Brew on Premises Laws??

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Phunhog

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I know it is a shot in the dark but does anybody know about Brew On Premise laws? According to this it appears it isn't regulated at the federal level. http://www.ttb.gov/beer/faqs.shtml#b1 I live in CA and there are handful scattered throughout the state so they must be legal. I can't find any information though regarding any sort of regulations and/or licensing specific to CA. I am waiting to hear back from ABC..just wondering if anyone else knew. Thanks.
 
I don't know of any federal law at all covering BOP.

There have been a few I've seen in Michigan and Ohio. Actually, the one I saw in Michigan was a make-your-own-wine place with a tasting room and also sales of wine, but no beer that I know of.

I have to assume that it's a state-by-state thing. But of course, that is just my assumption and I don't know that for a fact.
 
The ABC for your state dictates this and it varies on a state by state basis. The most credible source of info you may find is contacting your ABC.
 
Wikipedia says it's not regulated (thank God) by the Feds; it's left to the States: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homebrewing. Seems Alabama and Mississippi are the only ones that outlaw homebrewing

Of course, there's no way any State can figure how much you're brewing, so the 100 gallon limit is meaningless


Individual states remain free to restrict or prohibit the manufacture of beer, mead, hard cider, wine and other fermented alcoholic beverages at home.[18] For example, Ala. Code § 28-1-1 addresses the illegal manufacture of alcoholic beverages in Alabama, and no other provision of Alabama law provides an exception for personal use brewing.
However, most states permit homebrewing, allowing 100 gallons of beer per adult per year and up to a maximum of 200 gallons per household annually when there are two or more adults residing in the household.[19] Because alcohol is taxed by the federal government via excise taxes, homebrewers are restricted from selling any beer they brew. This similarly applies in most Western countries. In 1979, President Jimmy Carter signed into law a bill allowing home beers, which was at the time not permitted without paying the excise taxes as a holdover from the prohibition of alcoholic beverages (repealed in 1933).[18] This change also exempted home brewers from posting a "penal bond" (which is currently $1000.00) which had the prohibitive effect of economically preventing brewers of small quantities from pursuing their hobby.[citation needed]

Home distilleries on the other hand, are illegal

Regulated at the National level under USC Title 26 subtitle E Ch51. Production of distilled alcohols for consumption carries an excise tax and numerous requirements must be met to legally produce.[20]
Owning or operating a distillation apparatus without filing the proper paperwork and paying the taxes carries federal criminal penalties.[21]
 
In California brew on premises are classified as remote home brewing outlets. This means the homebrewer must be present during the brewing process. Once the yeast is pitched, they can go home and come back when it's bottling time.
 
WHAT!!!

I have watching my fermentation the whole way through....

DAMN!!! :)


In California brew on premises are classified as remote home brewing outlets. This means the homebrewer must be present during the brewing process. Once the yeast is pitched, they can go home and come back when it's bottling time.
 
The local BOP got me into the fricking mess of a hobby! Here in NJ the brew is considered homebrew, and therefore limited to thte 200gals/year. BOP is expensive though compared to homebrewing. A 15 gal extract batch runs about $200, not including bottles. You do get to sample their beers on tap though while you are there for brew day. I've found some excellent kits there that way.
 
In California brew on premises are classified as remote home brewing outlets. This means the homebrewer must be present during the brewing process. Once the yeast is pitched, they can go home and come back when it's bottling time.

Thanks for all the responses!! I have contacted the ABC and a brew on premise store (BrewBakers) and am awaiting a response. Here is my situation....I am often asked to brew beer for other's special events( parties, charity functions, etc). I love doing it but it does take quite a bit of my time and money. Obviously I know that I can't sell it so let's not even go there!! It would seem that as long as there aren't any special licenses/permits involved I could have a brew on premise operation. This would allow me to charge for the use of my equipment, supplies, time, etc....and still stay within the law. They would have to help in the brew process( pitch yeast) to also stay legal.
 
Just don't try doing it here in my backasswards state. I still have to tip-toe around my hobby in certain company. Thankfully, my neighbor makes wine, so we watch each other's backs.
 
Thanks for all the responses!! I have contacted the ABC and a brew on premise store (BrewBakers) and am awaiting a response. Here is my situation....I am often asked to brew beer for other's special events( parties, charity functions, etc). I love doing it but it does take quite a bit of my time and money. Obviously I know that I can't sell it so let's not even go there!! It would seem that as long as there aren't any special licenses/permits involved I could have a brew on premise operation. This would allow me to charge for the use of my equipment, supplies, time, etc....and still stay within the law. They would have to help in the brew process( pitch yeast) to also stay legal.

This sounds a bit suspect, almost like you're running a business renting out your equipment - might wanna think twice about this one; if might be classified as a hobby if you only make a little money off of it, like selling cabinets on the weekends, or it may be a business due to the profits; would have to talk to a lawyer about the difference.

That, and you might piss people off for charging them to use your equipment and then their beer doesn't come out right because they screwed something up.

A better idea might be to ask to be reimbursed the cost of materials (not time though) - nothing really wrong with that if you don't make any profit
 
xmacro said:
This sounds a bit suspect, almost like you're running a business renting out your equipment - might wanna think twice about this one; if might be classified as a hobby if you only make a little money off of it, like selling cabinets on the weekends, or it may be a business due to the profits; would have to talk to a lawyer about the difference.

That, and you might piss people off for charging them to use your equipment and then their beer doesn't come out right because they screwed something up.

A better idea might be to ask to be reimbursed the cost of materials (not time though) - nothing really wrong with that if you don't make any profit

You just explained precisely the business concept of a brew on premises. You rent their equipment and buy the materials. It's a viable (and growing) business concept.
 
This sounds a bit suspect, almost like you're running a business renting out your equipment - might wanna think twice about this one; if might be classified as a hobby if you only make a little money off of it, like selling cabinets on the weekends, or it may be a business due to the profits; would have to talk to a lawyer about the difference.

That, and you might piss people off for charging them to use your equipment and then their beer doesn't come out right because they screwed something up.

A better idea might be to ask to be reimbursed the cost of materials (not time though) - nothing really wrong with that if you don't make any profit

Well it would in fact technically be a business. The Brew On Premise operations are essentially renting out their equipment to others who don't have the necessary equipment. I am curious as to what needs to happen legally, if anything, to have a Brew on Premise operation. As far as the possibility of brewing up bad beer....all they have to do is pitch the yeast. If the beer comes out bad..it would be my fault.
 
Just don't try doing it here in my backasswards state. I still have to tip-toe around my hobby in certain company. Thankfully, my neighbor makes wine, so we watch each other's backs.

there are plenty of people brewing in your backasswards state. don't ask me how I know.
 
Well it would in fact technically be a business. The Brew On Premise operations are essentially renting out their equipment to others who don't have the necessary equipment. I am curious as to what needs to happen legally, if anything, to have a Brew on Premise operation. As far as the possibility of brewing up bad beer....all they have to do is pitch the yeast. If the beer comes out bad..it would be my fault.

Taxes, regulations, business licenses . . . you can just ask your local Chamber of Commerce what's needed; they should let you know what's needed to start a business.
 
I heard back from the CA ABC. There are no special regulations/licenses needed to operate a BOP in CA. They consider it a type of homebrewing and all homebrewing laws would apply. So it would appear that it would be perfectly legal for a homebrewer to charge a fee for equipment, supplies, labor, etc...in the production of beer. Provided of course that the customer helps "brew" the beer. Of course there is nothing in the text of the law that constitutes exactly what "brewing" entails.....
 
One additional problem might be in getting the local business license. You might need a location zoned for business, not a residence.
 
One additional problem might be in getting the local business license. You might need a location zoned for business, not a residence.

That's true. I am starting to think about this as more of an "informal" deal...not so much as a business. Just glad to know I wouldn't be breaking any laws.
 
That's true. I am starting to think about this as more of an "informal" deal...not so much as a business. Just glad to know I wouldn't be breaking any laws.

see, this is where its gets dicey. A licensed BOP retail establishment and an "informal" garage deal are 2 different things.
 
That's true. I am starting to think about this as more of an "informal" deal...not so much as a business. Just glad to know I wouldn't be breaking any laws.

The locals can still bust you for operating a business in a residence without a business license or proper zoning. The chances of that happening depend primarily on whether or not your neighbors start complaining about it.
 
The locals can still bust you for operating a business in a residence without a business license or proper zoning. The chances of that happening depend primarily on whether or not your neighbors start complaining about it.

True...but my neighbors are all well aware of my brewing habits. In fact most of them come to our beer tasting parties. I am really just looking to cover myself. As I said people approach me all the time to brew for them. This gives me a way to make it worth while for myself while still following the ABC and TTB regulations regarding homebrewing.
 
Yeah, I wouldn't expect you'll run into problems with it, just thought I'd throw that out there. Code enforcement can be a lot more proactive when neighbors start complaining.
 
BOP is expensive though compared to homebrewing. A 15 gal extract batch runs about $200, not including bottles.

$200 for 15 gallons comes to $67 for 5 gallons. If you consider the cost of equipment, it's not terribly expensive. I brew partial mash and most of my beers are $25-40 for 5 gallons. I know some brewers can go as low as $10/batch, but they aren't including the cost of equipment. The equipment not only includes one-time purchases that can distributed over the cost of subsequent batches, but also wear and tear items such as tubing, gaskets, batteries, hydrometers, finings, cleaners, and sanitizers.

If the brew on premises facilities include cleaning labor, that certainly makes considering it worthwhile.
 
$200 for 15 gallons comes to $67 for 5 gallons. If you consider the cost of equipment, it's not terribly expensive. I brew partial mash and most of my beers are $25-40 for 5 gallons. I know some brewers can go as low as $10/batch, but they aren't including the cost of equipment. The equipment not only includes one-time purchases that can distributed over the cost of subsequent batches, but also wear and tear items such as tubing, gaskets, batteries, hydrometers, finings, cleaners, and sanitizers.

If the brew on premises facilities include cleaning labor, that certainly makes considering it worthwhile.

Indeed....it's $200 and up of course, and it includes materials, fermentation, filtering, carbonation, and bottling equipment. You provide / buy bottles (which they are very fair at, $8 /case for new bombers). They also clean the kettles and fermenters. The kettles they use are really pro, copper steam heated kettles, real pretty stuff. They ferment into 15gal plastic casks, and keg it and chill it for bottling. They buy bulk extracts in barrels so they save there I'm sure. Www.brewapp.com is their site. I learned quite a bit there, and the beer is excellent.
 
$200 for 15 gallons comes to $67 for 5 gallons. If you consider the cost of equipment, it's not terribly expensive. I brew partial mash and most of my beers are $25-40 for 5 gallons. I know some brewers can go as low as $10/batch, but they aren't including the cost of equipment. The equipment not only includes one-time purchases that can distributed over the cost of subsequent batches, but also wear and tear items such as tubing, gaskets, batteries, hydrometers, finings, cleaners, and sanitizers.

If the brew on premises facilities include cleaning labor, that certainly makes considering it worthwhile.

Thanks for the pricing! My plan was to offer 10 gallons of all grain homebrew, kegged, with a jockey box for around 100 bucks...maybe a little bit more. It all depends on how much "sweat equity" they are willing to put into it. Obviously with a BOP the customer has to do some of the brewing work.
 
I could be wrong here, but all of the BOP places I know of require the customer to do ALL of the brewing work, maybe with the exception of cleaning/sanitation. I think once the BOP starts working with ANY of the brewing process, they legally are considered a brewery and have to follow all laws as such including licensing regulations, distribution and sales laws, as well as any beer/alcohol taxes.
 
I could be wrong here, but all of the BOP places I know of require the customer to do ALL of the brewing work, maybe with the exception of cleaning/sanitation. I think once the BOP starts working with ANY of the brewing process, they legally are considered a brewery and have to follow all laws as such including licensing regulations, distribution and sales laws, as well as any beer/alcohol taxes.

I think it might have to do with your state's laws. In CA they are not regulated at all...or I should say that the same laws that apply to homebrewing would apply to a BOP. I have found that some states DO have strict regulations like you mentioned. Here is a FAQ from the TTB again....http://www.ttb.gov/beer/faqs.shtml#b1 It does mention what a BOP can and cannot do. However if you read it closely you will see that those are guidelines and not the actual law/regulation. Nowhere in the actual regulations are BOP's even mentioned. It just falls under homebrewing, which of course is regulated.
 
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