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ddahl84

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Joined
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Location
Minneapolis
I've decided to post my electric brewery because its a little different than anything else out there. My setup is 3000w 120v single element, "Brutus 20" two tier, gravity and one pump system. I took in a lot of info from all the BIAB systems and incorporated them into a batch sparging setup. Instead of installing a 240v breaker I wanted to use a 30A 120v breaker already installed. I found that 3000w 120v water heater elements existed which would be perfect for the 5 gallon batches that I already do. I bought a inline gfci cord and then started piecing the rest together. It's very similar to the 20a 120v systems out there with the exceptions that I used 10g wiring, plugs and outlets rated for 30amps, and extra fuses going to the pid, pump and alarm.
I want to say thanks to everyone that posted there setups for inspiration and guidance, theelectricbrewery.com,, and especially P-J for all those amazing schematics. I don't think I would have ever attempted this without his help.
The stand was custom made for me from my brother in law.

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Edit: Here are a few more pics.

Automatic water control box and float switch.
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Float switch for recirc pump to avoid overflow incase of stuck mash.
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1amp 10amp fuses, kettle element, inline GFCI protection
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I like you're control panel, looks like what I am building for my ebiab setup. I love the look of Kal's setup, but I want to find a balance between having enough control (switches) and information (lights) to be safe and effective which going too far overboard.

Can you give some info on the enclosure you used? It looks like a plastic junction box to me.

Cheers,
Andrew
 
Can you tell me more about your batch sparging method?

Heat strike water in HLT
Pump to Mash Tun
Rest for Mash Time
Return to Kettle

How many sparge additions do you do?
Where do you store additional sparge water?
How many runnings do you typically do, and when do you store the runnings?


Sorry for the 20 questions, but I'm interested in how batch sparging works with a 1 vessel/1 cooler setup! I'm not sure how to kettle/HLT can be used to heat sparge water AND collect runnings, but I'm sure I'm just missing something easy...
 
bigdubz said:
I like you're control panel, looks like what I am building for my ebiab setup. I love the look of Kal's setup, but I want to find a balance between having enough control (switches) and information (lights) to be safe and effective which going too far overboard.

Can you give some info on the enclosure you used? It looks like a plastic junction box to me.

Cheers,
Andrew


You are exactly right it is a plastic junction box 12"x12". I bought it at homedepot for around $30. I wanted to use plastic because its so easy to work with. I painted the front with Rust-Oleum Universal Hammered Paint and Primer in One. At first I wasn't sure if I was going to paint it but now I'm very happy I did. The switch tags are just printed out on printable sticky paper. I didn't go with a "safety kill switch" because the breaker is four feet away, but I do see how it could be handy if your not right next to the breaker.
 
Nice idea... clean and simple.

To bigdubz: you can make it a bit cleaner and simpler looking by using the push-button illuminated switches from Auber. You need half as many holes drilled in the front that way.

I'll try to remember upload a picture, but I did something similar to this for my control box, but also added an extra indicator light for the element so I can visually see when it's being fired. So instead of 9 holes like above, I have 6. I put this all in an ammo can.
 
sicklesr said:
Can you tell me more about your batch sparging method?

Heat strike water in HLT
Pump to Mash Tun
Rest for Mash Time
Return to Kettle

How many sparge additions do you do?
Where do you store additional sparge water?
How many runnings do you typically do, and when do you store the runnings?

Sorry for the 20 questions, but I'm interested in how batch sparging works with a 1 vessel/1 cooler setup! I'm not sure how to kettle/HLT can be used to heat sparge water AND collect runnings, but I'm sure I'm just missing something easy...

When I first saw two vessel systems I was pretty confused also. It's basically the "Brutus 20" except I also us gravity. What happens is in the BK I heat up mash water, pump to mash tun, rest. Then heat up more water in the BK/HLT and start draining the mash into the BK/HLT while at the same time recirculating back into the mash tun. So basically half the water is in the mash tun and half in the Bk/HLT during the recirc. Then once the Preboil gravity is correct, or close, stop the pump and drain into the BK to desired volume.
 
cupido76 said:
Nice idea... clean and simple.

To bigdubz: you can make it a bit cleaner and simpler looking by using the push-button illuminated switches from Auber. You need half as many holes drilled in the front that way.

I was going to go that route but decided I like the look of separate switches and lights like theelectricbrewery. Just a personal preference.
 
I like this idea of working with 120V ... How much the panel components did cost you ?
 
theQ said:
I like this idea of working with 120V ... How much the panel components did cost you ?

For just the electronics from Auber it was $200 shipped. But I found out that the other smaller stuff adds up quick. I've been piecing it together over a few months so there wasn't a huge upfront cost, but plan on around $300-$400 overall. Even though it is 120v all the plugs and outlets have to be rated 30a. It's not the same outlet as in a standard home, It actually looks like 240v stuff.
 
I was going to go that route but decided I like the look of separate switches and lights like theelectricbrewery. Just a personal preference.

Yup... and it looks great! I only went with the illuminated switches to have a chance at fitting it in an ammo can (which I already owned). :)
 
I brewed my first batch on this system last night and everything worked great. My Preboil volume was 7.5 gallons and the 3000w element had no problems bringing it to a rolling boil. I actually had to turn it down to 70%. Man is electric brewing amazing!
 
I ordered the same pump. I hear they are shipping now pretty quickly now that they have plenty of stock in, but I was not pleased with my experience. I ordered in early December and didn't get mine until last week. It took 3 emails inquiring about the pump before I heard anything back. Great pump but terrible customer service.
Corey
 
Let us know how that pump holds up. Thinking of getting it, just not sure about the reliability.

Make sure you paint or seal that wood hood, if you haven't done so already. wood+moisture=not good.

How long did it take roughly to bring that 7.5gals of mash temp wort to boil?

What happens is in the BK I heat up mash water, pump to mash tun, rest. Then heat up more water in the BK/HLT and start draining the mash into the BK/HLT while at the same time recirculating back into the mash tun. So basically half the water is in the mash tun and half in the Bk/HLT during the recirc.

So, when you heat up the additional water while mashing, is that extra water basically the difference between your mash water and pre-boil target volume? Seems like, in a way, when you add that 2nd volume of water your batch sparging?

Also, sorry- just one more question, how do you control the element power to 75%? I don't recall what part of the control panel controls power to the element.

I was planning a single kettle BIAB system, but your systems has its benefits. Mainly, you can control the mash thickness.

Nice job!
 
Make sure you paint or seal that wood hood, if you haven't done so already. wood+moisture=not good.
I actually changed the whole thing out with a stainless range hood for more power.
How long did it take roughly to bring that 7.5gals of mash temp wort to boil?
From mash temps to boil I believe its around 20*30mins. Seems about the same as my old turkey fryer.
So, when you heat up the additional water while mashing, is that extra water basically the difference between your mash water and pre*boil target volume? Seems like, in a way, when you add that 2nd volume of water your batch sparging?
In a way yes and no. I dont drain then add a 2nd volume, I just start a pump and recirculate all of it together until its all the same gravity. I put together a diagram for the fun of it so ill attach it here.



Also, sorry* just one more question, how do you control the element power to 75%? I don't recall what part of the control panel controls power to the element.
I have a Auber PID that controls the element. Once its close to boil I put it in manual mode down to desired percent.



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Nice diagram. It will help if I use this approach. I have a gott cooler, so there would be no added expense. Only trade off is its one more thing to clean, vs. a single vessel BIAB system.

If you need to heat the mash, I guess you could re-circulate through the hlt.?

Didn't know the auber could do that (control heat level).
 
kevreh said:
If you need to heat the mash, I guess you could re-circulate through the hlt.?

Yeah and I could probably do a step mash but haven't yet. For mash out all I do is set the PID to mash out temp while recirc and let it be.
 
Carlscan26 said:
Did you lose any heat while recirculating the mash?

Ill have to get back to you on that one. I have taken several readings at the end of the 60min mash and lose 1-2 degrees, then I start a mash recirc for around 15min and don't really care about the temp since the mash is done at that point. But next brew day ill try to remember to check it out.

Update: Brewing right now and checked the temp after 50 min mash and 10 min recirc. Temp dropped by 5 degrees. One thing to mention, when I start the full recirc I put the pid temp at whatever the mash should be and during the 45-60 recirc it holds that temp.
 
CalypsoCowboy said:
Is there a reason you recirculate the mash vs. Just letting it sit in the cooler for the 60 minutes?

I do let the mash sit for 45-60min then recirc/vorlauf so when I start draining it into the boil kettle it's clear wort.
 
Hey ddahl84

I really like your build, looking to build something very similar myself
I was wondering if you had any updates ? Improvements ?
Anything you would change ?

And, do you think you could do the same as a one tier with two pumps ?
Oh, and how is that 12v pump holding up ?

Thanks
Steve
 
Hey ddahl84
And, do you think you could do the same as a one tier with two pumps ?
Oh, and how is that 12v pump holding up ?

Thanks
Steve
Steve,

I've been researching this method as well. I want to do BIAB, but I don't want to lift heavy bags of hot dripping grain. It's not that I'm not strong enough; I don't want to make a mess.

Search the electric forum for "brutus 20". Someone out there has 2 kettles set up with each recirculating back to a connection in their respective lids. When you're ready to do the "cross-sparge" (the recirculating back and forth between kettles), you simply swap lids. This is a single-tier with 2 pumps.

http://www.alenuts.com/Alenuts/brutus20.html
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/brewery-concept-planning-stage-please-review-452347/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/2-vessel-system-291421/

I'm thinking that the simplest form of this mimics BIAB: you start with your entire volume of water and simply transfer half of it to the MT for mashing.

Keith
 
Quick question, ddahl84,
How high is the top of your MT? Do you stir your mash a few times during the mash? I like the idea of a 2-tier system, because you can get away with a single pump while the down-draining is managed by gravity. The problem, to me, is that the mashtun might be too high to easily stir.
Thanks,
Keith
 
Nice job! I especially like the the aluminum tag! ;)

I was going to go that route but decided I like the look of separate switches and lights like theelectricbrewery. Just a personal preference.
You and me both! When I designed mine I looked at combined lights & switches but didn't really like them either. Personal preference like you said.

Enjoy the setup!

Kal
 
Thanks for the nice complements. Sorry it's taken so long to reply. The couple of things I have changed is the float switch in the mash tun, because the cheep plastic ones where not reliable and stuck under mash temps, and made a nicer switch with alarm for the solenoid water filler.
ImageUploadedByHome Brew1391197694.598839.jpgImageUploadedByHome Brew1391197706.864708.jpgImageUploadedByHome Brew1391197718.084769.jpg

The pump has been great. I've done over 20 batches with it and love it. I really like the fact it's DC because I have wires running up my mash tun going to a relay to control the recirc.

In my opinion I like the two tier rather than two pumps. One pump is enough for something to go wrong.

I do have to put hops in a bag now otherwise it plugs up the pump.
One more thing to anyone starting a build in there house. Don't skimp on the ventilation. I tried bath fans, range hoods, and the only thing that ended up working was a Hydrofarm 400cfm in-line duct fan. 80$ on amazon. Do this first you won't regret it.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Quick question, ddahl84,

How high is the top of your MT? Do you stir your mash a few times during the mash? I like the idea of a 2-tier system, because you can get away with a single pump while the down-draining is managed by gravity. The problem, to me, is that the mashtun might be too high to easily stir.

Thanks,

Keith

58 inches to the top of the mash tun.

I don't stir during the mash. To me that sounds like stuck mash problems waiting to happen.

There's two things I've done.
Used a step stool to pour the grain in or just taken the mash tun down filled it up then lifted it back up.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Starting to assemble the components for a copy of your system. Can you give some sourcing information for the 3000 w 120v water heater element and the inline GFCI. The heater element looks like a foldover, does that mean it is a low density unit? If not, have you experienced any scotching?

Neal M



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Starting to assemble the components for a copy of your system. Can you give some sourcing information for the 3000 w 120v water heater element and the inline GFCI. The heater element looks like a foldover, does that mean it is a low density unit? If not, have you experienced any scotching?

Neal M



Sent from my iPad using Home Brew


That's great! I would like to see pics when your finished.
The heating element is from usatankless.com/3000w-120v.html
I don't know if is high or low density but I have had no problems with scorching. Most of the beers that I have received medals for have been light german lagers"Helles" and it's never been a problem. I did soak the element in strong starsan to remove the top layer and expose only the copper underneath.
The GFCI I got from eBay. It was pricey too around $80.



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
You should try a biab batch and see if your efficiency changes. I have a single vessel e-brewery, and only get @65% efficiency. I have a gott cooler, so going to your setup is possible. Just dont know if I would see improvements.
 
ddahl84,

Finished phase one of my version of the " Different E-Brewery ." Phase one being the manual mode version without PID temperature control. I've done two runs so far, one a SMASH pale ale and the other a robust porter. Got efficiencies into the BK of 75 and 45 percentages respectively. In the latter case I was inattentive and partially ran the MLT dry so I probably got channels in the mash that resulted in the poor efficiency. On my list is some way to control the liquid level in the MLT so as to NOT run it dry again.
As with yours it is 100% 120v/30 A 3000W. I manage to score a 120v 30a GFCI on ebay that would fit my panel, so I ran a dedicated line for the brewery. My control box is a dual control panel that is either PID controlled or analog. The analog circuit is used for the BK boil control while the PID will be for temp control.
With regard to your float system, do you control the pump outflow with an electric valve or turn the pump on and off? Also, where did you get that SS metal float switch?

attached see some pictures:
ImageUploadedByHome Brew1413746778.695396.jpgImageUploadedByHome Brew1413746802.372740.jpgImageUploadedByHome Brew1413746848.415008.jpg

sorry for the poor quality pics.

neal_m
ImageUploadedByHome Brew1413746741.195905.jpg





Sent from my iPad using Home Brew
 
I should add that no more lifting 5 gallons of hot water and worrying about whether I'll run out of propane. The worst case scenario not is moving the fermenter from the BK to the temp control chamber. I'm a happy camper.:ban:

NealM
 
I like this idea of working with 120V ... How much the panel components did cost you ?


That IS a pretty slick system but I'm not sure I understand the reasoning for running a 30a 120v line?
To me its was just as much work running 10g 10/3 line however now you are limited to a non ULWD 3000w element max. Plus, wont it cost more to operate than if you just put the extra breaker in the box and run 220v... Ironically the spa panel gfci is actually cheaper at $56 for $220 at home depot...
also element selection will be pretty limited.
I use a lot of the same stuff in my build as I see in the pics here including the tan 12v pumps and the plastic enclosure,and even stainless float sensor in the MT which works well for me recircullating in my single tier system with my $50 rims element...I recirculate the whole 60mins this way so my wort comes out crystal clear. I find thos pumps work much better if they are not mounted much lower than the base of the kettles...I mount mine directly to the ball valves.
good call on the manual mypin TD4
just a heads up heres a link to the manual mode version pid I just bought...I use three of them and this is the cheapest I've seen them yet. (under $20)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231206228037?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Oh yeah just wanted to mention that looks like the same $20-25 black pump I have too but I stopped using it for hot wort now that the jurys out and the manufacturer told another member here that they are abs plastic and in fact NOT food safe for hot liquid.
 
That IS a pretty slick system but I'm not sure I understand the reasoning for running a 30a 120v line?
To me its was just as much work running 10g 10/3 line however now you are limited to a non ULWD 3000w element max. Plus, wont it cost more to operate than if you just put the extra breaker in the box and run 220v... Ironically the spa panel gfci is actually cheaper at $56 for $220 at home depot...
also element selection will be pretty limited.

Good points, but maybe he had other restrictions. Some folks are more comfortable working with 120v. For my system, I ran 240v to a spa gfci panel. Wouldn't have it any other way.

I use a lot of the same stuff in my build as I see in the pics here including the tan 12v pumps and the plastic enclosure,and even stainless float sensor in the MT which works well for me recircullating in my single tier system with my $50 rims element...I recirculate the whole 60mins this way so my wort comes out crystal clear. I find thos pumps work much better if they are not mounted much lower than the base of the kettles...I mount mine directly to the ball valves.
good call on the manual mypin TD4
just a heads up heres a link to the manual mode version pid I just bought...I use three of them and this is the cheapest I've seen them yet. (under $20)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231206228037?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Oh yeah just wanted to mention that looks like the same $20-25 black pump I have too but I stopped using it for hot wort now that the jurys out and the manufacturer told another member here that they are abs plastic and in fact NOT food safe for hot liquid.

Since there's some open questions with ddahls automatic level controls, can you explain your approach? Does the float sensor turn the pump off? Is there another sensor in your kettle with the element, to prevent dry heating?

What mfctr are we talking about? I have the 12v pumps and didn't know they said that.
 
Good points, but maybe he had other restrictions. Some folks are more comfortable working with 120v. For my system, I ran 240v to a spa gfci panel. Wouldn't have it any other way.



Since there's some open questions with ddahls automatic level controls, can you explain your approach? Does the float sensor turn the pump off? Is there another sensor in your kettle with the element, to prevent dry heating?

What mfctr are we talking about? I have the 12v pumps and didn't know they said that.

my float sensor is in my mash tun only... it turns the pump on and off when sparging to maintain a constant desired amount of liquid on the grainbed as it drains... super easy to wire because you wire it like a simple switch in the power line. i may add a HLT sensor soon.

As far as the pumps... not all are bad for hot food/liquid contact just the specific one mentioned here along with most of the other black ones that look a lot like the topsflo brand ones but are sold at the 20-30 price range these are abs plastic which leech nasty stuff when hot.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/review-3-3-gpm-pump-only-26-99-amazon-494876/

the tan ones and actual topsflo ones are in fact food safe.
 
This is very similar to the system I planed, I never did build it I got shiny fever and built a Braumeister type. I still have the float switches for it, who knows I may build it yet as although the BM type is great it is inflexible.

May I ask how often the pump switches on and off? I was worried that it would damaged by repeated on/off cycling.

Great build :)

Aamcle
 

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