GF Tripel Recipe

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DKershner

DKershner

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Dorklord asked me some questions in PMs, then his inbox was full, so I thought I would just post it here, since you guys can probably help anyway.

dorklord said:
dkershner said:
dorklord said:
I noticed in one of your posts, you mentioned a GF Belgian Tripel, I'd be interested in what the recipe on that was. Belgian beers were my favorites I'm aiming to try a Tripel and a belgian witbier if I can find a good recipe (in other words, one that comes with a recommendation from someone who's actually drank it!) and the ingredients (still haven't found my GF brown rice syrup...)
Thanks,

Chris
Click to expand...

http://brew.dkershner.com/2009/gluten-free-tripel-blonde/

You can see my tasting notes and what I would do better next time. I would also use white labs belgian yeast if you (or the consumer) can handle 2ppm gluten.

For the record, I think the wit will come out better. Easy to hide sorghum with coriander and orange peel.
Click to expand...

Well, my favorite tripel actually has coriander in it, so I figured I'd toss some in...So, are you saying you'd use the Trappist High Gravity yeast? And for rice syrup and sugar, about how much would you use? I've heard some people say too much plain sugar will result in a 'cidery' taste, and I've been wondering if the sorghum flavor sort of 'blends' with that or if I should spring for candi sugar.

I'm probably going to order (or find) some rice syrup/rice solids (I wonder if the rice solids from midwest or NB are GF?) for this, since I've probably got another week before I transfer my non-GF tripel to the secondary...
Click to expand...

I wouldn't worry too much about a cidery taste. There are some people who have experimented in this forum with 50%+ to no cidery taste. Candi sugar really wouldn't help anyway, but imparts a slightly different flavor. I wouldn't worry about it.

Trappist high gravity is my favorite belgian yeast, but id use the wit for the wit. Make sure you are getting White labs not Wyeast.

No idea about the rice solids...or what those are. You can always ask them, NB has good customer service.
 
dkershner said:
Dorklord asked me some questions in PMs, then his inbox was full, so I thought I would just post it here, since you guys can probably help anyway.



I wouldn't worry too much about a cidery taste. There are some people who have experimented in this forum with 50%+ to no cidery taste. Candi sugar really wouldn't help anyway, but imparts a slightly different flavor. I wouldn't worry about it.

Trappist high gravity is my favorite belgian yeast, but id use the wit for the wit. Make sure you are getting White labs not Wyeast.

No idea about the rice solids...or what those are. You can always ask them, NB has good customer service.
Click to expand...

Apparently rice syrup solids is fully dried rice syrup, sort of like DME vs LME.

I guess for some reason I thought I had read that wyeast was low in gluten, but I must have been confusing that with white labs.

So, It sounds like a ratio of 5 or 1 to one, sorghum to rice, is a good start, and roughly how much would you increase the sugar?

Right now, I'm thinking:

6 lbs of Sorghum syrup
1 lb rice syrup
3 lbs of sugar (corn sugar)
1 oz coriander
?? Malto dextrin
Some yeast nutrient (just to be sure)

And then I'll hops per your Tripel recipe. I think I'll probably spring for the white labs trappist yeast, I was a little worried about the shipping of the liquid yeast, but I was told not to worry (have a home brew...) and just put it in the fridge when I get it.
 
dkershner said:
Trappist high gravity is my favorite belgian yeast, but id use the wit for the wit. Make sure you are getting White labs not Wyeast.
Click to expand...

Are you sure about this? I think the Wyeast high gravity is the westmalle strain, i have used it in several belgian dark strongs and tripels, some of which have won awards.

I think you're confusing the Wyeast Trappist High Gravity (Wyeast 3787) and the White Labs super high gravity (WLP099). In which case I'm guessing you meant "Make sure you're getting wyeast and not white labs"
 
jjp36 said:
Are you sure about this? I think the Wyeast high gravity is the westmalle strain, i have used it in several belgian dark strongs and tripels, some of which have won awards.

I think you're confusing the Wyeast Trappist High Gravity (Wyeast 3787) and the White Labs super high gravity (WLP099). In which case I'm guessing you meant "Make sure you're getting wyeast and not white labs"
Click to expand...

I think he is saying to get white labs because of the gluten. I had thought that wyeast was the ones who had low gluten in their liquid yeasts, but after he mentioned that, I went back and looked, and every reference I could find was to white labs saying their yeast is < 12 ppm in the slurry, nothing from wyeast (other than that at some point they had made a gluten free liquid yeast, but it appears to be unavailable now).
 
dorklord said:
I think he is saying to get white labs because of the gluten. I had thought that wyeast was the ones who had low gluten in their liquid yeasts, but after he mentioned that, I went back and looked, and every reference I could find was to white labs saying their yeast is < 12 ppm in the slurry, nothing from wyeast (other than that at some point they had made a gluten free liquid yeast, but it appears to be unavailable now).
Click to expand...

All correct. ~12ppm in the slurry or ~2ppm in the final product. 2ppm is below the European standard for "Gluten-free". No such standard yet exists in the US.

For gluten-free: Dry > White labs >>>>>>> Wyeast.

There is also a dry yeast you can try called 'Brewferm Blanche'. I have never tried it nor have I tried to confirm it is Gluten free, but I think it is Belgian style.
 
dorklord said:
Apparently rice syrup solids is fully dried rice syrup, sort of like DME vs LME.

I guess for some reason I thought I had read that wyeast was low in gluten, but I must have been confusing that with white labs.

So, It sounds like a ratio of 5 or 1 to one, sorghum to rice, is a good start, and roughly how much would you increase the sugar?

Right now, I'm thinking:

6 lbs of Sorghum syrup
1 lb rice syrup
3 lbs of sugar (corn sugar)
1 oz coriander
?? Malto dextrin
Some yeast nutrient (just to be sure)

And then I'll hops per your Tripel recipe. I think I'll probably spring for the white labs trappist yeast, I was a little worried about the shipping of the liquid yeast, but I was told not to worry (have a home brew...) and just put it in the fridge when I get it.
Click to expand...

Order the liquid yeast while it is still cold out. ;)

Those sugars put you at about 1.069, i'd bump up one of em to get you 1.075+.

1oz coriander is A LOT. That's fine if you love the taste, or plan to age a long time, but I would go with less.

No malto dextrin necessary, Tripels can be pretty dry. If you want a bit more body/sweetness, toss in an ounce or two at any time in the process.

As for sorghum to rice ratios...the rice syrup is basically just sugar, but imparts a different flavor. I would just use a sugar vs extract ratio instead, and 6:4 is a fine one, I'd wouldn't be afraid of 6:5...though I am afraid when you get near 50%. Some others have tried it with success though.
 
dkershner said:
Order the liquid yeast while it is still cold out. ;)

Those sugars put you at about 1.069, i'd bump up one of em to get you 1.075+.

1oz coriander is A LOT. That's fine if you love the taste, or plan to age a long time, but I would go with less.

No malto dextrin necessary, Tripels can be pretty dry. If you want a bit more body/sweetness, toss in an ounce or two at any time in the process.

As for sorghum to rice ratios...the rice syrup is basically just sugar, but imparts a different flavor. I would just use a sugar vs extract ratio instead, and 6:4 is a fine one, I'd wouldn't be afraid of 6:5...though I am afraid when you get near 50%. Some others have tried it with success though.
Click to expand...

I don't have my OG calc handy, but I think another quarter pound of corn sugar (I'm adding more sugar because I'm only ordering 1 lb of rice syrup) should put me at 1.078. I used the 1 oz amount of coriander because that's what goes in the belgian wit recipe I've got and that's the size they sell it in, but I was actually thinking that I'd use less, maybe a quarter or half of that. I like the Tripel I drank before I got diagnosed with Celiacs, (New Belgian) and I also like the various belgian witbiers I've had (which all have coriander and bitter orange) but I don't know for sure how much they actually use, I'm guessing less in the Tripel than the witbier. I figure the Tripel probably will have to age for a while, but I'm hoping it can be done quicker than the 3 months my non-gf Tripel says it will take!

I've seen a few posts saying that malto dextrin is the 'magic ingredient' for giving GF beers body and head (and I guess alcohol is the soul :cross: ) though I'm sure the amount varies based on the 'type' of beer. Since this is a tripel, I don't want it to be too heavy, but I also don't want it to be too dry and to lack head, so I figured I'd toss in an ounce and see how it goes.
 
If you do want to speed the process along, forget what I said about upping the OG. More alcohol = more aging. For something in the 1.08 range, malty, and has some spice in it, I would think 6 months - 1 year would be ideal. Of course, you can do whatever you like, it's your beer! :mug: You might save a couple though.

1oz coriander in a 5gal wit is pronounced, but not overpowering. I would think you would want something less than that in a tripel.

Maltodextrin does near nothing for head, or head retention. It might if there was soemthing there to begin with... All it really does is add body and sweetness. Use accordingly!
 
dkershner said:
If you do want to speed the process along, forget what I said about upping the OG. More alcohol = more aging. For something in the 1.08 range, malty, and has some spice in it, I would think 6 months - 1 year would be ideal. Of course, you can do whatever you like, it's your beer! :mug: You might save a couple though.

1oz coriander in a 5gal wit is pronounced, but not overpowering. I would think you would want something less than that in a tripel.

Maltodextrin does near nothing for head, or head retention. It might if there was soemthing there to begin with... All it really does is add body and sweetness. Use accordingly!
Click to expand...

Well, since this is going to be my first GF brew...I don't want to wait too long. If it needs to age for 6 months, I doubt much of it will last that long. I know I want less than 1 oz in the Tripel, I'm just not sure how much...I'm thinkin a quarter to half an ounce. Then I'll have a little left for the next batch (which will probably be Wit, and will probably involve doing something to buckwheat or millet).
 
dkershner said:
Maltodextrin does near nothing for head, or head retention. It might if there was soemthing there to begin with... All it really does is add body and sweetness. Use accordingly!
Click to expand...

I've noticed this as well and since it doesn't seem to do what I want I sometimes forget to add it. Every now and then I get a beer with fantastic head though!
 
dorklord said:
Well, since this is going to be my first GF brew...I don't want to wait too long. If it needs to age for 6 months, I doubt much of it will last that long. I know I want less than 1 oz in the Tripel, I'm just not sure how much...I'm thinkin a quarter to half an ounce. Then I'll have a little left for the next batch (which will probably be Wit, and will probably involve doing something to buckwheat or millet).
Click to expand...

Sounds good, I would do a .25/.75 split.

And like I said, you don't have to wait, but keep a couple bottles that long and see what happens.
 
dkershner said:
Sounds good, I would do a .25/.75 split.

And like I said, you don't have to wait, but keep a couple bottles that long and see what happens.
Click to expand...

I doubt I'll be able to drink it all in a few months, anyway. Of course, how much other people want will be directly proportional to how good it comes out!

I keep checking the airlock on that non-gf tripel, I'm really hoping for a fast fermentation so I can transfer it to a carboy...

Speaking of which, I've heard people say there is significantly less krausen that forms on the GF beer, do you have a guess how much headspace you would need to safely ferment in a carboy? I could shoot for, say, a 4.5 gallon batch if that would let me primary in one of my carboys, and that might let me brew this batch on Saturday even if the Tripel isn't ready to transfer.
 
@dorklord
You PM'd me too, but my inbox was full. Looks like we both need to look into upgrading our accounts.

Based on the discussion above, I think it might be a good strategy to brew 2 batches back to back. First brew a GF Wit so that you have lots of tasty beer within a month. And right after that then brew your GF Trippel. My reasons are empirical in that my first beer was a Trippel and I was so excited to drink it I had to try some, and it was decent. Then I tried some more, and some more, by the time I got to the end and it had aged for 3 months it was one of the best beers I've ever had...and I only had 2 more bottles. Start with a GF Wit, and by the time you run out your GF Trippel will be close to being ready.

Regarding the GF Wit recipe that you asked for, I don't have the recipe on-hand and am not nearly as organized as dkershner, but here's what I remember from the recipe:

GF Wit - Extract Edition
2 cups Quinoa
2 cups Buckwheat
2 cups Millet
You can malt, then toast/kiln the grains, or be lazy and just soak & toast the grains to desired level since they're specialty grains. Allow to off-gas for at least a few days before brewing.*

Extract:
6lbs Sorghum LME
1.25lbs GF Brown Rice LME (or 1lb Rice Syrup Solids will work)

Spices:
orange zest, corriander, and maybe some paradise seeds.
Follow your favorite beer in this style's clone recipe for tips.


Hops:
Can't remember which, just follow your favorite beer's clone and you should be fine.

Yeast:
White Labs Wit - Do not make a starter, Wits and Hefeweizens work better if you don't. Some people even recommend half-pitching to get better flavors.
(Note: White Labs will have up to 2ppm at the end. This is fine for most people, but if you or the consumer is super-sensitive then it could be an issue.)

Ferment:
Follow schedule of the yeast and your favorite clone recipe

Taste:
Delicious. I'm actually making it again next week.

I'll try to get the actual measurements from my sheet at home if I think about it this evening.

*Wit's use unmalted wheat anyway, so you could say you're being more authentic by NOT malting the grains.

Enjoy your first batch, cheers to good beer!
 
dorklord said:
Speaking of which, I've heard people say there is significantly less krausen that forms on the GF beer, do you have a guess how much headspace you would need to safely ferment in a carboy? I could shoot for, say, a 4.5 gallon batch if that would let me primary in one of my carboys, and that might let me brew this batch on Saturday even if the Tripel isn't ready to transfer.
Click to expand...

Krausen isn't something I'd experiment with just yet. Once you've brewed a batch and know what your typical levels are, then plan for less. However, while most GF beers have a bit less krausen you don't want to find out the batch you put in a small container was the exception.

Because if you do you might get a stuck airlock, which then pressurizes the bottle while you're at work and then it explodes all over your closet, your clothes, the ceiling, the floor, the furniture in a nearby room, your computer, the walls... Not that that's happened to me, I would never do something dumb like stick an airlock on a Double IPA.
 
Krausen levels depends on yeast, fermentable sugars, proteins, temperature, yeast cell counts, and probably 7 other things. If you are using champagne yeast, you can use a smaller primary. If not, don't risk it, aggieotis provides a lovely description of why.

I have not noticed any difference in gluten free vs glutenous, though the proteins I named above would suggest slightly less krausen.

Also, I agree with aggieotis' scheduling. Wits are quick, you can drink it while you wait on the tripel. I never liked the taste of my tripel (too sorghumy) but I cannot tell you how much better it is after 6 months, night and day.
 
aggieotis said:
@dorklord
You PM'd me too, but my inbox was full. Looks like we both need to look into upgrading our accounts.

Based on the discussion above, I think it might be a good strategy to brew 2 batches back to back. First brew a GF Wit so that you have lots of tasty beer within a month. And right after that then brew your GF Trippel. My reasons are empirical in that my first beer was a Trippel and I was so excited to drink it I had to try some, and it was decent. Then I tried some more, and some more, by the time I got to the end and it had aged for 3 weeks it was one of the best beers I've ever had...and I only had 2 more bottles. Start with a GF Wit, and by the time you run out your GF Trippel will be close to being ready.

Regarding the GF Wit recipe that you asked for, I don't have the recipe on-hand and am not nearly as organized as dkershner, but here's what I remember from the recipe:

GF Wit - Extract Edition
2 cups Quinoa
2 cups Buckwheat
2 cups Millet
You can malt, then toast/kiln the grains, or be lazy and just soak & toast the grains to desired level since they're specialty grains. Allow to off-gas for at least a few days before brewing.*

Extract:
6lbs Sorghum LME
1.25lbs GF Brown Rice LME (or 1lb Rice Syrup Solids will work)

Spices:
orange zest, corriander, and maybe some paradise seeds.
Follow your favorite beer in this style's clone recipe for tips.


Hops:
Can't remember which, just follow your favorite beer's clone and you should be fine.

Yeast:
White Labs Wit - Do not make a starter, Wits and Hefeweizens work better if you don't. Some people even recommend half-pitching to get better flavors.
(Note: White Labs will have up to 2ppm at the end. This is fine for most people, but if you or the consumer is super-sensitive then it could be an issue.)

Ferment:
Follow schedule of the yeast and your favorite clone recipe

Taste:
Delicious. I'm actually making it again next week.

I'll try to get the actual measurements from my sheet at home if I think about it this evening.

*Wit's use unmalted wheat anyway, so you could say you're being more authentic by NOT malting the grains.

Enjoy your first batch, cheers to good beer!
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info! I already have some millet and buckwheat, but I haven't found any quinoa. (I looked at the local coop, they had quinoa flour but nothing 'whole' or 'husked' or such.) Any suggestions on substitution?

I'll have to look around for the instructions on roasting the grains as well, I think I saw them around here someplace...
 
dorklord said:
Thanks for the info! I already have some millet and buckwheat, but I haven't found any quinoa. (I looked at the local coop, they had quinoa flour but nothing 'whole' or 'husked' or such.) Any suggestions on substitution?

I'll have to look around for the instructions on roasting the grains as well, I think I saw them around here someplace...
Click to expand...

Try costco...as weird as it seems...
 
aggieotis said:
Krausen isn't something I'd experiment with just yet. Once you've brewed a batch and know what your typical levels are, then plan for less. However, while most GF beers have a bit less krausen you don't want to find out the batch you put in a small container was the exception.

Because if you do you might get a stuck airlock, which then pressurizes the bottle while you're at work and then it explodes all over your closet, your clothes, the ceiling, the floor, the furniture in a nearby room, your computer, the walls... Not that that's happened to me, I would never do something dumb like stick an airlock on a Double IPA.
Click to expand...

I guess my question is simply, how large of a batch can I safely ferment in a 5 gallon carboy? If I can safely ferment a 5 gallon batch in a 6.5 gallon container, can I do 4 gallons in a 5 gallon container, or is that too much?
 
dorklord said:
I guess my question is simply, how large of a batch can I safely ferment in a 5 gallon carboy? If I can safely ferment a 5 gallon batch in a 6.5 gallon container, can I do 4 gallons in a 5 gallon container, or is that too much?
Click to expand...

Should be good with 4gal. I ferment 5gal in a corny keg without much trouble. Not on my big beers though.

Coincidently, 4-4.5gal is also the largest you can do on a stove or with a 2000w water heater element full boil.
 
dkershner said:
Try costco...as weird as it seems...
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, there's not one of those (or a whole foods) within a hundred miles of here.

I checked the various grocery stores (woodmans, festival, didn't bother checking walmart) and the coop. The other choices are basically to order it, I think Bob's Red Mill lists it, but there' I'm looking at 10 bucks for a 1.5 lb bag, plus shipping...ouch.

If only I could reverse mill the quinoa flour back into grain :p
 
dorklord said:
Unfortunately, there's not one of those (or a whole foods) within a hundred miles of here.

I checked the various grocery stores (woodmans, festival, didn't bother checking walmart) and the coop. The other choices are basically to order it, I think Bob's Red Mill lists it, but there' I'm looking at 10 bucks for a 1.5 lb bag, plus shipping...ouch.

If only I could reverse mill the quinoa flour back into grain :p
Click to expand...

Just use your Millet and Buckwheat. Nothing around this forum is a set and sure thing. Could be you find the perfect mixture.

Although, I think Quinoa is probably the closest GF to wheat grain due to the nutrient profile from www.nutritiondata.com
Non-GF Grains Carbs/Fats/Protein; Fullness Factor/ND Weighting; %RDA of Calcium/Iron;
Wheat: 71/16/13; 3.4/4.6; 4/34
Barley: 87/3/10; 2.9/3.3; 6/28
Rye: 81/6/13; 2.4/3.7; 6/25
Oats: 70/15/15; 2.2/3.5; 8/41

GF Grains
Quinoa: 70/15/15; 2.0/3.6; 8/43
Millet: 80/9/11; 2.0/3.1; 2/33
Buckwheat: 79/8/13; 2.1/3.5; 3/21
Sorghum: 89/8/3; 2.0/2.9; 5/47
Oats: 70/15/15; 2.2/3.5; 8/41
Chestnuts: 89/4/7; 1.6/3.5; 1/4
Amaranth: 71/16/13; 2.0/3.9; 31/82
Teff: 80/6/14; 2.0/3.8; 35/82

The numbers are definitely fudgy at best and miss a lot of the important micronutrients like FAN, but the crude profile indicates that for Beer production:
Wheat ~ Amaranth, Quinoa
Barley ~ Sorghum, Chestnuts
Rye ~ Millet, Buckwheat, Teff
Oats ~ GF Oats (duh), Quinoa, Amaranth
 
aggieotis said:
Just use your Millet and Buckwheat. Nothing around this forum is a set and sure thing. Could be you find the perfect mixture.

Although, I think Quinoa is probably the closest GF to wheat grain due to the nutrient profile from www.nutritiondata.com
Non-GF Grains Carbs/Fats/Protein; Fullness Factor/ND Weighting; %RDA of Calcium/Iron;
Wheat: 71/16/13; 3.4/4.6; 4/34
Barley: 87/3/10; 2.9/3.3; 6/28
Rye: 81/6/13; 2.4/3.7; 6/25
Oats: 70/15/15; 2.2/3.5; 8/41

GF Grains
Quinoa: 70/15/15; 2.0/3.6; 8/43
Millet: 80/9/11; 2.0/3.1; 2/33
Buckwheat: 79/8/13; 2.1/3.5; 3/21
Sorghum: 89/8/3; 2.0/2.9; 5/47
Oats: 70/15/15; 2.2/3.5; 8/41
Chestnuts: 89/4/7; 1.6/3.5; 1/4
Amaranth: 71/16/13; 2.0/3.9; 31/82
Teff: 80/6/14; 2.0/3.8; 35/82

The numbers are definitely fudgy at best and miss a lot of the important micronutrients like FAN, but the crude profile indicates that for Beer production:
Wheat ~ Amaranth, Quinoa
Barley ~ Sorghum, Chestnuts
Rye ~ Millet, Buckwheat, Teff
Oats ~ GF Oats (duh), Quinoa, Amaranth
Click to expand...

I was in luck today, I went to pick up some other stuff at the grocery store, and there it was: quinoa. :ban:

It was expensive, but I got it. I didn't get much, so...hopefully I don't need to many attempts at roasting.

So, when you said soak and toast...is that procedure outlined someplace? And if so, how 'toasty' do I want?
 
dorklord said:
Well, I guess, "What's the normal roasting level for a wit". I assume fairly low.
Click to expand...

In the Wit I made I didn't even use grains and it turned out great. But if I were going to roast grains for it myself, I'd watch them pretty closely and pull them once they started to turn color- otherwise you'll get a darker result. In my experience, the grain is almost always darker after a few weeks of wafting than when I pulled them from the oven.

Oh- and apparently roasting the grains wet brings out more color- so if you do this, keep a good eye on them!
 
lcasanova said:
In the Wit I made I didn't even use grains and it turned out great. But if I were going to roast grains for it myself, I'd watch them pretty closely and pull them once they started to turn color- otherwise you'll get a darker result. In my experience, the grain is almost always darker after a few weeks of wafting than when I pulled them from the oven.

Oh- and apparently roasting the grains wet brings out more color- so if you do this, keep a good eye on them!
Click to expand...

What did you use for the fermentables?

I'm afraid of getting in trouble for smoking up the house, so I might wait for at least a batch to get to the drinkable stage before I start in on that. I've got plenty of sorghum, maltodextrin, and rice solids, coriander and orange peel, so I think I'm ready to brew something GF on Saturday. If my tripel is ready to transfer, great, if not, I'll just go a little light on my ingredients and shoot for a 4 gallon batch.
 
Sorghum was the main fermentable, I may have used brown rice syrup and some maltodextrin but Im not sure. If I can get my laptop to work today I'll edit this post and let you know.
 
lcasanova said:
Sorghum was the main fermentable, I may have used brown rice syrup and some maltodextrin but Im not sure. If I can get my laptop to work today I'll edit this post and let you know.
Click to expand...

That would be awesome, I'm planning on making a Wit first, and I don't want to wait for roasted buckwheat and whatnot...maybe after the first few batches.

If nothing else, I'll just go with 6 lbs sorghum, 1 lb rice syrup solids, an ounce or 2 of maltodextrin...I suppose a half pound of sugar or so wouldn't hurt either.

I keep checking the airlock on the non-GF Tripel, and it keeps bubbling (it had dropped from a bubble every 1-2 seconds to a bubble ever 5-6 by last night) and I don't think it is going to be ready to rack to secondary this weekend. Oh well, good things come to he who waits...
 
Alright, I finally got my laptop to work again so....

I used 7 lbs of sorghum syrup and 8 oz of maltodextrine for my wit. I also made a saison where I used 6 lbs of sorghum syrup 1 lb of rice syrup solids 1 lb 8 oz of clear candi sugar and 1 lb 4 oz of brown sugar. They both turned out similar in color but the wit is still hazy. I'll throw one in the fridge tonight and take a picture for you tomorrow.

Edit- I just threw both of them in the fridge, the wit is still cloudy as hell and the saison is crystal clear...I brewed the wit in November and the saison last month.
 

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