yeast farming

I was reading about yeast farming and it seems like a good way to save some coin, from the sounds of it you just make a starter, drain the wort and dispense the yeast into several containers for future use.

Does anyone know if bottles would work for storage? Once the wort is drained and the yeast goes in the fridge they will be dormant right?

Todd said:

I was reading about yeast farming and it seems like a good way to save some coin, from the sounds of it you just make a starter, drain the wort and dispense the yeast into several containers for future use.

Does anyone know if bottles would work for storage? Once the wort is drained and the yeast goes in the fridge they will be dormant right?

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Just make sure that you wash the yeast well (removing any wort so that fermentation is not taking place), and relieve any pressure from the bottles a few times near the beginning of storage.

Otherwise it'll build up pressure and you could get bottle bombs or a yeast eruption when you open them. (I had this happen once--thank God I was in the basement.)

It' probably more convenient to use a mason jar or jelly jar or something where it's easier to relieve the pressure and re-seal.

mason jars with a #13 stopper and airlock work well...

At this point bottles would be easier, how full should I make them? 2/3s??

Todd said:

At this point bottles would be easier, how full should I make them? 2/3s??

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At the very most, I'd say. If you get the yeast washed (trub and excess water/wort removed), 1/2 a beer bottle of slurry is a lot of yeast. (Compare to the amount that comes in a White Labs vial.)

How exactly do you wash yeast? Soap and water?

ryser2k said:

How exactly do you wash yeast? Soap and water?

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Not sure if you're really asking in earnest, but...

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hbrew/hbyewash.htm

Clear containers might not be a bad idea, but then again I'm not sure about light damage to yeast.
I've heard once the yeast turns the color of peanutbutter it supposed to be tossed

I think I might give it a try this weekend. Liquid yeast runs me $6.50 locally so if I could turn that into several brew days would be nice.

Just make sure that you wash the yeast well (removing any wort so that fermentation is not taking place), and relieve any pressure from the bottles a few times near the beginning of storage.

Otherwise it'll build up pressure and you could get bottle bombs or a yeast eruption when you open them. (I had this happen once--thank God I was in the basement.)

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well call me a rebel but i've been collecting yeast and capping it in 20oz. corona bottles with absolutely no problems. your milage may vary

I picked up a small bung from the HBS last time I was there so I can install an airlock (just in case I don't get the yeast as clean as it should be the first time). I'd be nervous about capping the bottles.

The other thing that should be noted is that isn't there a pretty finite number of times that you should wash and re-use your yeast? Don't most people say to do this maybe three times before starting over with fresh yeast? What happens, is it that dead yeast cells accumulate?

I make a gallon starter, ferment it out (6 days or so), decant the liquid, swirl the slurry, then seperate it into old white labs vials and throw 'em in the fridge, relieving the pressure every now and again. Then, I make a starter with a vial when i want to brew a batch.

the_bird said:

I picked up a small bung from the HBS last time I was there so I can install an airlock (just in case I don't get the yeast as clean as it should be the first time). I'd be nervous about capping the bottles.

The other thing that should be noted is that isn't there a pretty finite number of times that you should wash and re-use your yeast? Don't most people say to do this maybe three times before starting over with fresh yeast? What happens, is it that dead yeast cells accumulate?

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I think there is a chance of mutation or contamination.

I would be taking one vial and making many batches, then using each of those maybe 2-3 times before going back, My last 5 gallon batch made 2 mason jars full of yeast slurry, so you get quite a bit. We put one full jar in a stout and it was bubbling in 1 hour..

Todd said:

I think there is a chance of mutation or contamination.

I would be taking one vial and making many batches, then using each of those maybe 2-3 times before going back, My last 5 gallon batch made 2 mason jars full of yeast slurry, so you get quite a bit. We put one full jar in a stout and it was bubbling in 1 hour..

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Right: I think 2-3 uses (which seems pretty typical here) is actually very conservative. Breweries use harvested yeast over and over and over, after all. But they probably are somewhat more assured of their sanitary conditions, etc.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the three use thing was pitching on the yeast cake or if collecting from the secondary.
If you are washing the yeast, you are getting rid of the dead cells.

Isn't it desirable to getthe yeast to mutate slightly if you are using it for the same style/recipe? You end up with a yeast specalized in fermenting that specific wort.

brewhead said:

well call me a rebel but i've been collecting yeast and capping it in 20oz. corona bottles with absolutely no problems. your milage may vary

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In this pic all the white is yeast correct? I'm somewhat curious about the actual washing technique, I read about it but I'm not sure I fully understand. do you pour out the wort you see (brown) then add water and stir, does the trub settle fast and you pour the now clear water and keep that and pitch the trub? Does anyone have photos of the process?

The corona bottle in the pic would be what it would look like at the beginning of step six in these instructions:

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hbrew/hbyewash.htm

They are then advocating that you poor or siphon off the beer/wort/whatever and save just the yeast slurry.

My experience has been that if you don't, you get some continuing fermentation and pressure buildup, although brewhead has apparently not had that problem.

I'm too tired (lazy) to re-write the process up again...just do a search on washing and somewhere in there you'll read what I do.

cweston said:

The corona bottle in the pic would be what it would look like at the beginning of step six in these instructions:

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hbrew/hbyewash.htm

They are then advocating that you poor or siphon off the beer/wort/whatever and save just the yeast slurry.

My experience has been that if you don't, you get some continuing fermentation and pressure buildup, although brewhead has apparently not had that problem.

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Where my confusion lies is what exactly is the yeast in that picture? The directions say pour off wort, Ok I get that. Next it says pour off yeast above the trub, what exactly does that mean? Is there only a super fine layer of yeast in there or is all that sediment yeast? I've also read you use the yeast in suspension, not sure how to see this?

I'm not trying to be difficult here I really want to understand. I was planning to keep all the sediment show at the bottom of the bottle, is that correct?

Todd said:

Where my confusion lies is what exactly is the yeast in that picture? The directions say pour off wort, Ok I get that. Next it says pour off yeast above the trub, what exactly does that mean? Is there only a super fine layer of yeast in there or is all that sediment yeast?

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The bottom layer, the largest layer, in that photo is all yeast slurry. The trub has already been removed. (That's why I said it was at step six of the instructions I linked.) Depending on your brewing techniques and the recipe involved, sometimes there is very little trub in there to begin with.

cweston said:

The bottom layer, the largest layer, in that photo is all yeast slurry. The trub has already been removed. (That's why I said it was at step six of the instructions I linked.) Depending on your brewing techniques and the recipe involved, sometimes there is very little trub in there to begin with.

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Ok, I think that is why I was confused. I'm new to this, we kept the yeast from my last beer and it basically all looked like the yeast slurry here. I didn't really have much of any other sediment.

When we rack the pumpkin oatmeal stout this weekend I'll see that that looks like. Thanks

Todd said:

Where my confusion lies is what exactly is the yeast in that picture? The directions say pour off wort, Ok I get that. Next it says pour off yeast above the trub, what exactly does that mean? Is there only a super fine layer of yeast in there or is all that sediment yeast? I've also read you use the yeast in suspension, not sure how to see this?

I'm not trying to be difficult here I really want to understand. I was planning to keep all the sediment show at the bottom of the bottle, is that correct?

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OK, so what you're saying is that what's in the bottle is straight from your primary?

If so, ... here I go... well, I use 1 gallon jugs, CLEAR GLASS growlers actually, boil up a 1 gal of water (5 mins) and let cool. Sanitize 2 growlers. Pour 1/2 gal of cooled water into and then the yeast slurry/trub/sediment whatever you want to call it. Swirl to mix well. After about 10 mins the more solid residue (hops, grains, basically kreusen materiels) will drop out.

The stuff that's suspended in the water and making it cloudy is beer, water and yeast.

Pour thiis cloudy water into the second jug. Throw out the sediment from the first jug.

After a 1/2 hour or so you'll repeat the process.

The more solids you get rid off the cleaner your yeast will be.

You can add the second 1/2 gal into the jug now. This dilutes the beer and sugars even more.

As the yeast starte to fall out you'll notice a whitish line on the bottom of the jug. This is yeast. Let it fall out for a few hours/overnight.

In the morning you can pour off most of the water. Give the remaining water and yeast a swirl or two to mix again. What remains can be placed into smaller containers such as your old vials.

Since there are no fermentables remaining you will not have to vent the containers. I use baby food jars.

Homebrewer99,

Thanks, I think I had 2 problems with what I did, first I didn't put enough water in. I might have only added 1 cup. Second I had Windsor dry yeast and it has a very low flocculation rate. It stayed very loose the whole time, in fact it took almost a day for about an inch of wort to appear on top.

I'll give it a try here again and see what happens. I'll be using a belgian liquid over the weekend so that should turn out better.

Thanks

My thanks, too, Bill. Gonna try washing my yeast for the first time this afternoon, I've got to rack Walker's IPA to the secondary. I did purchase a couple packs of dry yeast at the HBS in case I screw it up, though!

cweston said:

Not sure if you're really asking in earnest, but...

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hbrew/hbyewash.htm

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No, I really didn't know. Thanks for posting, I'll try this next time!

Todd said:

Homebrewer99,

Thanks, I think I had 2 problems with what I did, first I didn't put enough water in. I might have only added 1 cup. Second I had Windsor dry yeast and it has a very low flocculation rate. It stayed very loose the whole time, in fact it took almost a day for about an inch of wort to appear on top.

I'll give it a try here again and see what happens. I'll be using a belgian liquid over the weekend so that should turn out better.

Thanks

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Todd/The Bird: You guys are welcome. IMO for the price of dry yeast I would just buy 5-6 packets and use them fresh.

homebrewer_99 said:

Todd/The Bird: You guys are welcome. IMO for the price of dry yeast I would just buy 5-6 packets and use them fresh.

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I was under the impression that you get can get a better beer with the liquid yeast? I used 2 packs of dry in my scotch ale and used about half of that yeast in the stout, things took off really well.

For the belgian ale I'm doing I want that specific yeast and I'll probably get an english or irish ale yeast next. If I can buy 1 vial and turn that into 3 batches, then I'll reused several times so I could get 9-10 batches from 1 vial. Works for me.. haha.

Plus I'm kinda into the mad science thing. I was freakin dreaming about this all night last night, just couldn't shut my brain off.

I want to wash my yeast just so that I know how to do it, even though I could just make a starter with my dry. I will also be doing a starter for the first time next batch.

the_bird said:

I want to wash my yeast just so that I know how to do it, even though I could just make a starter with my dry. I will also be doing a starter for the first time next batch.

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You are right...it would be best to "practice" on a dry yeast. Good idea.

Todd: Yes, you can get a better tasting beer from liquid yeasts because they are of a particular strain for a particular style.

Yes, you can further re-divide your yeast from subsequent primaries for $$$ savings. Just remember to sanitize everything.

Good luck.

The instructions say you should use your washed yeast for one month, ok. How long could you get away with leaving it in the fridge and still get the same results as if you used it within said month? 2 months, 3 or is the one month really all the longer the yeast would last without tossing in a tsp of sugar, dme, etc...? And would, lets say, tossing in a bit of DME/sugar/honey/Wheat malt, whatever a good idea(of course you'd bring it out of the fridge to ferment those sugars)?

Grimsawyer said:

The instructions say you should use your washed yeast for one month, ok. How long could you get away with leaving it in the fridge and still get the same results as if you used it within said month? 2 months, 3 or is the one month really all the longer the yeast would last without tossing in a tsp of sugar, dme, etc...? And would, lets say, tossing in a bit of DME/sugar/honey/Wheat malt, whatever a good idea(of course you'd bring it out of the fridge to ferment those sugars)?

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In how to brew I'm pretty sure he said yeast in the fridge will last six months. Can anyone confirm that?

Grimsawyer said:

The instructions say you should use your washed yeast for one month, ok. How long could you get away with leaving it in the fridge and still get the same results as if you used it within said month? 2 months, 3 or is the one month really all the longer the yeast would last without tossing in a tsp of sugar, dme, etc...? And would, lets say, tossing in a bit of DME/sugar/honey/Wheat malt, whatever a good idea(of course you'd bring it out of the fridge to ferment those sugars)?

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Do you feed the yeast in your vials? No? That's what I thought. So there's no reason to feed your washed yeast. You use it to make a starter next time...

Everyone keeps saying they get their yeast in vials.... I want a few! All I get when I do liquid yeast is the smack packs. Not sure if my LHBS has any vials... I havn't seen any, of course, I havn't looked for them either. Six months on washed yeast, eh? I think I'll play with that then. If it were one month not sure if I would bother. I don't seem to stick to any one yeast long enough. I havn't figured out what my favorites are yet, hehehe
Starters... can you use corn sugar instead of dme? (corn sugar is $4 for 5 lbs where DME is $5 a pound) How much water do you use? How much fermentable sugars do you use? When you use a smack pack is that more or less like dumping yeast into a starter or does a starter generate a buttload more sugar hungry yeast?

Grimsawyer said:

Everyone keeps saying they get their yeast in vials.... I want a few! All I get when I do liquid yeast is the smack packs. Not sure if my LHBS has any vials... I havn't seen any, of course, I havn't looked for them either. Six months on washed yeast, eh? I think I'll play with that then. If it were one month not sure if I would bother. I don't seem to stick to any one yeast long enough. I havn't figured out what my favorites are yet, hehehe
Starters... can you use corn sugar instead of dme? (corn sugar is $4 for 5 lbs where DME is $5 a pound) How much water do you use? How much fermentable sugars do you use? When you use a smack pack is that more or less like dumping yeast into a starter or does a starter generate a buttload more sugar hungry yeast?

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I think a smack pack is a mini starter.

My HBS only has vials, I actually wish they had the smack packs.

This is probably a stupid question but what are the vials full of? Just yeast and water?

Todd said:

I think a smack pack is a mini starter.

My HBS only has vials, I actually wish they had the smack packs.

This is probably a stupid question but what are the vials full of? Just yeast and water?

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Right--the smackpacks contain a mini-starter which mixes with the yeast slurry when you smack it. It's not a large enough starter to cause the yeast to multiply: it just "rouses" the yeast. The main function of this is to assure the brewer that the yeast is good before pitching, IMHO.

If you are making a starter, you don't even need to smack the smack pack, although I usually do--again, just to be sure the yeast is viable.

The vials are full of yeast slurry, just like what you save after yeast washing. Just like with the yeast you save yourself, I have occaisionally had a problem with the vials foaming over when you open them.

So I tried this yeast washing method for the first time on Saturday... I have a quart jar full of what looks like viable yeast, but how can I know for sure? Boil up a little DME and make a mini-starter just to test it?

ryser2k said:

So I tried this yeast washing method for the first time on Saturday... I have a quart jar full of what looks like viable yeast, but how can I know for sure? Boil up a little DME and make a mini-starter just to test it?

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I guess you could do that, but I wouldn't.

You could pitch a bunch of slurry straight away (bring it to pitching temp first.) You'd still probably be pitching more cells than when you make a starter and use a smack-pack or vial of White Labs slurry.

But since you're concerned about the viability of your harvested yeast, when you're ready to use it, make a small starter a couple days ahead of time and pitch it into the starter. In this case the starter isn't really to mulitply cells so much as to revive the yeast and reassure you that it is ready to go.

If my starter still has a fairly thick foam on top does that mean it is not finished?

Todd said:

If my starter still has a fairly thick foam on top does that mean it is not finished?

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Yes.

You can pitch at this stage--in fact, some folks say that is the best stage to pitch a starter.

The disadvantage of pitching at high krauesen is that the yeast is still in suspension, so you'll have to pitch the whole thing. (Rather than waiting for the yeast to drop off, when you can pour off the fermented wort and just pitch the yeast.)

If your starter is small, it's not a big deal. With a really big starter, you wouldn't want to dilute your beer with all of that starter beer.

cweston said:

Yes.

You can pitch at this stage--in fact, some folks say that is the best stage to pitch a starter.

The disadvantage of pitching at high krauesen is that the yeast is still in suspension, so you'll have to pitch the whole thing. (Rather than waiting for the yeast to drop off, when you can pour off the fermented wort and just pitch the yeast.)

If your starter is small, it's not a big deal. With a really big starter, you wouldn't want to dilute your beer with all of that starter beer.

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Ok so this is a good time, now I can't brew till the weekend, thursday at the earliest. Once the krausen disipates I should stick it in the fridge right? Then pour off the wort and warm it back up to pitch temp for the weekend. Should I put some more wort in to get them active again brew day?

I've been trying to shake it up a lot and I can already tell there are quite a few more yeasties than I started with.