Nano Brewery anyone???

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B-Dub

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I heard from a friend that in Seattle folks are renting "active" spaces, like storage units with the ability to "do something" in them. Folks are home brewing in these places and legally selling to the public.

Look up cottage brewing, nano breweries and artisan brewery. There are some hits out there, but no great "ah ha" that enplanes what is going on.

I would venture that most homebrewers have thought about starting a pub or the like over a pint of brew. Kind of fun to think you could sell homebrew and still keep your day job!

Any else hear about this?? Yes.....I have been drinking homebrew......:D
 
I have heard of this. I think there were some recent changes in the law here in WA which makes these types of businesses harder to run. The latest addition of BYO does have an article on guys using homebrew sized systems to brew at an actual business location. They are dealing with small batches and apparently still turning a profit.

Me personally, I don't know if I will ever brew for a career. I love it as a hobby, and see myself loving it as a job, but I'm nowhere near good enough yet IMO to be a pro-brewer.
 
I was kind of looking at the viability of a brewery in a storage unit for a while when i was looking at maybe moving into an apartment... personal use though, not for public sale.

Saw this thread on ProBrewer a little bit ago about small breweries: link
 
Yup, we do have some breweries in very small places here in Seattle. I've had a couple of beers from Two Beers and Schooner Exact and they've been excellent. Here's a few nano-breweries near me:

two beers brewery

Gilligan's Brewing Company

I'm not sure if Schooner Exact guys are in an ActivSpace, but their setup looks a lot like many homebrewers here on the site:

First brew in the new space!!
 
I was actually thinking about trying this. Setting up a very basic business, just getting small loans from family, brewing out of a small warehouse or garage kind of a thing, and kegging and putting some in cases and six packs and just selling to restaurants within 20 miles or whatever, very small distribution. But then again I've been reading Sam Calagione's book "Brewing Up a Business" so my head is full of delusions of grandeur...
 
I say why not go for it? I certainly might try to one day. I would like to find another homebrewer to work with first.

If you never try, you will never know what could have been.
 
One of the basic brewing podcasts I just listened to today talks about the Mt. Caramel Brewery in Cincinatti, Ohio. Just a guy and his wife starting out brewing in their basement.
 
I was actually thinking about trying this. Setting up a very basic business, just getting small loans from family, brewing out of a small warehouse or garage kind of a thing, and kegging and putting some in cases and six packs and just selling to restaurants within 20 miles or whatever, very small distribution. But then again I've been reading Sam Calagione's book "Brewing Up a Business" so my head is full of delusions of grandeur...

Check out East End Brewing in Pittsburgh, that is how he kinda got started.

East End Brewing Company - BUY A GOOD FRIEND A GOOD BEER (tm)
 
Hmm. Very interested in this. If anyone has more info please share. Not that I would be trying to do this any time soon or anything.

Also, how are they able to sell it? I thought you had to get a decent place and licenses and health inspections and all that stuff - as in not easy.
 
That is a lot of work for very little product going out the door!

It reminds me of a guy who wanted to use our pilot equipment to make a 1 bbl batch of beer. "How long will it take?" he asked. "About 6 hours" we replied. "But how long does it take you to brew your full 28 bbls?" "About 6 hours."

He figured a small batch would only take a couple hours. In reality (the moral here) it takes about the same time to produce a large batch as it does a small one.

But I guess I am missing the nano point - it is about the beer and not the nano money.

You want to make a small fortune brewing? Start with a large fortune.
 
I think it's very well done, somebody must have a SWMBO that's a graphic artist.

Ditto, I think there website is very cool. I'm so bored with your standard website. It's nice to see someone make one interesting.


I am not saying it is bad in any way or form !
I really like it

more websites need to be that way !!!!

-Jason
 
How does brewing like that reflect from a legal standpoint. I mean, aren't their taxes you have to pay for selling alcohol? If they are selling directly to the public they need a liquor license... how about for selling to bars/resturants?

I think that would be really cool actually to get a keg a month on sale somewhere. Just to make your favorite restaurant that much cooler.
 
If it is possible to get licensing to do this, I think its a great way to fulfill the pro-brewer bug that we all get, while keeping your day job. I would love to do a ~1bbl batch on Saturdays, bottle, and sell to local bars/beer stores. As long as I could turn enough profit to buy what I want for my nano-brewery, I'd be happy.
 
That is a lot of work for very little product going out the door!

It reminds me of a guy who wanted to use our pilot equipment to make a 1 bbl batch of beer. "How long will it take?" he asked. "About 6 hours" we replied. "But how long does it take you to brew your full 28 bbls?" "About 6 hours."

He figured a small batch would only take a couple hours. In reality (the moral here) it takes about the same time to produce a large batch as it does a small one.

But I guess I am missing the nano point - it is about the beer and not the nano money.

You want to make a small fortune brewing? Start with a large fortune.

That's what I don't get. It applies to almost all scales. A batch of beer, doesn't really matter the size takes the same amount of time. So would you like $10 back for your 6 hours or $1000?
 
That's what I don't get. It applies to almost all scales. A batch of beer, doesn't really matter the size takes the same amount of time. So would you like $10 back for your 6 hours or $1000?

The difference is the cost of equipment and space. Im sure if 90% of the people on this forum had unlimited funds they would set up a 30+ bbl setup in a 10,000sqft warehouse. But when working with limited disposable income, putting together a 1bbl setup in your detached garage is something that could be done reasonably and would be a lot of fun. But brewing 1bbl is excessive for someone whos only feeding beers to his buddies. If you could turn virtually any profit, its worth it, IMO.
 
yeah but at 1bbl you can make more money taking collections when your friends come over.
 
I think the cool idea here is that you can start out brewing 10 gallons a few times a week and sell it with almost no investment other than renting the small space and paying whatever licensing fees there are. Most of us can brew 10 gallons already.

Then as you get more sales or accounts, you can move to 20 gallons without much investment, or move to 1BBL with some new pots, etc. No need to get the $3,000,000 loan to open up something with a 7BBL capacity.

Linc
 
I think the cool idea here is that you can start out brewing 10 gallons a few times a week and sell it with almost no investment other than renting the small space and paying whatever licensing fees there are. Most of us can brew 10 gallons already.

Then as you get more sales or accounts, you can move to 20 gallons without much investment, or move to 1BBL with some new pots, etc. No need to get the $3,000,000 loan to open up something with a 7BBL capacity.

Linc

you forget the cost of all the inspections and licenses. They cost a lot. You're probably looking at an absolute minimum of 2k there.
 
Bah, I hate the problems that come with business dealings with "Sin products"

Uncle Sam will tax you to death to do something like this. Its hard enough for the little guy in America these days, I can't imagine a nano-brewery's problems.

I hear Washington and Oregon just raised their alcohol taxes (although I think in WA it only covers spirits and doesn't go into effect until August... stock up now!)
 
This seems like a really hard way to make a little bit of money. Retailers are the ones that make the money (and not much there either) You pay rent, utilities, taxes, license, ingredients, liability and other insurance, kegs, chemicals, delivery costs and time, promotion, spoilage, equipment and repairs and who knows what else. I can't see much left over at the end of the day. It would be interesting to know what they are able to get for a keg.

If you could retail the product/open a pub or tap room, your margin would increase dramatically. A keg that wholesales for what, maybe $100, could bring in $310 at 2.50 a pint. But that would bring its own problems as well. Liquor laws are really dangerous right now for anyone who is serving the public. You would also have sales tax and different insurance concerns.

If you are interested in this I would highly advise some serious number crunching. I don't mean to be a wet blanket for anyone's dreams, but I do want to offer some words of caution and realism so decisions can be made advisedly.
 
I was actually over at Gilligan's on Saturday. The landlord has extended his lease through the summer, so he'll be brewing till September or so. :mug:
 
If you are interested in this I would highly advise some serious number crunching. I don't mean to be a wet blanket for anyone's dreams, but I do want to offer some words of caution and realism so decisions can be made advisedly.

No one ever wants reason around here on this topic.
 
This seems like a really hard way to make a little bit of money. Retailers are the ones that make the money (and not much there either) You pay rent, utilities, taxes, license, ingredients, liability and other insurance, kegs, chemicals, delivery costs and time, promotion, spoilage, equipment and repairs and who knows what else. I can't see much left over at the end of the day. It would be interesting to know what they are able to get for a keg.

If you could retail the product/open a pub or tap room, your margin would increase dramatically. A keg that wholesales for what, maybe $100, could bring in $310 at 2.50 a pint. But that would bring its own problems as well. Liquor laws are really dangerous right now for anyone who is serving the public. You would also have sales tax and different insurance concerns.

If you are interested in this I would highly advise some serious number crunching. I don't mean to be a wet blanket for anyone's dreams, but I do want to offer some words of caution and realism so decisions can be made advisedly.


I see you point Brewpastor,

I am willing to bet that these places sell their beer for $4-$5 a pint.
For an example, if they have a blonde ale at $4 a pint in a 1/2 bbl keg given that they get 120 glasses out of it that places that brew worth $480.
they would have to sell 2 kegs a week just to cover the cost of brewing and space rent



Granted Washington did just recently change its laws to make things like this possible !
If someone were to do this I think this would be the place for it.
Here are a few of the laws that govern this.


Definition of Beer in Washington State
"Malt beverage" or "malt liquor" means any beverage such as beer, ale, lager beer, stout, and porter obtained by the alcoholic fermentation of an infusion or decoction of pure hops, or pure extract of hops and pure barley malt or other wholesome grain or cereal in pure water containing not more than eight percent of alcohol by weight, and not less than one-half of one percent of alcohol by volume. For the purposes of this title, any such beverage containing more than eight percent of alcohol by weight shall be referred to as "strong beer."



RCW 66.24.244 1) There shall be a license for microbreweries; fee to be one hundred dollars for production of less than sixty thousand barrels of malt liquor, including strong beer, per year

RCW 66.28.120 Every person manufacturing or distributing malt liquor for sale within the state shall put upon all packages containing malt liquor so manufactured or distributed a distinctive label showing the nature of the contents, the name of the person by whom the malt liquor was manufactured, and the place where it was manufactured. For the purpose of this section, the contents of packages containing malt liquor shall be shown by the use of the word "beer," "ale," "malt liquor," "lager," "stout," or "porter," on the outside of the packages.

RCW 66.28.150 Breweries, microbreweries, wineries, distilleries, distributors, certificate of approval holders, and agents authorized to conduct courses of instruction on beer and wine.

RCW 66 covers quite a bit of this

So after reading and searching for 2 days I have found that for about $200 you can have a microbrewery of your own in Washington State, along with being able to teach people how to brew


Most these laws are not very old, less that a year on a few of them.
I think that the novelty of this will wear off soon, sadly it will be when a few people have gone deeply in debt.

As with many for profit ideas a business plan is a must!

For information on starting a micro brewery/pub in WA. ask Brewtopia !

He has a place in Seattle


-Jason
 
I see you point Brewpastor,

I am willing to bet that these places sell their beer for $4-$5 a pint.
For an example, if they have a blonde ale at $4 a pint in a 1/2 bbl keg given that they get 120 glasses out of it that places that brew worth $480.
they would have to sell 2 kegs a week just to cover the cost of brewing and space rent



Granted Washington did just recently change its laws to make things like this possible !
If someone were to do this I think this would be the place for it.
Here are a few of the laws that govern this.


Definition of Beer in Washington State
"Malt beverage" or "malt liquor" means any beverage such as beer, ale, lager beer, stout, and porter obtained by the alcoholic fermentation of an infusion or decoction of pure hops, or pure extract of hops and pure barley malt or other wholesome grain or cereal in pure water containing not more than eight percent of alcohol by weight, and not less than one-half of one percent of alcohol by volume. For the purposes of this title, any such beverage containing more than eight percent of alcohol by weight shall be referred to as "strong beer."



RCW 66.24.244 1) There shall be a license for microbreweries; fee to be one hundred dollars for production of less than sixty thousand barrels of malt liquor, including strong beer, per year

RCW 66.28.120 Every person manufacturing or distributing malt liquor for sale within the state shall put upon all packages containing malt liquor so manufactured or distributed a distinctive label showing the nature of the contents, the name of the person by whom the malt liquor was manufactured, and the place where it was manufactured. For the purpose of this section, the contents of packages containing malt liquor shall be shown by the use of the word "beer," "ale," "malt liquor," "lager," "stout," or "porter," on the outside of the packages.

RCW 66.28.150 Breweries, microbreweries, wineries, distilleries, distributors, certificate of approval holders, and agents authorized to conduct courses of instruction on beer and wine.

RCW 66 covers quite a bit of this

So after reading and searching for 2 days I have found that for about $200 you can have a microbrewery of your own in Washington State, along with being able to teach people how to brew


Most these laws are not very old, less that a year on a few of them.
I think that the novelty of this will wear off soon, sadly it will be when a few people have gone deeply in debt.

As with many for profit ideas a business plan is a must!

For information on starting a micro brewery/pub in WA. ask Brewtopia !

He has a place in Seattle


-Jason

So does that mean you will be opening a brewpub in town when you get back? I can contribute !
 
umm NO!

I have a wife and kids, I don't have the time for a project like a brew pub !

Now a few taps in my basement I think I can do !

That and Seattle in only a few hours away

-Jason
 
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