mike1978
Well-Known Member
I have been thinking alot lately about making the switch to all grain and was just wondering how much difference is really noticable? Is it worth it, i guess is what im really asking.
Very true. I think treating your yeast right (controlling pitching rates and fermentation temperatures) is more important than extract vs. grain.If you can make great extract beer, you can probably make good all-grain beers. Way too many people make the jump before they know how to make even good beer.
Very true. I think treating your yeast right (controlling pitching rates and fermentation temperatures) is more important than extract vs. grain.
I think its basically the difference between making your own crayon drawing instead of coloring between the lines. Extract gives you a frame work, but it hard to go outside of it. All grain gives you a clean sheet. But, this also means more can go wrong.
You have more control of the flavor profile, but more stuff to calculate and temps to maintain.
Flavor profile is just the start. You also have control of mouthfeel, fermentability, freshness, clarity, and much more. Sure, people can make decent extract beer. But as much as people want to tout the few extract beers that have won medals, all grain beer made correctly will trump extract beer any day of the week.
This is the same issue as dry vs wet yeast. Both will make fantastic beer, there just are certain beers you can't make with one of them.
No, it really isn't. Everyone knows that while limited, the few good strains of dry yeast are as good as the liquid yeast. That has NOTHING to do with what I'm talking about.
Extract is limiting in many ways, one being the level of fermentability. If I want a super dry IPA, I can mash low to convert more starch. If I want it more malty, I mash higher. That right there makes extract a less controllable product.
Color is another issue. You can only get a beer so pale with extract before you're done.
I won't even start on cost, which in my opinion makes it better...
Can extract make good beer? Sure. But the level of control you can get from all grain is still not possible with extract. You can only dial in a beer so far before you run into big brick walls, and there's a reason every great brewer has an all grain rig around.
Don't know as I really agree with you here. I can get mine as pale as ya want it,,,, It cost me around $6 for 6 gals,,,, maybe $6.50 for a darker.
But then again, Im not an extract brewer either, I get my stuff from the grocercy store.
Care to share a little more detail what you mean by "I get my stuff from the grocery store"? Inquiring minds would like to know...
Not getting into the debate, but here's my personal take on it, as a relatively recent convert to AG after doing some extract brews:
You can go to Dell, 'customize' a computer, add a monitor/UPS/etc. buy it as a package, and have it shipped directly to your door. It'll run Windows/Office/Photoshop just fine.
OR, you can buy the parts and build your own computer to your own personal specs. Sometimes this is the only way to fine tune exactly what you want in your machine, and it might be cheaper than buying exactly what you want from someone else, but might take more time.
So, both can produce excellent results, just like extract vs. grain, but you can tweak grain recipes easier than extract, and it'll cost less in supplies (but more in start up materials). Once you go all grain, though, it's really hard to go back to extract (IMO).
Flavor profile is just the start. You also have control of mouthfeel, fermentability, freshness, clarity, and much more. Sure, people can make decent extract beer. But as much as people want to tout the few extract beers that have won medals, all grain beer made correctly will trump extract beer any day of the week.
Thanks for this response,, you are the only one here that hasn't lambasted me for my recipe,,,,,, are you sure your a brewer?????
If you can drink it, then by all means brew whatever you want, who am I to judge. It probably tastes a hell of a lot better than DFH's Festina Peche sour (only beer I've dumped down the sink to date). Though I'd personally rather use the $6 on PBR if I wasn't going to pay the extra for an all-grain recipe.
I think you may be overestimating the number of reasons you think AG gives you more control. I do both extract and AG, plus partial mash. Let's look at each item you claim AG gives you more control over:
- control of mouthfeel,
I have control over this with extract too. Mouthfeel is largely determined by carbonation and non-fermentables (body) right?
- fermentability,
AG has the edge here, I agree, but you can control this with extract too - if you want high fermentability, use extracts that have higher fermentability or use some corn sugar. If you want lower fermentability, use some dark extract, more specialty grains in steeping, or maltodextrin.
- freshness,
Definitely have control over this with extract. Just buy fresh extract from a good supplier.
- clarity,
Definitely have control over this with extract. Use finings, proper conditioning time and cold conditioning and you can get great clarity in extract beers too.
- and much more
like what?
No, it really isn't. Everyone knows that while limited, the few good strains of dry yeast are as good as the liquid yeast. That has NOTHING to do with what I'm talking about.
Extract is limiting in many ways, one being the level of fermentability. If I want a super dry IPA, I can mash low to convert more starch. If I want it more malty, I mash higher. That right there makes extract a less controllable product.
Color is another issue. You can only get a beer so pale with extract before you're done.
I won't even start on cost, which in my opinion makes it better...
Can extract make good beer? Sure. But the level of control you can get from all grain is still not possible with extract. You can only dial in a beer so far before you run into big brick walls, and there's a reason every great brewer has an all grain rig around.
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