Here's what THE Black IPA looks like, straight from its REAL home, in VERMONT: The Vermont Pub & Brewery!!!
The ORIGINAL Black IPA!
- Thread starter Airborneguy
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According to Jamil & Tasty, there used to be Texas brewers who drove out to CA 40-50 years ago to buy supplies... And they brewed a black IPA they called a California IPA. Just goes to show... There are no new beers, just new egos 
Well I'm partial to Cascadian Dark as a name myself, but I heard the first "Black IPA" came from the dark side of the moon. I think it's documented in some lyrics recorded backwards on the Pink Floyd Album of the same name. It really wasn't black after all, but they couldn't tell the difference in the dark of space.
You have the "Black IPA" name
I prefer Cascadian Dark Ale. Piling any hoppy beer into the IPA category is going to make the term useless. I wouldn't care if color were the only difference, but if you put chocolate, or black malt, or any other darkening malt aside from caramel in it, it's a different beer. Should we categorize all beers strictly by the hops and hop schedule? Is a Marzen an IPA if you c-hop it?
I guess I don't see the value of bragging rights to confusing terminology. On the other hand, if it's good beer I'll drink it, whatever you call it.
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Personally, I prefer to give credit to the actual creator of something, not who screams the loudest when fighting over it.
OK, ABG, I've got to brew one of those. I don't care who was first at making it, I know who will be next!
Prymal
Well-Known Member
I am sure that The Vermont Pub & Brewery made one of the first if not the first commercial version of this style but I am sure that hundreds of people tried something similar to it before they did it. I mean before I even knew what a CDA/BIPA was I thought damn I should try and make a really hoppy dark beer "I bet no one ever thought of that before" 
two or three months later I had Hop in the Dark from Deschuettes was proven wrong.
two or three months later I had Hop in the Dark from Deschuettes was proven wrong.
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Enjoy!
It's an awesome style. My wife likes it a lot so I brew one a few times a year.
It's an awesome style. My wife likes it a lot so I brew one a few times a year.
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For what it's worth, this brewpub takes some hits for some reason lately but I definitely disagree. All around it was one of the best I've ever been to. They had two lagers, a brett beer, and a beer brewed with 800lbs of raspberries (and more standard offerings of course). I've been to 54 brewpubs as of today and maybe 2 others had lagers. I've NEVER had a brett beer at a brewpub. More than likely I'll be returning before we go home.
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Can you use a beer XML file? I'm still in Vermont and don't really feel like typing the recipe into the form. I'll send you the file though for sure.
I think I could prob figure out a way to get it open, would not take too much I don't imagine. Sooner or later I will join the beersmith ranks, but currently my brewpal ipod software works just perfect.
Would appreciate the file! Thanks!
Ryan M.
Would appreciate the file! Thanks!
Ryan M.
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PM me your email and I'll send it to you tomorrow (going to bed now).
Couldn't agree more.
Hypothetical question: If I were to make an IPA that was black, using hops from New Zealand, for example, why would I ever name it a "Cascadian Dark Ale"? Isn't the point of that name to describe the region the hops were grown in? Just curious...
Aireborneguy,
As a native Vermonter I have to give you props for discovering the best brewpub between Buffalo and Portland.
If you get a chance, go to waterbury and visit the Alchemist. Buy a case of Heady Topper.
They are a great brewery who unfortunately permanently lost their brewpub to hurricane Irene, that still cans their IPA up on the hill.
To all else, stop hating on the Jeezum Crow! (unofficial state bird and V-pub's mascot)
As a native Vermonter I have to give you props for discovering the best brewpub between Buffalo and Portland.
If you get a chance, go to waterbury and visit the Alchemist. Buy a case of Heady Topper.
They are a great brewery who unfortunately permanently lost their brewpub to hurricane Irene, that still cans their IPA up on the hill.
To all else, stop hating on the Jeezum Crow! (unofficial state bird and V-pub's mascot)
Personally, I prefer to give credit to the actual creator of something, not who screams the loudest when fighting over it.
I think it's naive for anyone in general to claim they were the first to make a black IPA. The inconceivable notion that a single person was uniquely responsible for the creation of something with that simple of a combination, is ridiculous. We get people on these forums who believe that they have created something new, only to find that there is another person who has tried it or even that there is a commercial version of it. The odds of finding the actual creator, are as slim as finding the person who originated the Sandwich. I believe that instead of touting a brewery as the originator, we should be praising them on the merit their beer instead.
Prymal
Well-Known Member
Couldn't agree more.
Hypothetical question: If I were to make an IPA that was black, using hops from New Zealand, for example, why would I ever name it a "Cascadian Dark Ale"? Isn't the point of that name to describe the region the hops were grown in? Just curious...
No the point of the name is to describe the region that the beer came into prevalence. The Yakima valley where Washington Hops are grown is between 1 and 2 hours from the Cascade Mountains and is a very dry climate compared to the Cascades. I personaly like the name Cascadian Dark Ale better then Black IPA just for the plan fact its not contradictory. I also dont like India Dark Ale because the style has come about in the US and has nothing to do with India. I would be happy to seem the style called something stupid like Black Hop Monster over BIPA and IDA.
Prymal
Well-Known Member
Via WIKI
The modern sandwich is named after Lord Sandwich. Evidently John Montagu had been a very conversant gambler. He did not have time to have meal during the play, so he would ask his servants to bring him slices of meat between two slices of bread during his long hours playing at the card table. This habit became well known among his gambling friends and thus the sandwich was born.
Exactly the reason I chose this as an example
another source of controversy and misinterpretation of origin. Even if you use wikipedia as a source, you will notice that it says "It was named after John Montagu, 4th Earl of Sandwich, an 18th-century English aristocrat, although he was neither the inventor nor sustainer of the food."In 1903 British born Patrick Walmer residing in Topeka KS created the first black IPA after over kilning his malt due to having to leave the kiln for the birth of his fourth son, James. He returned to find basically black malt and the rest is history.
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Considering the Brewer's Association has named a style for it already - American Style Black Ale - the odds are high that the BJCP will use the same name eventually.
Personally I never cared until I started to realize that a region of the country was going to try to lobby to make it their own. It struck me as highly pretentious, on par with the hipsters in Brooklyn attempting to re-name neighborhoods that have existed for years. Come to think of it, many hipsters come from the PNW... hmm...
Personally I never cared until I started to realize that a region of the country was going to try to lobby to make it their own. It struck me as highly pretentious, on par with the hipsters in Brooklyn attempting to re-name neighborhoods that have existed for years. Come to think of it, many hipsters come from the PNW... hmm...
two_hearted
Well-Known Member
Then why not go with Yakima Dark Ale if its 2 hours from Cascadia?
Considering the Brewer's Association has named a style for it already - American Style Black Ale - the odds are high that the BJCP will use the same name eventually.
Personally I never cared until I started to realize that a region of the country was going to try to lobby to make it their own. It struck me as highly pretentious, on par with the hipsters in Brooklyn attempting to re-name neighborhoods that have existed for years. Come to think of it, many hipsters come from the PNW... hmm...
This. Between the Brewer's Assn already calling it American Black Ale and the fact the majority of commercial examples are being called Black IPA, I think CDA doesn't stand much of a chance of sticking around.
Black IPA is a better choice, because that's a real description of what it is. An American IPA that's darkened. Even more appropriate would be the name I first heard these called 6 or 8 years ago - Blackened IPA. That name also makes sense.
I like American Style Black Ale, never cared for BIPA, CDA, or IDA, none of those 3 make sense. I have had several good examples of the style, and like the ones with a slight roast flavor. The ones with caraf are pointless to me, if I can close my eyes and not tell it is an ASBA or IPA then why bother, the color is much less important than the taste.
Hee hee (you made that up, right?)
Why is no one taking Black Hop Monster seriously? I ****ing love it. That's what i'm going with. Prymal Black Hop Monster, to give appropriate credit.
ArcaneXor
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As with so many "inventions" and discoveries, it's rarely the first person who gets the credit, but the last one. Hence we have Columbus Day rather than Eriksson Day, and schoolchildren learn that Bell invented the telephone.
Prymal
Well-Known Member
I am glad that I could be a part of history. Though I hadn't heard American Black Ale which I do like a lot.
I find the name Cascadian Dark Ale, like the beer it represents, has a nice look about it...
But leaves a bitter taste on the tongue.
I'm with ABG. The lobbying is what sticks in my craw. American Black Ale is an apt and reasonable alternative. ABA. Holy crap, you realize that's only ONE LETTER away from being ABBA!????
But leaves a bitter taste on the tongue.
I'm with ABG. The lobbying is what sticks in my craw. American Black Ale is an apt and reasonable alternative. ABA. Holy crap, you realize that's only ONE LETTER away from being ABBA!????
That just opens up another can of worms. ABA is American Brown Ale. That's the abbreviation that has been in use for an American Brown for as long as i can remember anyways.
tennesseean_87
Well-Known Member
I like India Black Ale. Have American style IPA's historically been exported to India? They are still called IPA's, and the difference in a BIPA/CDA/et. al. and an IPA is that it is not pale any more. Hence that part of the name should be changed. IPA--> IBA.
I have never had one before.
I have never had one before.
I, too, like the India Black Ale name and use that for my beers. I believe the "Pale" in IPA refered to the malt, not the color of the beer.
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I just left Rock Art Brewery in Vermont and the owner got pretty riled up when we started talking about this beer (they make one called Black Moon). She said that the west is trying to co-opt the style as their own and name it, but that when the Brewer's Association had its meetings there was too much respect for Greg Noonan and the west coast people had no chance.
I like ABA, but I think that we forget that America is huge, and encompasses two continents! We should at the very least isolate the name to North America. Also, the term Black Ale, while concise, does not accurately describe the beer. It is black, but I feel that in the spirit of history and naming conventions, we should call it Mighty Black Ale. I think N.A.M.BL.A or NAMBLA rolls off the tongue nicely.
