gallon of truby chocolate pudding at the bottom of the carboy and a chocolate 'iceberg' at the top. I've still got 6 oz of chocolate extract so I'll probably be adding some after I taste it.

eon said:

This is an old thread but I was bored tonight so I came up with this:

OG 1.108
FG 1.027

63* SRM

90.4 IBU

10.8% ABV
-----------------------------

9 lbs. Light DME
2 lbs. 2 oz. Chocolate malt
1 lbs. 8 oz. Crystal 60 L
8 oz. Cocoa powder
8 oz. Barley flakes

2.00 oz. Chinook @ 60 minutes
3.00 oz. Willamette @ 60 minutes
3.00 oz. Chinook @ 15 minutes
2.00 oz. Willamette @ 15 minutes
2.25 oz. Chinook @ 5 minutes
2.25 oz. Willamette @ 5 minutes

3-4 oz. Chocolate extract at bottling

WLP080 cream ale yeast or Nottingham dry yeast.

Mash grains @ 155F

Just me playing around with some ideas. Let's clone this thing!

Click to expand...

Wouldn't 90 IBU's be to much? I was thinking of keeping it in the 35-40 range.

Well, I thought I read 90 IBUs somewhere but now I can't remember which website I saw that on.

The chocolate stout I mentioned above is pretty good but not quite like ST Choklat. Mine has more of a 'dark chocolate' flavor and not as much overall chocolate as Choklat. I haven't experimented with adding more extract to a glass yet, it's still a bit young and as the booziness subsides the chocolate flavor is coming through more.

I need to get another bottle and measure the FG, knowing that helps a LOT imo. Tastes like it's very high.

The type of chocolate malt will also affect it imo. I used UK 420L chocolate malt in my chocolate stout but I used a .5/.25/.25 lb combo of UK Pale chocolate/Carafa Special II/UK Roast Barley in a RIS and it is actually quite chocolately even though it doesn't have any chocolate in it. I'll be trying that combo in my next chocolate stout.

I used Creme de Cacao (375ml/5gal, but YMMV) at secondary to push up the chocolate and it turned out well. Maybe experiment with its dosage on pints of a dry stout?