Syracuse, ny - round 6 group grain buy

I left it at the factory .039 and hit my projected OG. I'm not really sure how to measure efficiency. Fairly log brew day - I am soooo disorganized!

Smashing said:

I left it at the factory .039 and hit my projected OG. I'm not really sure how to measure efficiency. Fairly log brew day - I am soooo disorganized!

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oh for some reaosn i thought it was at 0.042" but thats good, do you have beersmith? you can calculate it for that

did you hit directly on or high/low? and what did you assume it for 75% eff?

I've used this page to calculate efficiency in the past: Brewhouse Efficiency Calculator | Brewer's Friend

The trick is to measure your preboil gravity... which I always hate doing because I have to wait for it to cool.

I use Beersmith. I have it set for 72% eff and it show's an estimated eff of 79.2% with a projected OG of 1.058. I hit .058 on the nose @ 70 degrees. So does that mean I mashed @ 79% eff??

TwoGunz said:

I've used this page to calculate efficiency in the past: Brewhouse Efficiency Calculator | Brewer's Friend

The trick is to measure your preboil gravity... which I always hate doing because I have to wait for it to cool.

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using this show's I only got 55% eff. What the eff? I over shot my sparge and had a little too much wort so I increased my boil length to compensate. Maybe that hurt me a little?

Mash efficiency is determined by your preboil gravity. I use a refractometer to check preboil and postboil gravity. If using a hydrometer the sample needs to be cooled to get accurate readings. If you plug in your numbers including volume collected into beersmith it will show your efficiency into the boiler and brewhouse efficiency.

Although you should measure preboil gravity to see if you need to make any adjustments, the extraction efficiency can be calculated using the post-boil numbers, as the quantity or mass of sugar remains constant while the concentration changes, so you just need to know (accurately) the volume.

So, say you had 5.5 gallons in the kettle after the boil with an OG of 1.052. That would mean you extracted 5.5 x 52 = 286 "points" from your mash. If your recipe was 10 pounds of pale ale malt with a 38 points/pound/gallon (ppg) maximum, your efficiency would be 286/380 = 75%. The preboil gravity should give you the same result, i.e. if you had 7 gallons preboil, you should have had a SG of 1.041 ( 286 points / 7 gal).

I bought a Barley Crusher after using a friend's a couple of times, and the first two times I used mine with the factory roller spacing, I got stuck sparges! Now, I didn't "mash-out" but I had a stainless braid in a Rubbermaid drink cooler and batch sparge. My last batch, though, I widened the spacing a little bit, infused to get a mash-out temp of around 168°, and it drained like a champ. And I still hit 75% efficiency so I was happy with that.

In for some kegs if it happens!

My coors light clone! Came out great. Id say between a coors light/coors is where it really is.

TwoGunz said:

The trick is to measure your preboil gravity... which I always hate doing because I have to wait for it to cool.

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CBK said:

If using a hydrometer the sample needs to be cooled to get accurate readings.

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Can't you just adjust for temperature when determining the SG? That's what I usually do when I'm checking post-boil, after fermentation, after cold crashing, etc.

I just made my first all grain batch (Centennial Blonde). Overall, it went okay although I only wound up with 4.25 gal into the fermenter. Also, I'm not sure if it's because of the ambient temp, but next time I'll raise the temp of my strike and sparge water to hit my target mash/sparge temps which were both kind of low.

drocu said:

Can't you just adjust for temperature when determining the SG? That's what I usually do when I'm checking post-boil, after fermentation, after cold crashing, etc.

I just made my first all grain batch (Centennial Blonde). Overall, it went okay although I only wound up with 4.25 gal into the fermenter. Also, I'm not sure if it's because of the ambient temp, but next time I'll raise the temp of my strike and sparge water to hit my target mash/sparge temps which were both kind of low.

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Buy one of these: Refractometer w/ ATC

Can measure wort gravity without cooling and only takes 2 drops! I measure the gravity of my runnings as i batch sparge. HIGHLY recommend this tool!:rockin:

+1 to getting a refractometer! Just keep your hydrometer because post fermentation the alcohol can affect the refractometer.

drocu said:

Can't you just adjust for temperature when determining the SG? That's what I usually do when I'm checking post-boil, after fermentation, after cold crashing, etc.

I just made my first all grain batch (Centennial Blonde). Overall, it went okay although I only wound up with 4.25 gal into the fermenter. Also, I'm not sure if it's because of the ambient temp, but next time I'll raise the temp of my strike and sparge water to hit my target mash/sparge temps which were both kind of low.

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Yes, you can adjust for temperature.

I usually take SG readings for my Mash output and batch sparge output. Then the pre-boil SG is:
((Mash SG * Mash volume) + (Batch Sparge SG * Batch Sparge Volume))/ (Mash Volume + Batch Sparge Volume).

I do this because then I know before I add the sparge liquid to my mash liquid both whether I am hitting my estimated pre-boil volume and whether I am hitting my estimated pre-boil SG. I can adjust how much of the 2nd runnings (the batch sparge liquid) down (if low on pre-boil SG) or up (by adding water or doing an additional batch sparge).

Was your pre-boil volume on target? (Either that was low or your boil off was longer or higher than expected.)

Mparsons327 said:

+1 to getting a refractometer! Just keep your hydrometer because post fermentation the alcohol can affect the refractometer.

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Yeah, forgot to mention that. Only good for per-fermentation wort. But its awesome to measure gravity of your mash too!

The refractometers are nice because you can take a sample in hte pipet from your boil and it takes just a few moments to cool down to room temp. However I have noticed my refractometer needs recalibrating now and then, so I tend to only really trust my hydrometer (but it is good ball parking tool).

I used to take readings all the way through the brew process, but I seemed to hit my numbers so consistently as I have dialed my system in, so I only check o.g. as I add to fermenter and F.G. now.

drocu, - key to your mash will always be stable mash temp. Wrap your MT in towels or other insulation like material to keep your gravity constant and not sliding more than a degree. reheat at 30 minutes if needed. Get a good thermometer

Also try to mash with a thinner 50/50 mash/sparge ratio. That is, using about half of your water needs in your mash so you can mash, then batch sparge once for the remainder of your preboil needs.

Also - you might want to adjust your future batches to 5.5 gallons if you can. With AG there tends to be a good about of hotbreak and coldbreak along with yeast, etc. in the fermenter. If you shoot for 5.5G batches your yield will be about 5 gallons less all that trub. This is why I do 11G batches (so I end up with two full 5G kegs). YMMV


unrelated but - wired up my temp control for my ale double demi fermentation chamber this weekend. Also sealed in the top and need to move some stuff so I can move on the the final stage of sealing up the chamber.

Cut up a bunch of the steel for my brew stand!! hopefully welding it up this weekend

CidahMastah said:

Also - you might want to adjust your future batches to 5.5 gallons if you can. With AG there tends to be a good about of hotbreak and coldbreak along with yeast, etc. in the fermenter. If you shoot for 535G batches your yield will be about 5 gallons less all that trub. This is why I do 11G batches (so I end up with two full 5G kegs). YMMV

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Not that I've been doing this all that long, but that's what I like about SW like BeerSmith, you just plug in how much you want in the end along with things like trub loss, etc. and it calculates the needed volumes along the way.

CidahMastah said:

The refractometers are nice because you can take a sample in hte pipet from your boil and it takes just a few moments to cool down to room temp. However I have noticed my refractometer needs recalibrating now and then, so I tend to only really trust my hydrometer (but it is good ball parking tool).

I used to take readings all the way through the brew process, but I seemed to hit my numbers so consistently as I have dialed my system in, so I only check o.g. as I add to fermenter and F.G. now.

drocu, - key to your mash will always be stable mash temp. Wrap your MT in towels or other insulation like material to keep your gravity constant and not sliding more than a degree. reheat at 30 minutes if needed. Get a good thermometer

Also try to mash with a thinner 50/50 mash/sparge ratio. That is, using about half of your water needs in your mash so you can mash, then batch sparge once for the remainder of your preboil needs.

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Yeah I keep a jug of distilled water around and recal it every few batches. Only takes 2 seconds.

I have been using refractometers long enough to know that the slightest bump can throw them off. That being said I calibrate both of mine each time I use them. Are there any other salt water aquarium keepers here?

+ 1 to beersmith. I think if there is one thing that will allow you to become more consistent and make better beer that has nothing to do with malt or hops... get brewing software. helps you track your stuff and dial in your system and repeat your brew results. Before I got BS, I just through in the hops in even amounts, never checked the AA%'s etc. I still made good brew but the batches were slightly different. Now I always balance the hop additions based on AA%'s and can get pretty darn close with repeating the flavors, and the entire process in general. It made me pay attention to the details.

Didn't even know that brewsmith had that feature!

By the way - nice brew jhenderson! very cool. I am thinking about doing my version of SN's celebration to clear out some cascade hops I have this weekend.

My target pre-boil volume looked about right: 6.5 gallons. I think the boil was just too vigorous. Next time I'll try more of a simmer.

I'll definitely try wrapping my MLT to insulate it better. And yes, I definitely need a good thermometer since I'm just rocking a cheap floating one.

I don't see the need for a refractometer which just sounds like another gadget. My hydrometer works just fine and like I said, I don't bother cooling my sample and just adjust for temperature instead.

drocu said:

My target pre-boil volume looked about right: 6.5 gallons. I think the boil was just too vigorous. Next time I'll try more of a simmer.

I'll definitely try wrapping my MLT to insulate it better. And yes, I definitely need a good thermometer since I'm just rocking a cheap floating one.

I don't see the need for a refractometer which just sounds like another gadget. My hydrometer works just fine and like I said, I don't bother cooling my sample and just adjust for temperature instead.

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Yeah refractometers are nice for several reasons, but certainly another gadget.

Once you get your hot break, boil vigor doesn't matter. So get your hot break and dial back to a regular boil. Same with cold break. It is most crucial to get your wort down to 130F in the first say 10-15 minutes or faster if you can (I think it takes me about 8 minutes to chill get to 120F on my setup). After that if it takes a while that is ok.

Im just stoked at clarity and the lack of flavor/off tastes. O **** you not i literally made almost flavorless beer. It gives a nod and confidence boost in brewing abilities. The parents and sponsors will enjoy it!

Lagering was kinda interesting. I did it the natural ambient outside way. I got 3 weeks of 40* weather in my storage unit and it came out well.

Now talking excited is the thouht of celebration, mind passing the recipe? I did a pkrter yesterday. A glbc eddie fitz INSPIRED not clone brew.

jhenderson27 said:

Im just stoked at clarity and the lack of flavor/off tastes. O **** you not i literally made almost flavorless beer. It gives a nod and confidence boost in brewing abilities. The parents and sponsors will enjoy it!

Lagering was kinda interesting. I did it the natural ambient outside way. I got 3 weeks of 40* weather in my storage unit and it came out well.

Now talking excited is the thouht of celebration, mind passing the recipe? I did a pkrter yesterday. A glbc eddie fitz INSPIRED not clone brew.

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You want the beer smith file? or me to write it here?

See attached if you can read it. You will obviously have to change it down to 5G

I am going with a 90 minute boil because that is what I did with the SN Torpedo brew and it was supposed to support more of the caramel nuances. Since it worked out so well for torpedo... eh, no need to change that boil time IMO.

Also I am going to us CM-PALE because I have two bags of it and it should compliment this recipe quite well.

I haven't decided if I care about the whirlpool part of the brew. i.e. the whirlpool part as noted will likely just be me whirlpooling during chilling. I won't wait 10-15 minutes and whirlpool before I start chilling.

CidahMastah said:

You want the beer smith file? or me to write it here?

See attached if you can read it. You will obviously have to change it down to 5G

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Cidah,
Can you attach the .bsm file? This one is on my to-do list (even though I bought a case of the real stuff). Just need to get some Centennial first... all out.

Also, I've got a variety of other hops that I am looking for known-good recipe's to use: Chinook, Columbus, Crystal, Mt Hood, Northern Brewer, Saaz, Williamette, Magnum, Perle, Columbus.

I also have a bunch of Cascade (local), but I am looking for suggestions as I've seemed to brew a bunch of stuff that used Centennial, Cascade, and EKG...looking to expand my hops usage (since I already have them!).

copyright1997 said:

Cidah,
Can you attach the .bsm file? This one is on my to-do list (even though I bought a case of the real stuff). Just need to get some Centennial first... all out.

Also, I've got a variety of other hops that I am looking for known-good recipe's to use: Chinook, Columbus, Crystal, Mt Hood, Northern Brewer, Saaz, Williamette, Magnum, Perle, Columbus.

I also have a bunch of Cascade (local), but I am looking for suggestions as I've seemed to brew a bunch of stuff that used Centennial, Cascade, and EKG...looking to expand my hops usage (since I already have them!).

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+1 This and Nugget Nectar are two that I really look forward to. Already went through 1/2 case of this.

copyright1997 said:

Cidah,
Can you attach the .bsm file?

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+1 Love me some celebration ale.

how do you attach a bsm file? can't figure out how...

Cut hop schedule in half? Any specific reason you use grams vs oz? Looks like their pale with diff hops!

This is the recipe that the brewer gave out the information for on a CYBI + the website. If you check out the SN website I used info from there too.

I use grams because it is easier to measure and get the alpha acids that the brewer said are present. So if he said 30 bittering IBUs I add until the IBUs = exactly 30. There are ~28g per oz.

I will figure out how to get the bsm file up there for you guys (hopefully today).

CidahMastah said:

This is the recipe that the brewer gave out the information for on a CYBI + the website. If you check out the SN website I used info from there too.

I use grams because it is easier to measure and get the alpha acids that the brewer said are present. So if he said 30 bittering IBUs I add until the IBUs = exactly 30. There are ~28g per oz.

I will figure out how to get the bsm file up there for you guys (hopefully today).

Click to expand...

In BeerSmith, on the recipe menu, select the (don't open it). Then do a file->export selected and create the .bsm file.

For upload, on the post menu there is an icon that looks like a paper clip. Unfortunately, this only seems to support things like images (I know I've seen them attached directly but I can't figure out how to).

So, alternatively you can use something like dropbox. Here's a link to a Mirror Pond Clone I did (and everyone including BMC drinkers seem to like):
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17110275/Mirror%20Pond%20Clone.bsmx

I knew how to export the file, just was disappointed that you couldn't attach a BSM file... oh well - thanks though!

jhenderson27 said:

Cut hop schedule in half? Any specific reason you use grams vs oz? Looks like their pale with diff hops!

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So the key difference would be 65IBUs on celebration vs. 30IBUs on the pale. That and of course... different hops


If you guys want the BSM file - just PM me your email address and I will send it along.

Here is the recipe with the IBU's so you can convert to the AA% you have in your hops.




Recipe: Celebration Ale
Style: India Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 11.00 gal
Boil Size: 14.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.065 SG
Estimated Color: 13.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 68.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
23 lbs 12.0 ozPale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 88.45 %
3 lbs 1.6 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 11.55 %
49.00 gm Centennial [10.00 %] (Dry Hop 14 days) Hops -
98.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 14 days) Hops -
57.00 gm Chinook [13.00 %] (60 min) Hops 40.4 IBU
49.00 gm Centennial [10.00 %] (15 min) Hops 13.3 IBU
98.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (15 min) Hops 14.6 IBU
98.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (0 min) Hops -
49.00 gm Centennial [10.00 %] (0 min) Hops -
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale
1 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 26.85 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 33.56 qt of water at 168.2 F 156.0 F


Notes:
------
Use CM-PALE or CM-2ROW
156F mash
Ferment 62F ramp to and hold at 68F
98g Cascade @ 5.5% (0 - whirlpool 10-15min)
49g Centennial @ 10.00% (0 - whirlpool 10-15min)
1.065-1.016 (as per website)

Hey cidah any chance you could down it to 5g in beersmith for the hops as my beersmith lapsed and i haven't bought a copy yet. Id appreciate it.

No problem - here you go:


Recipe: Celebration Ale 5g
Style: India Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.065 SG
Estimated Color: 13.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 68.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
10 lbs 12.7 ozPale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 88.45 %
1 lbs 6.5 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 11.55 %
22.27 gm Centennial [10.00 %] (Dry Hop 14 days) Hops -
44.55 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 14 days) Hops -
24.85 gm Chinook [13.00 %] (60 min) Hops 40.4 IBU
21.36 gm Centennial [10.00 %] (15 min) Hops 13.3 IBU
42.72 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (15 min) Hops 14.6 IBU
22.27 gm Centennial [10.00 %] (0 min) Hops -
44.55 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (0 min) Hops -
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale
1 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 12.20 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 15.25 qt of water at 168.2 F 156.0 F


Notes:
------
Use CM-PALE or CM-2ROW
156F mash
Ferment 62F ramp to and hold at 68F
98g Cascade @ 5.5% (0 - whirlpool 10-15min)
49g Centennial @ 10.00% (0 - whirlpool 10-15min)
1.065-1.016 (as per website)

Nitro Tank filling info

Just a heads up on those Nitrogen tanks that we got (filling with the beer 90 mix (75/25; N:CO2)).

Dropped it off at haun today and they will fill it (good news); but they won't fill it on the spot (bad news). Cost to fill is ~26$, but I won't know until I pick it up. Likely I think I will move to a 60cu tank when i have the cash just for the gas savings (depending on how quickly I kick this smaller tank).

So other info: Previously Haun had told me they were only going to continue the 60cu tanks for nitrogen, but this guys said they have the 40 for swapping too. Here are the details ish, for pricing:

20cu ~N/A at Haun anymore (we got ours for around $40 w/shipping); Drop off refill ~$30
40cu ~$148 for initial tank buy: Swap Refills ~$30 - might be more
60cu ~$162 for initial tank buy: Swap Refills ~$36 - might be more

I have a feeling I might grab a 60 can down the line, depending on how fast I go through the gas. However this 23cu tank we got will be great for now, and also as a portable tank. Say if I want to haul brew out to a camp get together. Just carb the beer fully and hook up to the beer gas to dispense.

Anyway - just some information for you guys.

Why 2 yeasts or is it an option. Or is it used to blend flavors to the desired.

jhenderson27 said:

Why 2 yeasts or is it an option. Or is it used to blend flavors to the desired.

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wyeast 1056 is the same strain as WLP001. I always put in the yeast type from both brands so in case I run to grab some from the LHBS if they don't have one I have the other.

Based on the gravity: ~1.065, by my sheet I would shoot for ~250 million yeast cells, or just shy of a 2 liter starter for a 5 gallon batch. For me (11G) I would be looking at about a 4 liter starter (or 35g of my washed yeast)