AG Saison critique

Hey, this is a saison recipe that I'm making. Any input you all can give me?

By the way, this will be my first all grain. I'm planning on doing it on the stovetop, so with me luck.

Mash
8Lb Belgian pilsner
1Lb Munich
1Lb wheal malt
.25Lb crystal 60L (for color)

Mash at 150 Fahrenheit for one hour 13.83Q water (1.35Q/lb)

Sparge in 3.8 gallons water at 170 fahrenheit for 10 minutes

Wort collected should be 6 gallons (assuming my calculations are correct.

.75 oz East Kent Goldings 60min
.75 oz Styrian Goldings 60min
.25 oz East Kent Goldings 10min
.25 oz Coriander 5 min
.25 oz orange peel 5 min
.50 oz grains of paradise 5 min
.25 oz Styrian Goldings 2 min

1lb honey after beer has cooled

Yeast: Wyeast 3724, Belgian siason

2 weeks primary

2 weeks secondary with 1 oz Styrian Goldings dry hoped

4 weeks in bottle

So, any suggestions.

Personally, I'd drop the spices. A saison gets it's flavors from the yeast, not seasonings.

I think you could back down on the crystal and probably back off on the Munich too. Also, you probably want some simple sugar in there to help dry the beer out, might consider mash lower too.

ChshreCat said:

Personally, I'd drop the spices. A saison gets it's flavors from the yeast, not seasonings.

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I was just reading the BJCP guidelines, and it says that spices are ok? Maybe I can just use one to add a little to the beer.

Beerrific said:

I think you could back down on the crystal and probably back off on the Munich too. Also, you probably want some simple sugar in there to help dry the beer out, might consider mash lower too.

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So, if I'm backing off on the crystal and munich, where should I get color from?

This is my first saison that I have tried. And it's not exactly a style I'm incredibly familiar with in commercial brews.

Whoa! Back off the grains of paradise. they are typically used at 1-5 grams. I go with 3 grams (0.1 oz) The cor iander could be bumped it is a subtle citrus flavor in the final product. .5 oz is a good starting point but .75 oz is still a subtle addition. A saison is a house beer, and as such it is really an open pallet. The pils and munich is a clasic base for this beer, but the crystal is a little out of place here. bump the munich for some more color.

I think the munich is good up to about 25%, but that is just me.

I mashed @ 145 for 45 minutes
and @ 155 for 45 minutes

I dried it out to 1.004. Don't be afraid of a little sugar in this one either.

It was a real good refreshing and strong beer.

You could get some color from a little Belgium Aromatic. It would also add some complexity. I forgot to mention. This really is a traditional homebrew style in Belgium. Think of all the strange things brewers do to there beers where you are from and then try to translate that into Belgium ingredients.

SnickASaurusRex said:

I think the munich is good up to about 25%, but that is just me.

I mashed @ 145 for 45 minutes
and @ 155 for 45 minutes

I dried it out to 1.004. Don't be afraid of a little sugar in this one either.

It was a real good refreshing and strong beer.

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Approx. what recipe is that? Any sugar? What yeast? Thanks.

Oh I used Mosher's Saison from radical brewing and then adjusted it to what I liked.

8# -- Belgian Pilsener
3# -- American Munich (light)
.75 - Torified wheat
1.5 - Demerera Sugar

1 oz -- 60 min -- Northern Brewer
2 oz -- 30 min -- Saaz
2 oz -- 5 min --- Argintine Cascade

18g -- Coriander Seed
2g --- Paradise Seeds
14g -- Orange Peel, Bitter
14g -- Orange Peel, Sweet
----All at 5 min----

I use T-58, but a more appropriate liquid yeast would be great. I'm just lazy. I carbed to 3.1 volumes.

Let's see here:

OG 1.064
FG 1.004
ABV 7.7

Mash 145 @ 45 min
Then 152 @ 45 min

I think the dry hop will be very good, but also strange in this style, but like I said it is a house style, so to each.

Sounds like a pretty good beer!

I agree with the following suggested modifications:

1. Mash low and slow or add sugar to the grist. Your original grist has a lot of body-enhancing ingredients (Munich and Crystal), which will act against the beer finishing dry. A dry finish is, IMO, crucial to the style.

2. Choose spices carefully. If you can pick out any one spice flavor in the finished beer, according to Heironymous et al., UR DOIN IT RONG.

3. Choose spices or late hops. If you use both, the impact of either will be blunted, to the detriment of the beer. That's my experience talking, mind; YMMV. Me, I'd go with hops and lose the spices.

4. You can use a dedicated Saison yeast, like WLP565, WLP568 or WY3724, but other yeasts will do a decent job. I once used Wyeast Belgian Ardennes to good effect.

Cheers,

Bob

Thanks to all of your suggestions.

I decided to drop the spices for now. I figured I could brew this and than experiment with spices in later brews to come up with a better idea of what each will bring to the beer.

So, taking a few suggestions from you, this is what I have.

7Lb Belgian Pilsner
1Lb Wheat
.5Lb Munich
.5Lb Belgian Aromatic

Mash at 148 for one hour (maybe more?)

Hops are going to be the same as the original at this point

3Lb honey after I have cooled the beer.

Same yeast.

Yumm That sounds tasty.

Yes it does.

I've done many a saison in my day (most good, one horribly bad) - it's a great style and really - you can do ANYTHING and plop some saison yeast and it will be saison.

Case study for the above:

We were group brewing and had a royal crapton of leftover junk. Flaked Wheat, Flaked Oats, Pils, Munich, Regular Wheat, etc. We ran all the leftover grain we had into a mash tun, put some water in and calculated some basic hops with what we had on hand. Dropped some spices/orange peel/whatever we had on hand.

We all thought it would be horrible in the end, but hey - it coud have been wonderful, right?

I let that thing sit in the back closet in tertiary for 8-9 months. I wanted to bottle it but was scared it was going to taste just horrible, so it just sat in the closet as this bastardized stepchild that wasn't allowed out in public.

I decided to keg it right before the 1 year anniversary so I could take it to the group brew - and low and behold it is one of the TASTIEST beers I've ever had. I have no recipe (we did actually type it into beersmith, but it was on an old laptop belonging to my former employer and I forgot to take the recipe with me), and the ingredient list is just so random. I'll never be able to make this beer again.

So, moral of the story -- ANYTHING can end up a Saison, because just about anything is "in style", and even if it isn't directly to style - it's a nice farmhouse ale.