Anyone clone 3F's Robert the Bruce?

I found a couple of older threads, but it didn't look like anyone had cloned this yet. I found this recipe (below) on another forum that supposedly came from Nick Floyd back in 2004. I can't get this beer here, but a friend has brought some over a couple times and it is one of the best Scottish Ales I've had and I'm a big fan of that style so I'd love to clone this.

I don't know much about 3 Floyds that would help me figure out how to clone this, does anyone else have any input?

Description: Brewed with two row pale, roasted and Melanoidin Magnura malts, Robert the Bruce Scottish Ale is dark copper in color with a nose of chocolate syrup, coffee and sweet malt. The lads balance it nicely with Centennial hops. We found it to be medium-bodied with a big malty body that has a nice balance of hops. It finishes with a lingering bitterness and notes of coffee beans. This beer is a true wintertime delight that warms you with every sip. We recommend drinking this beer with any grilled meat or a chocolate dessert.

OG:17plato (1.070)
FG:5.5plato (1.022)
Ibus:30 All at begining of Boil (Centennial)
90 Minute Boil
MashIn 162 F Hour Rest
Yeast: Fullers

Colour 18 Srm

Malt 85% 2Row US
1%Black Patent UK
1%Roasted UK
5%Caramunich 40 German
3% Crystal 10 US
2% Melanoidin German
3%Crystal 55 UK
Ferment on the cold side 62-65 F

The recipe must have evolved as their brewery has because I have seen a lot of varying OG/FG numbers, but the numbers above look close to me as this does seem to be about a 6.5% beer (I've also read it's 6% and 7%) and this beer has a very full mouthfeel with lots of residual sweetness so a 1.022ish FG seems to be about right. The 3 Floyds website says this is 7%, but most other sites I checked reported it to be closer to 6.5%. I emailed 3F to see if they can confirm the correct ABV for me, didn't ask much else because I've read they're pretty tight lipped about their recipes and typically don't respond to emails.

The grist actually seems about right for this beer, although I come up with 20 SRM in Beersmith as opposed to 18 - guessing there was some rounding going on when the recipe was given.

The 30 IBU seems to be fairly consistent - I don't think it matters too much if you use Centennial or not as a 90 minute bittering addition, I'll either use Centennial or something else fairly clean.

My main concern with this recipe is the mash temp at 162F with an already lower attenuating yeast like 002/1968, I'm thinking 152-154F is probably where I'd target the sach rest at.

I'm planning to brew my first attempt at this in January which will probably be close to the above recipe depending on what else I can find out about this.

I too have been searching for a Robert clone and probably have pulled up the same old threads you have. I got the opportunity to have a few pints last week when I was in Chicago and would love to clone in here on the west coast.

The recipe does sound about right, but I question the mash temp too. To me, the body was pretty light for a Scottish ale and it didn't have the heavy carmely taste which I really enjoyed about Robert.

I'm planning on brewing next week. Mashing around 154 and using 1oz of Saaz as a FWH and 2oz of Fuggles at 90mins to add the spicy notes.

Are you using the grist % above or making adjustments? Ill probably brew what I posted above next week and Ill use centennial @90 since I have some already. For the caramunich 40 I think Ill use Caramunich I which is in the mid 30s.

Still would like to degas a sample to confirm FG but I dont know if Ill have time to track down a bottle by next week.

Yup, I'm going off of that grist % amounts. My LHBS is pretty good on stocking lots of malts, but I'm not sure about the 40 and the 55. Might have to go with the cara you mentioned and crystal 60.

weesm said:

Yup, I'm going off of that grist % amounts. My LHBS is pretty good on stocking lots of malts, but I'm not sure about the 40 and the 55. Might have to go with the cara you mentioned and crystal 60.

Click to expand...

Here's what I plan to pick up with the maltsters listed:
85% Rahr 2 Row
5% Weyermann Caramunich I
3% Simpson's Medium Crystal (50-60 = 55ish)
3% Briess Caramel 10
2% Weyermann Melanoiden Malt
1% Simpson's Roasted Barley
1% Simpsons English Black Malt
Centennial @ 90 mins to 30 IBU
WLP002 - 2 liter starter

A friend of mine has a bottle of Robert so I'm going to try to get it and degas a sample to confirm FG. Tentatively planning on mashing at 152-153 based on my results with WLP002 on other batches (and taking into account all the dextrins that will be present), that might change if I have time to degas a sample.

Got a bottle of Robert from a friend and degassed it, looks like the FG is about 1.016 so the information above is probably either inaccurate or just outdated. I'm hoping it's the latter as 3F has grown quite a bit since 2004 and it would stand to reason that the recipe would have changed somewhat as their brewhouse grew. I'll now be targeting an OG of 1.065 and FG of 1.016 which (for me at least) means I'll be mashing at about 149F.

I brewed the recipe that is supposed to be from the brewer about 6 months ago. With some modifications I had to make since the LHBS didn't have everything. Crystal 60, the Caramunich was Belgian, I used 3 lbs of Munich 10 and no melanoidin. Also used S-04, fermented low about 62. It came out nice, not exact. It was only my 2nd all grain as well, so it prob could have been better. Overall it was solid, probably 80% what the original is.

Here is my recipe/notes. Terrible efficiency, so my ABV was a bit low.

Grains
11 lbs American 2-row (68.4)
3 lbs Munich 10L (18.7)
12 oz Cara 45 (4.7%)
8 oz Crystal 10 (3.1%)
8 oz Crystal 60 (3.1%)
2.7 oz Roasted Barley (1%)
2.7 oz Black Patent (1%)

Hops
1.5 oz Centennial (8.1 AA) @ 60

Yeast
S-04

Procedure
Mash temp - 155-156°F
Strike Gallons - 5 gallons / 20 qts
Sparge Gallons - 4.25 gallons
Collect - 7.6 gallons
60 minute boil
Post Boil Cooled Volume - 5.9 gallons (too much!)

Readings
OG - 1.064
Efficiency - 61%
FG - 1.017
ABV - 6.2%

AnchorBock said:

Here's what I plan to pick up with the maltsters listed:
85% Rahr 2 Row
5% Weyermann Caramunich I
3% Simpson's Medium Crystal (50-60 = 55ish)
3% Briess Caramel 10
2% Weyermann Melanoiden Malt
1% Simpson's Roasted Barley
1% Simpsons English Black Malt
Centennial @ 90 mins to 30 IBU
WLP002 - 2 liter starter

A friend of mine has a bottle of Robert so I'm going to try to get it and degas a sample to confirm FG. Tentatively planning on mashing at 152-153 based on my results with WLP002 on other batches (and taking into account all the dextrins that will be present), that might change if I have time to degas a sample.

Click to expand...

Brewed this today, targeted 1.065 OG / 1.016 FG and ended up at 1.067 OG. Mashed at 149 so it should end up around 1.017 (hopefully). Pitched at about 60F planning to ferment around 62F - if it doesn't take off I'll go up a degree, but I think WLP002 will ferment at 62F.

I'll post an update in a couple of weeks.

Hope it turns out well for you. I think it will, since my batch was fairly similar with some moderate changes in the recipe.

Had my brew day on last Sat and the only change i made was I used crystal 60L instead of 55. I used the Saaz as a first wort hop and Fuggles all at 90 mins.

Brew day went smooth. I nailed my pre boil gravity and my post boil OG was 1.062, a few points off the recipe, but good enough. Pitched a starter of WLP 007 dry English ale at 62F and slowly let it rise to 66. It's 5 days since I pitched the yeast and the gravity is already 1.018 and the krasusen is starting to fall. I'm letting the temp free rise now to let the yeast clean up.

I tasted the gravity sample and the malt seems spot on. Roasty, biscuit, but not super sweet. It is really bitter right now so I'm hoping that will mellow with some age.

I have mine sitting at 65* now. Finished at 1.016 so slightly low but still in the right range. Sample tasted similar for sure, definitely on the sweetside and had a similar mouthfeel, not sure if it had the distinct malt present but its hard to tell warm and uncarbed. Anxious to keg it but Ill let it sit a few more days.

I might enter this in a competition or two, but can't decide what to enter it as. I think a case could be made for Scottish Export 80/- (9C) or Scotch Ale (9E). I think I'm going to have to decide based on whether or not the alcohol is real perceptible once the beer is ready, if there is some clear alcohol aroma/taste it would probably score better as a Scotch Ale I'd think. Anyone have any feedback on that approach?

Put your batch into the keg and carb it up yet, AnchorBock?

Robin0782 said:

Put your batch into the keg and carb it up yet, AnchorBock?

Click to expand...

Not yet, I'll get it kegged today or tomorrow. It's been cold crashing for nearly a week now - just haven't had the chance to keg it.

Got this kegged and fined today, took another reading and it was down to 1.014 (was 1.016 on 1/2). With an OG of 1.067 this actually ended up at about 7% ABV. When I took a sip of the sample that was around 35* it wasn't real flavorful, but at 50* it had a very similar flavor profile to Robert (very malty with some sweetness, definitely got some caramel and chocolate flavors). I'll get it carbed up this week and get some notes up later. Unless it tastes where I want it I'd adjust the mash temp up to probably 151 or so next time to get the FG up to 1.016.

Posted a writeup about this on my blog if anyone is looking for more info, but basically I dont have a fresh sample to compare to currently. The homebrew version was a fair bit darker and slightly less malty from what I remember, but it's pretty close and makes a great beer. When I get my hands on some fresh bottles I'll rebrew with some changes.


Homebrew left

AnchorBock said:

Posted a writeup about this on my blog if anyone is looking for more info, but basically I dont have a fresh sample to compare to currently. The homebrew version was a fair bit darker and slightly less malty from what I remember, but it's pretty close and makes a great beer. When I get my hands on some fresh bottles I'll rebrew with some changes.

Homebrew left

Click to expand...

Being doing some research and your write up is great. What temp did you ferment?

He said 65 degrees in Post #12 about (he wrote it as 65*). From everything I've read it should be fermented on the low end to prevent ester formation. I'm going to brew this next weekend. I've been out to Chicago and northern Indiana about six times this year and never can seem to find it, even at the brewery, so I decided to just make it instead. Ingredients for a 5-gallon batch cost less than two six packs in Chicago...