Putting lipstick on a pig: An experiment in making Welch's grape juice wine

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jagec

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Hi,

I've made a few batches of Welch's Concord grape juice wine based on Yooper's recipe, and while I certainly didn't expect to get anything world-class, I was both pleased by the results and interested in how I could improve them. I'm intrigued by the idea of tweaking the recipe to make a $1 bottle of wine that will fool your friends into thinking that it's (low-end) commercial. I want to pull out every cheap trick that people use to disguise bad wine, while keeping the costs as LOW as possible. But I'm still pretty new at this, so I'd welcome any suggestions!

Here goes:
2 cans Welch's 100% concord grape juice concentrate
Sugar and water to 1 gallon, with a final OG of 1.090
Measure TA using test kit, adjust as needed to 0.7% or so
1 tsp Yeast nutrient
8 oz chopped raisins (redundant?)
1 banana?
1 tsp pectic enzyme
1/2 oz oak chips (Medium Heavy toast American oak sound best?)

Leave overnight before adding yeast to allow pectic enzyme to act. Add yeast. After a week, add airlock.

Taste every few weeks, once it's slightly too oaky, rack into new jug. Stabillize, degas.

After a few weeks, taste, backsweeten slightly to balance acidity and bring out fruit flavors, taste, add glycerine (Probably in the ballpark of 1/2 oz?) to increase mouthfeel, taste, add tannin(?), taste, bottle. Age a couple of months at least.


Thoughts? Is oaking and adding tannin a bad idea for this wine? I felt that my versions so far have lacked in complexity, with my best attempt being when I added acid blend and then backsweetened slightly afterwards.

Any other "dirty tricks" to save money or build complexity in this wine?
 
I'm no expert winemaker, but I am good at being a cheapskate!;)

I've noticed wines people tend to call complex also have 'hints' of other fruits. You might try adding some other cheap fruit concentrate in the secondary. Maybe some vanilla? I couldn't guess on what measurements to suggest... Just do it to taste.

Oh! My friend who does wine for a living suggested mixing batches of different yeast strains. Do 1 gallon with a yeast strain that brings out aroma and another that brings out fruity tastes. Then blend them and you have a aromatic fruity wine that is naturally complex.
 
A friend of mine made some welch's concord which is in the secondary now. He called me up and asked about oaking or other ideas to deal with the strong concord flavor. I said oaking is certainly one possibility, but that he might try going *with* the concord flavor and consider using the wine for Sangria (while it's still summer anyway) ... for wine coolers with sparkling water and sweetened with a fruit syrup (blackberry, currant, etc) ... and this winter for hot spiced wine with cinnamon cloves and lemon and orange peel. He's going to visit once it gets cold and bring some of the spiced wine for hot wine.
 
That's an idea. Using good wine for sangria always seemed a waste to me. Id really be interested to hear how to make wines 'complex' and 'full' and 'with body' too though. C'mon you winos! Where's your two cents?

Yooper? Your like the queen bee of HBT winemaking. Care to enlighten us aspiring sommeliers and vinos?
 
When back sweetening I think it will be redundant to add in tannins at that point. I think you will have plenty by adding the raisins and oaking. However if you want the heavier body/mouth feel then may try replacing a cup of water with a cup of strong Earl Grey Tea. Or any herbal tea to your taste. That will help with a little body/mouth feel along with adding a bit of "complexity".
 
Some good suggestions. I was also thinking about using THREE cans of concentrate for a gallon batch, but worry that it might make the wine too fruity. Also, that instantly raises the price of a bottle by almost 50%.
 
When back sweetening I think it will be redundant to add in tannins at that point. I think you will have plenty by adding the raisins and oaking. However if you want the heavier body/mouth feel then may try replacing a cup of water with a cup of strong Earl Grey Tea. Or any herbal tea to your taste. That will help with a little body/mouth feel along with adding a bit of "complexity".

+1 on the tea. I've used various teas, earl gray, constant comment etc with good results.

Adding tannins ... grape tannins that is (which is generally the tannin powder purchased at the brewing/vinting store) is sometimes a bit too bitter when added after the primary ferment. This is why the type of tannin that comes from wood/oaking is what is generally used with wine after primary fermentation.

Here's a post re using tannin ...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/wine-tannin-351463/#post4382358
 
Its true you can ferment anything, Rats, mice ferrets etc. Not sure how these beauties got into the primary, but I have heard stories about it. In all seriousness though, any kind of juice can ferment. In jail they call it hooch made from yeast sediment from wet bread. I guess it does get you drunk, but not sure I would drink it. Concord grape juice, orange juice, apple juice, maple syrup, old hardened honey all will ferment out. All that is needed is a sterile environment and an airlock, yeast (yes any kind of yeast will do), wait a few days or until the airlock stops bubbling and wham mo you have alcohol. Personal taste is the difference. Hell I remember drinking black label at a dollar and a half in the early 80's. Then I also heard a story of how the employs were so disgruntled that they pissed in the fermentation tanks. Never drank it again and never heard from Black Label again. Guess they went out of business.
 
Unferth said:
Oh the musty goodness Johnny walker... Wait, are you suggesting we pee in our wine?

OP did say he wanted cheap complexity ;-)
 
Oh the musty goodness Johnny walker... Wait, are you suggesting we pee in our wine?


Black Label use to be a beer for a buck and a half for a 6pack. Yea, thats right.....It really use to cost 1.5 dollars for 6 beers. I have heard of people pissing out Johnny Walker, but never pissing in Johnny Walker.
:D

Look what I found:

http://heymabelblacklabel.com/id23.htm

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Black Label use to be a beer for a buck and a half for a 6pack. Yea, thats right.....It really use to cost 1.5 dollars for 6 beers.

Black Label, er ... "Carling's" was my #1 cheap beer for a long time.
There was a Black Label commercial in which Redd Foxx was a waiter on water skis and would ski up to the waterside table to serve the beer with the Black Label jingle being whistled in the background. Cool old commercial.

btw the cheapest beer I can recall was Schoenling's Big Jug - 64oz for 99cents ... followed by Falstaff at $6 bucks and change for a case. Schoenling were the folks who made Little Kings.

Buckhorn, Top Hat, and Farmer Jack's "No-Brand" (which had a label that consisted of the red circle with a line through it on a white background) were all really inexpensive too ... but I think Big Jug takes the cake.
 
you will not get a full bodied wine starting with concentrates, there is too much sugar added for the wine to be full bodied. california uses pure grape juice to make wine with very little or no sugar added. when working with concentrates, you get what you get, you can add tannin to the must but thats about it.
 
Started the wines yesterday.

Each had 8 oz of soaked and chopped raisins, half a cup of STRONG Earl Grey tea, 1/2 tsp yeast nutrient and 1 tsp pectic enzyme.

First wine had 3 cans of concentrate, second had 2 cans plus .5 lb of sugar. OGs were 1.086 and 1.080 respectively.

I took samples, sealed them up, and let the pectic enzyme work overnight.

Today I measured the samples...pH of 3.44 and TA of .67% for the first, pH of 3.51 and TA of .37% for the second. I added a teaspoon of acid blend to the first and 4 tsp to the second to get them both to .77%, then pitched 1/2 packet of Pasteur red on the first and 1/2 packet of Montrachet on the second, covered each with a napkin, and put them in the basement.

Total cost:
$12.50 concentrate
$4 raisins
$1 yeast (assuming that I use the other 1/2 packet of each before it goes bad)
$2 Medium toast Hungarian oak cubes (will add to secondary)
$0.50 1 tea bag, 1 banana, yeast nutrient and pectic enzyme
=$20 for 2 gallons, or $2 a bottle.

Here they are. Wish me luck!
img3180q.jpg
 
That sounds like a cool experiment. I'm not familiar with Pasteur red, though, what kind of profile do you expect?

Are you planning on blending it with the very dry Montrachet I assume?
 
That sounds like a cool experiment. I'm not familiar with Pasteur red, though, what kind of profile do you expect?

Are you planning on blending it with the very dry Montrachet I assume?

Honestly I'm not really sure what to expect. The phrasing that the manufacturer uses for both strains I find very vague, and after all, these aren't "high quality wine grapes". Pasteur Red does claim that it can "bring character to the lightest wines", which would be good if true. Montrachet is supposed to be more neutral.

I am planning on blending them. They should both ferment out pretty dry, and then I'll backsweeten just a touch to balance the acidity, and add glycerine for a bit more body.

Both wines were fizzing along nicely this morning.
 
Sub'd! Keep me posted! I've become somewhat of a beer snob, but I likes me some cheap wine (except for the stuff Price Chopper discounted to like $2 a couple years ago).
 
Ditto. I'm going to start playing with blending just as soon as I get me some smaller carboys. It seems like a cheap way to really fill out wines.

My aforementioned friend said it wouldn't be much use in blending the yeast within the same batch in most cases, as the stronger of the yeasts will take over. I think what you have going might yield some neat variations from the original recipe. I'd kiss this pig for sure
 
Both wines are in secondary on oak cubes now. The tastes that I took on transferring weren't promising...I think I may have made a mistake by adding acid blend based on TA, rather than by taste. Both batches are entirely too tart at this point. Hopefully they'll mellow out over the next few weeks.
 
You could try a malolactic culture to reduce the malic acid. Might help.
 
bump / Yoopers been called out - / where are ya bro... wheres the input... im curious although I never made a batch of wine...(unless EdWorts Apfelwein is "wine")
 
jagec said:
Both wines are in secondary on oak cubes now. The tastes that I took on transferring weren't promising...I think I may have made a mistake by adding acid blend based on TA, rather than by taste. Both batches are entirely too tart at this point. Hopefully they'll mellow out over the next few weeks.

Relax. Your wines are VERY young. Give it until Christmas.
 
Honda88 said:
you will not get a full bodied wine starting with concentrates, there is too much sugar added for the wine to be full bodied. california uses pure grape juice to make wine with very little or no sugar added. when working with concentrates, you get what you get, you can add tannin to the must but thats about it.

What about preservative free grape juice, then? Still way cheaper than the California grape juice kits in the wine store...?
 
Relax. Your wines are VERY young. Give it until Christmas.

Yeah, I'm hoping that they will mellow out, but it's possible with this wine that the young, "rough" flavors would have compensated for the fundamental lack of body.:D

I'll be tasting every few weeks to see how things are progressing.
 
i have made 2 gallons, one i drank young the other is still bulk aging, the sample is already much much nicer after sitting for a few more months. I want to sweeten it with a juice concentrate when i get ready to bottle which should be soon, that will add a little something, just not sure what flavor to use yet, i'm tempted to try cranberry but its already pretty tart, cranapple maybe or white grape? I like it dry but my wife wont drink it like that and we made this batch together as her first attempt at joining in on my hobby.
 
my 2 cents 'ive did this it didnt turn out bad ,i backsweeten my wine which had a flavor i didnt like with tropical punch koolaide that already had its own sugar made it drinkable of course it was rocket fuel but it made it better; Just sweeten to taste and as the book says dont worry you only doing a gallon I did ten
 
my 2 cents 'ive did this it didnt turn out bad ,i backsweeten my wine which had a flavor i didnt like with tropical punch koolaide that already had its own sugar made it drinkable of course it was rocket fuel but it made it better; Just sweeten to taste and as the book says dont worry you only doing a gallon I did ten

Wait, so you've made a double batch of welches concentrate wine supplemented with raisins, banana, and Hungarian oak chips which you then split fermented in two separate batches using Montrachet and red Pasteur, then blended them? And it turned out bad?

Or, you did a 10 gal batch of welches concentrate and it turned out poorly?

Sorry for clarification request, but it just seems like an awful specific recipe...
 
I was really thinking about doing this even before I saw this thread! I was thinking pressing a couple of blackberries for juice, oak chips, etc, etc
 
Welches has a white grape-peach blend concentrate (also has pear juice if I recall) that I saw in the store the other day. I picked up 3 12oz cans, one of which will get made up into plain juice so I can make sure I like it :). But it sounds promising.
 
springmom, i have been trying to find some of that to use as well i have another batch that i started with walmart juice white grape/peach and its pretty good sofar. each time we do a gallon of welches red we start a gallon of white grape peach, soon we will just have to switch to 5 gallon batches i think.
 
nope i made pear wine which i got to sweet then to fix it i made some grape welches really dry and mixed it didnt turn out well so i backsweetened with the tropical punch sweeet koolaide mix to taste made it drinkable in other words i used it to cover up 2 mistakes not for just the welches and i didnt follow that recipe i was just making a fix for my own mess up sorry if i wasnt clear
 
Today I bought a can of generic 100% concord concentrate for a 1/2 gallon batch. I added a 1/3 cup of sugar, mashed up five blackberries, a drop of raspberry extract I had around, and a couple drops of real imitation vanilla extract. I wanted to go conservative, taste, and maybe add some more. I might get out some oak chips for my smoker and toast a half ounce. My goal is to make as nuanced of a wine as possible, and if it doesn't work, Im only out three dollars.

I'm naming it Ghettodel. (Zinfandel) will post my results and photos!
 
Update: I tried the wine today. First I mixed a splash of each in a glass and tasted it. The nose is actually better than I was expecting, but the body was still pretty thin and the taste was excessively tart. Oak is not making much of an appearance yet, so I think I'll give it a few more weeks at least.

After the taste, I added a few drops of glycerine and some wine conditioner to see if things improved. They did, markedly. The tartness was no longer evident, and while I probably overdid it on conditioner, the wine had become much more balanced. It was a far cry from the big, bold cabs that I tend to like, but it actually tasted remarkably like some of the inoffensive commercial reds that I've encountered. And it certainly tasted much "fuller" than the standard recipe.

I'll update again in a few weeks when the oak has made more of an appearance.
 
Well, let's face it. We aren't doing this to keep the vintners at Stag's Leap up all night worrying. We want pleasant drinkable wine, and the idea of using this for sangria is perfect. I went ahead and got the white grape-peach going and it's sitting in secondary. Amazingly yummy smelling, but I'll wait until its racked again to taste it. It is never going to taste like Kendall-Jackson's Grand Reserve Chardonnay, but if I want that I'll go to the store and buy some. It's still going to be good, I think.
 
updates anyone? My batch got spilled by a family member so I'm going to start it back up this week.

I had another taste of mine, but I still think I want to give it more time to get oaky. It is certainly getting *better*, but it still has a long way to go.
 
mine are still sitting under air lock no noticeable lee's to rack off of so i'll just let them continue to bulk age for a few more months.
 
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