Question for longtime extract brewers

I'm relatively new to brewing. After several successful extract batches, I've been somewhat surprised that I enjoy and am fascinated by the process almost as much as I enjoy drinking the beer. I've been my family's primary cook (and a good one) for decades, so I'm very comfortable in the kitchen and with basic food chemistry.

I'm a pretty good candidate for all-grain brewing, I think, except that I'm really trying not to break the bank with this hobby, and since the LHBS is an hour away, I'd pretty-much need a mill in addition to all the other gear, bigger kettle, etc.

Anyway, for longtime extract brewers, what keeps you from going all grain?

Completely satisfied with your extract batches?

Don't have time for longer brew sessions? (I worry about this one, too).

Don't want the expense of purchasing and hassle of storing the gear?

Seems too complicated?

Don't want to become one of those d_cks that accuses others of not being a real brewer?

I've been an extract brewer (with teeny half-assed mini-mashes and steeps) for about 8 years or so.

The only thing stopping me from going AG is time. I have a 3 year old and a 1 year old at home, and I can't take a huge chunk of my weekend to devote to brewing an AG batch. I only get to see my kids for about 3 hours/day on the week-days, so sat and sun are my real times to be Dad and do fun stuff (the 3 hours a day on weekdays is focused mainly on feeding and cleaning the kids, with only about a hour of play in there.)

When my son gets a little older, I'll probably start doing some AG batches here and there that he can help with. He things my beer is cool, and likes to try and decide what the stuff looks like in the fermenter (kraeusen is "pizza" and dry-hops are "salad"). He's eager to help me out with it, but really only gets to chip in on bottling day right now (he's my bottle rinser, iodophor soaker, and bottle-tree assembler.)

-walker

Been extract for about 3 years now and for me the issues are in no particular order.

1) Cost- have been working on a keg system for the house as priority #1
2) Space - Don't really have a good spot to set up/store the gear.
3) Becoming an A-hole beer snob Only kidding. I really respect you all grain guys and you should be proud of the brew you produce.

Time and complexity aren't a problem really and I am very happy with the quality of my extract batches. Once my keg system is up and functional I am sure I will graduate to all grain at some time if only to have the option of doing 10 gal batches in the future.

Partial-mash is still a really good alternative to All Grain. There are a lot of positives to going AG but to me its nothing that I need to get into right now. Most of us extract guys on here will probably say the same thing; that AG requires a large investment, a large amount of space and a large amount of time. The way I look at it is this: its like making a salad (or something like that) you can grow your own vegetables and make your own dressing from scratch, or you can get certain things that are premade from a store and put it together. But at the end of the day, its still fresh and its still something you made, thats what really matters. And its a great alternative to salad in bag...

Hope that makes sense?

I guess I have to concur with most of everything the other guys are saying. I can find many, many more additions to my brewing setup without going AG.

A 30-gallon conical fermenter, a bigger kettle for a full boil, other stuff.

I just don't have the time for AG brewing, and I'm still amazed at how good my beer is!

Simple answer for me. Time.

Time...and a general dislike of added complexity if I do not perceive the need. I am beyond pleased with the product of my simple system. For my taste, my beers are better than anything I've bought commercially. Well, almost everything. My raspberry ale was not as good as one I had at a local brew pub, but it was my first try at a fruit beer, so come on, give me a break!

But I digress!

As long as I am happy with the product, I won't add any process complexity.

Product > process!

Personally, it's space. Living in an apartment right now with my girlfriend with not enough space. Hopefully in a couple years we'll be ready to buy a house and then I plan to start assembling all the right equipment.

Imperial Walker said:

When my son gets a little older, I'll probably start doing some AG batches here and there that he can help with. He things my beer is cool, and likes to try and decide what the stuff looks like in the fermenter (kraeusen is "pizza" and dry-hops are "salad"). He's eager to help me out with it, but really only gets to chip in on bottling day right now (he's my bottle rinser, iodophor soaker, and bottle-tree assembler.)

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I hear you Walker,
I like doing AG batches outside when the weather is nice and my daughter can just play in the yard. Except for decoction mashes I can still devote enough time to her. Once in a while the brew has priority. A big gate around the kettle and burner helps to.

Soon I will try to make a Malzbier. This is pretty much dark, lightly hopped wort that is carbonated. This is something kids can enjoy too and they can even learn how to make it. Teaches them mashing, lautering, boiling, sanitation. When they are 21, you can give them a pack of yeast.

Kai

Edit, I meant "Imperial Walker"

It's always seemed soo complicated. Actually... it still seems soo complicated. I just started putting together equpment to do PM. Going to take that step first then as soon as I get some money to get a good brewpot I'll do AG. But dont know... I keep reading over and over again materieal I have. Extract was comlicated the first time you do it too, I guess I should keep that in mind.

I'm not exactly a 'longtime' extract brewer since I've only been brewing since December. I don't think I'll be going to AG for a long time because of cost and place to stow all the gear, and right now it looks just like voodoo magic. That, and I'm still awed with wonder that with all the boiling, transferring liquid, and swearing colorfully that I do in the kitchen, a month later I'm drinking delicious beer.

I'd love to go all grain. Time and Space are against me. My brewing already takes up all the closet under the stairs. And with a nipper due at the beginning of July, I should savor my free time while it is mine.

Who says extract brewers aren t real brewers. Have you been posting on some other beer site that is infested with idiots who talk about each other more than beer.

I say if its not broke dont fixit.

If you like to brew with extract and it works for you then stick with what works.

However about the equipment costs I will say that some of the equipment can be used to make extract brews easier and actually save you some money. Propane burners are a major investment but in the long run will cost you less especially if you are using a stove top. Propane is cheap especially compared to an electric stove and definitely compared to a gas range. Also you can boil bigger batches and get better breaks.

Immersion chillers too work great chilling beer quickly and effectively allowing better breaks. And having a bigger pot lets you boil bigger batches leeading to less darkening if you are not doing full boils.

And I love brewing outside an a nice sunny day.


Double the Pleasure. Double the Homebrew.

I've seen a few replies concerning space. So far in my attempts to make some AG/PG gear I would certainly not say that it has taken up a lot of space. I mean... we're talking a cooler.... bucket for a HWT (which you probably already have for bottling). If space is the only reason, take a look at some of the pictures in the gallery and you will see that people seem to be doing this without taking up a lot of space.

There are plenty of pictures to this fact, but one that comes to mind is Orfy's setup for instance...


Just a 2 cent thought

davy said:

Who says extract brewers aren t real brewers.

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Hope I did not miss it but I dont think I read this yet. You are very correct. I mean AG brewers in the end do exactly what extract brewers do, make great beer

The only thing i dont consider brewing is dump and stir no boil kits that are prehopped.



For a Hard-Earned Thirst, Homebrew.

I have only been making beer for a few months and have completed about 5 extract batches but I do feel inclined to try my hand at AG. I was really hot to get all the stuff this past week but today I am not so much in a hurry. I have about half the equipment and when the weather warms up I will probably work my way to do it. I have the time at this point in my life.

I am hooked on brewing.. I like my beer, I no longer buy beer,.. extract brewing is easier and less time consuming.. I have no doubt I will switch to all grain, but for now, I still need recipies and advise from friends to make good beer.. When I can come up with one that I like by myself, my journey to the darkside will be complete and I will build a mash tun and go all grain.. until then.. why fix it if it ain't broke?

budbo said:

I am hooked on brewing.. I like my beer, I no longer buy beer,.. extract brewing is easier and less time consuming.. I have no doubt I will switch to all grain, but for now, I still need recipies and advise from friends to make good beer.. When I can come up with one that I like by myself, my journey to the darkside will be complete and I will build a mash tun and go all grain.. until then.. why fix it if it ain't broke?

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Exactly my thoughts Budbo. Plus, pulling off an AG brew in my tiny apartment would be an act of God. I have stepped up to doing the occasionaly mini-mash and I'm ready to convert to the dark side as soon as I'm out of school and out of this apartment. Plus, since last september I've brewed 50 gallons of delicious brew using extracts. No complaints here either.

Like most everyone else who responded, my biggest factor is time. All-grain brewing will double the time spent, easily. I still have other hobbies which need my attention. Also, for me personally, I have many more things I want to try with extract brewing before I feel I know enough for all grain.

davy said:

The only thing i dont consider brewing is dump and stir no boil kits that are prehopped.

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Even these have there "times"... think of it this way..... as least its a first step. I have not met many people who don't want to take the next step from this pretty quickly.

davy said:

Who says extract brewers aren t real brewers. Have you been posting on some other beer site that is infested with idiots who talk about each other more than beer.

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Nah, I was just riffing on some of the more egregious comments made in the latest incarnation of the bleach wars.

I've brewed a number of of extract brews and I've moved up to all grain. First of all most of the extract brews I made were in my opinion excellent. So why bother with all grain? In my case it was challange. Just to see if I could do it. Yes, If you want the very best equipment it will cost you a fortune. In my case I went El cheepo. I paid $39.00 for a turkey fryer at Menards which included a large aluminum pot, a propane cooker and a regulator I don't think you need a grain mill . I get grain and supplies from midweist home brewing in Minneapolis (www.midwestsupplies.com). They grind the grain for free and deliver Fedex to me in the Chicago area in two days. You pay for shipping but no sales tax which is a wash out for me, I Made the mash tun from a 48 gal cooler.

The down side is: It is messy,time consuming and I'm not sure the beer is any better than extract beer. The up side is the challange and fun of making beer from scratch and the cost is about half of what extract beer is.


David

before i finally did go to AG the issue was money. as a poor college kid i just didn't have the money for a 10 gallon stainless brewpot. i had my mash/lauter tun built long before i had a big enough pot. now that i do AG brews though, i will still go back and do some extract brews time to time because AG does take a lot of time. my last brew turned into a two day session because of a really slow sparge. in terms of time, i didn't think about it until i started doing it. AG takes a LOT of time, and unless youre retired already, its a lot of ti,e to devote strictly to brewing. i find it best to find other things to do while i'm brewing. i'll usually go for a hike during the mash, or do some reading, or whatever. even though an AG brew takes 5-6 hours, only an hour or two of taht is spent actually brewing. i fill in the rest of the time with stuff that i norm,ally do during the day anyways. and although i enjoy my AG batches more, my extract batches were still very good, and if i didnt have that nice ten gallon pot i'd still be doing them and enjoying them.

Hello from an AG brewer. First let me say that Extract brewers ARE real brewers (I was one for years too). However, let me say that while switching to AG can be expensive, it doesn't have to be. My first AG setup cost me around $3.00. I'm not kidding- $3.00. I already had a 7 gallon pot (I think you can get an enameled stock pot pretty cheap) and an outdoor burner, so all I needed to buy was a cheap colander from Wally World or Target or whatever. I cut the edge off of it so that the edge would fit snugly in the bottom of my bottling bucket just above the spigot. Throw in the strike water and grains, wrap a couple old blankets around it, and voila- instant mash/lauter tun! All I'm saying is- if you want to go AG you can and it won't break your bank. I have since upgraded my system, but what I had served quite well for over a year.

davidkrau said:

I get grain and supplies from midweist home brewing in Minneapolis (www.midwestsupplies.com). They grind the grain for free and deliver Fedex to me in the Chicago area in two days. You pay for shipping but no sales tax which is a wash out for me...

David

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I like midwest brewer a lot as well, although their website is hard to search in sometimes...

If you call Midwest Supplies at 1-888-449-2739 they will send you a catalog. With respect to AG brewing I started one at 6am today and was finished by 10 am. I love the magic when the grain turns sugary when it's heated with water at 152F

David

I've been an extract brewer for years and plan on becoming an AG brewer when I've collected or built everything that I need as cheaply as possible. So far I have two pumps, frame, casters, ½” copper pipe, various connectors, and burners at no cost. Plus I’ve wrangled a sheet metal shop to cut, drill, and weld my kegs (when I get them) for trade. I’ll get there soon but I’m in no hurry.

Wild

I've been an extract brewer since '93. I don't ever plan on "converting over to the light side" (or whatever).

My reasons for NOT switching are simple: I make good "award winning" beer (2 First Places - Best of Show and Best of Style, in the only contest I've ever entered). I've had other people's AG and was not satisfied. I don't believe I can improve my beers if I used AG.

OK, let's examine the typical weekend:

18 holes of golf (maybe 36, if it's a PERFECT weekend).
Some fly-fishing on the local river (if it's to crappy to play golf).
Home repairs (who the hell broke the toilet/garage door/disposal/etc... Again)
The obligatory NASCAR race (don't laugh, at least it's not wrestling).
Auto repairs & maintenance (hers, mine, and both the teenagers).
Work reports for the Monday morning meeting (the "WAG" report, as we call it).

Throw in an extract/mini-mash brew session while sampling last months kegged offering and listening to some tunes...

Don't bother me, I'm brewing a DAMN good beer!!!


Hopsnort

Personally I'm more excited to move up from 5 gallon batches to something larger in the future before I go all grain. Sometimes I can't decide whether I want to move to LA and be a gaffer on a movie set (and hope for the best) or move somewhere else and open a microbrewery/restaurant!

before i finally did go to AG the issue was money. as a poor college kid i just didn't have the money for a 10 gallon stainless brewpot.

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/sigh I'm married and make 6 figures and can't afford to go AG.. the moral? Don't frigging get married, they will suck your funds and your will to live! oh, it's great for the first 10 years.. then they just leech your accounts as well as your soul....

Just brew, Drink and stay single and happy! :rockin:

Hopsnort said:

Don't bother me, I'm brewing a DAMN good beer!!!Hopsnort

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"Ziggy-Zaggy Ziggy-Zaggy, Hoi Hoi Hoi!" I haven't heard that since my last fest!