Specialty Grain Steeping Question

Hi guys, I'm new to the forum (and to brewing) so apologies if this question has been asked already. I had a quick peak around and couldn't find the answer.

I've been reading Palmer and noticed something I thought was strange. He gives this table (4 columns are max yield, max ppg, typical ppg, and ppg steep).

Brown Malt 70 32 28 8*
Dextrin Malt 70 32 28 4*
Light Crystal (10 - 15L) 75 35 30 14*
Pale Crystal (25 - 40L) 74 34 29 22
Medium Crystal (60 - 75L) 74 34 29 18
Dark Crystal (120L) 72 33 28 16
Special B 68 31 27 16
Chocolate Malt 60 28 24 15
Roast Barley 55 25 22 21
Black Patent Malt 55 25 22 21

Clearly the gravity contributions are less when steeping than mashing (except for roast barley and black patent). However, in Palmer's sample recipes toward the end of the book, where he gives both extract/steep and all grain options, he generally just replaces the extract with 2-row but keeps the amount of the specialty grains the same. If you get a better extraction from the specialty grains when mashing instead of steeping, why wouldn't the extract/steep recipe call for more specialty grains compared to the all grain recipe for the same beer? Am I missing something? Is there a problem with steeping to much specialty grain?

Heavyfoot said:

Clearly the gravity contributions are less when steeping than mashing (except for roast barley and black patent). However, in Palmer's sample recipes toward the end of the book, where he gives both extract/steep and all grain options, he generally just replaces the extract with 2-row but keeps the amount of the specialty grains the same. If you get a better extraction from the specialty grains when mashing instead of steeping, why wouldn't the extract/steep recipe call for more specialty grains compared to the all grain recipe for the same beer? Am I missing something? Is there a problem with steeping to much specialty grain?

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Well, the grain gives color and flavor even if you're steeping, so when you're mashing, you can use the same amount of specialty grain to get the same amount of color and flavor. The basemalt (or extract) is where the bulk of the fermentables come from, so it's common to just replace the basemalt when converted to extract and vice versa. Does that make sense?

Steeping too much specialty grain isn't really a problem, depending on what you're making. For a sweet American amber, for example, you can have 20% crystal malt. But it would be terrible in a cream ale! Some specialty grains are very strong flavored, or very sweet, so a little goes a long way. This is often a case of "less is more".

I'm not sure why he does that but for recipe conversion, such as in How to Brew or Brewing Classic Styles, the extract is replaced by base malt and the "specialty/steeping" grain stays the same. THis is common practice. I think that part of the reason for this is that extract usually has at least some specialty grain already in it so it sort of balances out. But you are right, process has a huge effect on recipes. If you and I both brew the same exact recipe with the same extract, yeast, hops, and water on different equipment with different processes, the beers will be very different. If we did the same experiment and I used base malt instead of extract, they would be even more different. This is why recipes are a good place to start but often need to be adjusted for optimal flavor from your particular process / system. However, as a general rule when brewing with extract, an equal or smaller amount specialty grain should be used because of the presence of these grains in the extract.

JonK331 said:

However, as a general rule when brewing with extract, an equal or smaller amount specialty grain should be used because of the presence of these grains in the extract.

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That makes sense. I'm actually not sure of the composition of the Pale LME I'm using. I'll have to check into that.

I have seen that you can buy DME that it purely made from 2-row, and I was thinking about ordering a bunch. If using this, would you say you'd want to increase the amounts of specialty grains a bit to match the ppg you'd get if you mashed in order to best imitate the all-grain recipe?

ie. for chocolate malt, multiply by 24/15?

Heavyfoot said:

That makes sense. I'm actually not sure of the composition of the Pale LME I'm using. I'll have to check into that.

I have seen that you can buy DME that it purely made from 2-row, and I was thinking about ordering a bunch. If using this, would you say you'd want to increase the amounts of specialty grains a bit to match the ppg you'd get if you mashed in order to best imitate the all-grain recipe?

ie. for chocolate malt, multiply by 24/15?

Click to expand...

If you can get pure 2-row DME, by all means get it so long as it is fresh. It is always best to use the lightest dme/lme possible for any style. I couldn't get pure 2-row lme/dme when I was using extract but I would have been all over it if I could've.

You could try a slight increase but you probably won't be able to tell all that much difference. IMO most recipes have too much specialty grain anyway, especially when it comes to crystal malt. However, if this is something of great concern to you, look into partial mashing. You can do it in a pot in the oven set to 150F with a super sized grain bag. You don't even really have to sparge, just pull the bag out, let it drain, and then dip the entire grain bag in and out of your boil kettle with 150F water to wash out the sugars, then let it drain again and discard the grain. Finally, add the initally drained wort from your mini mash to the kettle. This method is easy and will wash the sugars out fairly well, not the same as a batch or fly sparge but certainly better than steeping.