Older Yeast

I have a pack of Wyeast 1099 (Whitbread) that I just bought at LHBS.....was the last one they had and I didn't have time to order online, etc....so I bought it.

Problem is it is dated April 10, 2012.

Going to use it for a Sweet Stout Saturday, 1.060 OG......1.023 FG

My concern is the age....I was planning on a 1 litre starter......

Beersmith says the viability is only 16% for this yeast with the date I enter......which puts it at 16 billion cells....and calculates a starter size required of 2.72 litres.....

Sound right to you guys....is that overkill....do you think I could get away with a 2 litre starter?

Any advice appreciated...

BTW....am I right in my understanding that a 1 litre starter is of course 1 litre of water and 1/2 cup DME???

All that I can tell you is that I used yeast that I reclaimed from a batch that was about 65 days old, kept in my fridge in a mason jar and it lagged and allowed my beer to sour. 25 gallons down the drain. I now use fresh yeast only. I would go with Beersmith and use 2.7 because I know how much it hurts to dump a beer batch...

I would start that yeast out in 500 mL of starter wort then step it up two or even three times incrementally until you get to the 2L volume (which should be fine). I have a lager going right now with a yeast that expired in Jun 2012 that I started this way and it is going great! It took about a week and a half to get my starter finished though so make sure you allow for that time before your brew day! Also don't be concerned with a long lag time when first pitched (mine took about 48hrs), with yeast that old it will have low viability and will take a while to reproduce enough to show visible signs of activity. Good luck!

So to do that....since I am new to yeast starters......with the exception of the 1 litre starter I did last week......

Tonite:
1 litre water with 1/2 cup dme, boil 15 minutes, cool to 70F, pitch yeast

Thursday (24 hours later)
Decant starter
Add another fresh batch wort (same process as tonite)

Friday (24 hours again)
Repeat thursday activity...

So I end up with a 3 litre starter......

Sound right?

I think this would be a realistic schedule:

I would start with 1/2 liter water with 1/4 dma, boil, cool and pitch.

Very likely you won't see any activity until this time Friday due to yeast age. Let it ferment out and put it in the fridge (likely Saturday eve) to crash it overnight.

If it has all settled out Sunday, decant, boil up a 2 L starter, cool and add it to your slurry.

Leave it for a few days or so to ferment out, crash it again in the fridge (likely Wednesday) when its done.

Decant (Thursday/Friday) and you are ready to pitch the slurry into your next weekends brew.

Cheers!

Crap....I posted that after the latest response.......so a no go for this weekend......

Man this stuff is toast.....pitched it in starter last night and 24 hours later now....no activity at all.....S.O.B.!!!!

Wanted to brew Saturday....so now I gotta drive an hour to a REPUTABLE HBS to get (2) packs of fresh yeast! Never going to the LHBS again.....pissed me off.....

I'm currently stepping up a starter of WLP860 with a 4/4/11 date on it. There was no activity for 2.5 days then it took off. I would give it another day or two before you throw in the towel.

Some yeast don't have a lot of activity in a starter, so it could be working and you just can't see it.

Yeah I just dont want to risk ruining a batch of beer....

I mean there is absolutely no foam when I swirl it........i.e. I assume to CO2 production...so no activity.

It may be slow to start, but that doesn't mean it's toast. And the only way to gauge starter activity is whether or not there's a band of yeast in the bottom of the vessel. Nothing else.

People have used several year old yeast with no problems, that's what starters are for. But they may be slower to get going.

OK....so this is only my second yeast starter......so still learning on this.

First starter last week was fast to get going.....yeast was dated Nov 2012.

So a yeast band would be a bunch of yeast setting on bottom of flask right? Nothing there....

So maybe I am not understanding what to look for....

Hey guys.....update on this sort of.....

I have Safale S-04 in my fridge....which I just happen to have......I think this is equivelent or same as Wyeast 1099 .....

Am I correct? Could I use that in place of the 1099??

Thanks!

mgortel said:

So maybe I am not understanding what to look for....

Click to expand...

I've posted the answer hundreds of times, go here.

The answer is patients!... lol if you wait that old yeast will start. Then just step it up. I mentioned in my first post it may take 2-3 days to show any signs of activity.

mgortel said:

Hey guys.....update on this sort of.....

I have Safale S-04 in my fridge....which I just happen to have......I think this is equivelent or same as Wyeast 1099 .....

Am I correct? Could I use that in place of the 1099??

Thanks!

Click to expand...

Yes S-04 is equivalent to 1099

Giddy up boys! This morning finally I could finally see significant yeast at bottom of flask......just threw another litre of wort on top......just took time like you said.

My concern was with it not being ready for brew day....tomorrow.....I think I will be fine now......got another 24 hours to go....

So boys and girls, the lesson here (for folks who'll read this thread three or four years from now): yes, old yeast is usually perfectly fine to use. They may, however, require some extra time and a little love to get going. Earlier this week I started a starter for some WLP007 that I harvested and put in the fridge back in April (almost nine months ago), and as we speak I've got a 1.5L starter of the stuff that's going to go into a batch tomorrow. It's all about patience, and stepping up your starter gradually. The yeast will (almost always) come back!