Bottle conditioning with invert sugar/syrup?

I'm getting cheep and lazy, and was wondering how I can bottle condition with invert sugar/syrup.

I already know how to make invert syrup, I used it in my last triple, I am just wondering how much table sugar to start with to end up with 2 volumes CO2, for a five gallon batch of ale fermented at 68f?

Here's a happy hippie just for fun. :fro:

Well technically some folks believe that sugar inverts itself on it's own in the boil WITHOUT the need for an acid to do it. Therefore if you subscribe to that notion, then EVERY time you are boiling your priming sugar, you are inverting it.

*shrug*

I'm trying to figure out what's cheaper and lazier than boiling 5 oz of priming sugar in 2 cups of water? Seems to me that if you go the extra route to invert it by adding cream of tartar, lemon juice, ascorbic acid or whatever your preferred method is, then you are doing more work.

Thanks Revvy, I was thinking that it might not make a difference after boiling the sugar/water, but why did I go through the effort to invert the table sugar to make my triple? It definitely had a different taste than boiled table sugar, almost marshmallowy and topaz colored.

From another thread, Revvy pointed to this .pdf from Northern Brewer which has a good amount of information on bottle conditioning with invert syrup.

I'm a noob, but it seems to me if bottle conditioning with invert sugars that the beasties would have an easier time with the remaining task of carbonation. If my line of thought holds, I guess my question is, isn't there value in this since so many yeast may be lost to racking to secondaries etc.?

Well, I looked up dextrose and priming sugar on Wiki and they both lead to the same page, Glucose.

Then I looked up invert sugar/syrup, guess what? Glucose and fructose, basically same as above, simple sugar.

So I guess most of us already use it, we just call it by a different name--priming sugar or dextrose not invert sugar or glucose.

The point of my post was--why buy PrimingSugar/Dextrose/Glucose, when you can make it on your stovetop from C&H Cane Sugar(Sucrose) and lemon juice?

Those pre-measured bags from the LHBS are pricy in compairison.

Hex said:

The point of my post was--why buy PrimingSugar/Dextrose/Glucose, when you can make it on your stovetop

Click to expand...

Technically you can't make priming sugar from cane sugar. Priming sugar is corn sugar.

You can however make any kind of Candi/invert sugar from that.

I've said it for years, I think it's ridiculous to buy Belgian Candi Sugar/Syrup, when we can easily make our own, just how you suggested..

The Joke on us is, "Belgian candi sugar" is really just whatever sugar the monks and Belgian brewers bought in bulk, then inverted and boiled down to whatever darkness they wanted in their beer.

It's not a special magical sugar, grown for them by secret society of castrated elves specially for the monks to brew beer with. It was whatever was reasonably priced in bulk. More often than not it was beet, but it could have been cane, depending on what traders had for them...but "Belgian Candi Sugar" is really just "the sugar that the belgians happened to use." And to me, buying overpriced sugar is ridiculus, especially when you can make your own. I think that the original Belgian Monks would laugh at us silly American homebrewers who pay 3 times as much for it from the LHBS, when we can buy it from bulk food warehouse.

Graham Sanders on the aussie craft brewer radio first brought it up with one of those authors of Beligian Style books, can't recall who.

We've been discussing it for years.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/quick-interesting-read-dubbels-99971/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/candi-sugar-necessity-148786/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/candi-syrup-all-out-stock-128960/#post1445241

And many even argue that if you're just using "clear" cadi sugar or syrup, then just dump it directly in the kettle, since the sugar theoretically inverts itself during the boil. If you are using darker grades in your recipes, then inverting them with a little cream of tartar, citric acid, lemon juice or vinegar, and pre carmalizing them to the level you want is a good idea. There are "recipes" for making candi in both rock and syryp form. It's really easy. No harder than making Candy.

I think the original Belgian brewers would laugh if they knew how much we silly american homebrewrs actually pay for supposed "gourmet brewing sugar." They sure as heck wouldn't pay what we do.

Hex said:

...I am just wondering how much table sugar to start with to end up with 2 volumes CO2, for a five gallon batch of ale fermented at 68f?

Click to expand...

Hate to have to answer my own question, but hey maybe someone else won't have to ask it and find the answer here:
Priming Sugar Calculator - Northern Brewer

So priming sugar is 'corn' sugar which is called dextrose or glucose (monosaccaride).
Cane sugar is sucrose (disaccaride), which can be inverted (decomposed) into glucose and fructose (both monosaccarides).

Modnosaccarides are easier to digest than disaccarides, they taste sweeter too, and both priming sugar (corn) and inverted table sugar (cane) provide monosaccarides that can be used to prime/bottle condition beer...

And in conclusion,

You should use less Sucrose (cane sugar) when inverting, than Priming Sugar (corn sugar). Plugging in the numbers (2 volumes CO2, 68 deg. F, and 5 gallons beer) into Priming Sugar Calculator - Northern Brewer , one would use 79.6 grams cane sugar INVERTED, compared to 87.4 grams corn sugar.

Bi-winning! :fro:

I do love how you're answering yourself in your own thread.

*snicker*