Brewing with Wyeast 3724 Belgian Saison

Hi all,

I just finished a keg of Saison that I brewed with Wyeast 3711 French Saison yeast. It was fantastic!

Now, I want to try the "difficult" Wyeast 3724 Belgian Saison yeast. I've read a lot about this yeast. I can control the temperature to anything required. Should I start this at 90F? Or, start at 70F or 80F and ramp up to 90F over a few weeks.

I'm a patient, but I really don't want to wait months for this to be ready.

Thanks.

I usually blend the 2, pitch at 60 and let it ramp up to 85 F in the first 2-3 days and hold until it finishes out. Works great and the 3711 makes sure I don't have to wait out the finicky 3724.

porterpounder said:

I usually blend the 2, pitch at 60 and let it ramp up to 85 F in the first 2-3 days and hold until it finishes out. Works great and the 3711 makes sure I don't have to wait out the finicky 3724.

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How about pitching 3724 first until the expected stall occurs and then pitch 3711?

My last batch using 3711 almost went down to 1.000!

IME, if you can warm it past 80 you wont get any stall. I've never had it stall even from just regular free rise. Just be sure you make a starter or pitch an adequate number of cells. I think this is the real reason this yeast is so notorious. Inadequate yeast handling

devils4ever said:

How about pitching 3724 first until the expected stall occurs and then pitch 3711?

My last batch using 3711 almost went down to 1.000!

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Go for it. I don't think it will stall if you keep it warm enough, I also like the flavor combo of the two. That strain also has the potential to take it down really low.

Like I said, I can keep the temperature at anything I want. So, should I start at 85 or 90 and maintain it?

I use this yeast strain exclusively for my saisons. I've been pitching at 80 and letting it rise on its own to 90, and holding it there til it finishes. It makes, IMHO, the best beer I've ever tasted.

I must admit that I've had it stall and take 4+ weeks to finish but sometimes it pushes through to the low single digits in under 3 weeks. You've got to be patient but it's definitely worth the effort.

BTW, If you're going big (over 1065 SG) do make a starter. In fact, I make a starter that's about 1.5 times the recommended size and save a third to use on next batch.

HTH.

I've used it a bunch and never had it stall. I start 67 for 48 hours after a big starter pitch at high Krausen. And then let it free rise to 85 and hold it until its done. For me done is 1.004.

Wyeast website says "This strain is notorious for a rapid and vigorous start to fermentation, only to stick around 1.035 S.G. Fermentation will finish, given time and warm temperatures. Warm fermentation temperatures, at least 90°F (32°C), or the use of a secondary strain can accelerate attenuation."

They mean it too. Pitch in the 70s or 80s and ramp it up to the 90s then leave it there. It'll chug along happily til it's done. I do this one in the garage during summer in Texas, and it comes out great. Probably hits 100 at some points. I love this yeast

This is by far my favorite saison strain. It may be slow to finish, but keep it warm, pitch enough cells, oxygenate your wort and enjoy. It is notorious for a reason; it's worth the hassle.

I used this for the first time a few weeks back and had terrific results. I consulted with my home brew club and here is all of the advice I got and followed. Netted me a first in saisons at a recent competition

1. Use a starter
2. Start at 68F for the first 3 days.
3. Increase the temp 2F each day until you get to 90F then hold until fermentation is complete
4. Keep the temperature stable or increasing as even slight drops in temp can cause the stall
5. No air lock. Lightly cover the air lock hole with sanitized foil instead to reduce pressure on the yeast.
6. Be patient with it.

I brewed my Saison yesterday with a SG = 1.058. I didn't have time to make a starter since I bought the ingredients on Friday afternoon and brewed early Saturday morning.

I was a little concerned that the yeast wasn't active in the smack pack because it didn't puff up like it usually does after 5-6 hours at room temperature. But, this morning the carboy is chugging away nicely. I have the temperature set to 81F. I'll ramp the temperature to 85F in the next day or two based on activity. Then, I think I'll let it sit at 90F until done.

Now, the wait begins.......

Brewed one recently with 3724. Finished in 8 days. I read online to remove the airlock and replace with sanitized foil. Worked great. Unfortunately, the beer is too sweet for my liking at this point (added too much candi sugar) so I'm going to let it age in the keg for a few months.

Are you sure it's done? 8 days isn't very long and candi sugar shouldn't leave a sweet taste, only dryness. How much candi sugar and what was your FG?

I let it sit for a month before kegging and the FG never changed.

Used 1lb candy sugar.

Projectfdw said:

Brewed one recently with 3724. Finished in 8 days. I read online to remove the airlock and replace with sanitized foil. Worked great. Unfortunately, the beer is too sweet for my liking at this point (added too much candi sugar) so I'm going to let it age in the keg for a few months.

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Why remove the airlock? I haven't seen this. Do you want to get air into the fermentation?

I have the temperature ramped to 90F now. It's been constantly bubbling along nicely. I was going to replace the blowoff tube with airlock tonight, but now I'm not sure. (I really never needed the blowoff tube since the fermentation never went crazy.)

Projectfdw said:

Unfortunately, the beer is too sweet for my liking at this point (added too much candi sugar) so I'm going to let it age in the keg for a few months.

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No, candi sugar won't make your beer sweet, in fact it would be one of the first sugars consumed (assuming you put it in the boil) by the yeast. If your saison is sweet, it most likely has not finished fully fermenting. What was OG and FG? Thankfully, the keg will allow fermentation to proceed with the pressure relief valve (assuming there is one) will bleed off excess pressure from continuing fermentation.

Og was 1.060. Fg was 1.008. I'm not in a huge rush so I can let it evolve in the keg for a while.


As for the foil- google maltose falcons and 3724 and you can find the article.

Projectfdw said:

Og was 1.060. Fg was 1.008. I'm not in a huge rush so I can let it evolve in the keg for a while.

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I would say that 1.008 is a little on the high side for a saison, but not outrageously so.

That's an interesting link there about the effects of back pressure on the yeast.

bucketnative said:

I would say that 1.008 is a little on the high side for a saison, but not outrageously so.



That's an interesting link there about the effects of back pressure on the yeast.

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That's 86% attenuation the range is up to 80 so I thought it was good. Like I said... I'll let it ride Won't hesitate to use 3724 again.

1.008 isn't too bad. It may have gone a bit further but depends on your culture. I used some D90 in a saison and felt like the caramel/dark fruit flavor clashed with the saison esters. I could see it being perceived as sweet.

Okay, it's been 3 weeks and my gravity is at 1.022. It's only dropped 3-4 points in the last week. So, I'm thinking it's stuck. I really need to get this baby kegged so I can brew a few more batches before winter.

I've had the temperature at 92F for over a week and a half. Raise it to 95F?

I'm thinking of adding Nottingham or Wyeast 3711 to finish it. Thoughts?

It will finish on its own, but will take a while. If you really need to finish quickly, make a starter of 3711 and pitch at high krausen.

Okay, as of today, the gravity is down to 1.019. Where do you think this will finish? Wyeast claims an attenuation of 76% to 80%. So, it should finish around 1.014?

I'm thinking of kegging this baby next weekend regardless of where it's at!

Update: I kegged my Saison this weekend. The FG=1.006! It dropped from 1.019 to 1.006 in less than a week. Amazing!

I still can't understand why/how it did this.

I've got a smack pack of this in my fridge just waiting to be used. I've also got a vial of Yeast Bay Brussels Brett that I'm going to give it. My first experiment with brett.

I'm probably going to ferment with this in my plastic bucket with brew belt and inkbird for a couple of weeks, then rack to my glass carbouy for a while with the brett. I don't have any way of cooling it for the first few days, so I assume letting it ride from the word go won't be a big problem?

You should try to avoid having it drop once you pitch the yeast. That can cause the stall. Although the Brett will take care of the rest, so not a big concern.

I'm hoping to not leave the brett too much to do, because I want to get on with a full on sour. I know it won't be quick, but I'd rather it only had a couple of points to chew through than ten.

What I plan to do is set the thermostat on my inkbird to slightly below what I pitch the yeast at, then keep an eye on it, upping the thermostat to just below the temperature of the fermenting beer as it heats up, and then not reducing it until it's done.

If you pitch cool (60's) and ramp it up steadily to about 80F over a week with no airlock (just foil) the beer will never stall and will be done in about 7 days.

This talk of pitching and fermenting at 90-100F is just ludicrous and produces a "dirty" tasting Saison. Judge one large BJCP competition at the Saison table and you'll immediately know what I mean.

I brewed this saison yesterday, cooled in the bath to 25°C (77°F) and pitched. Without really thinking, I left it in the bath overnight and it dropped to 18°C (64°F), which is a bit of a bugger. This morning I attached it to my heat belt currently set at about 20.5°C, which I'll raise slowly over the next few days. I hope I've not ruined it by letting it drop straight after pitching. I'll make sure it doesn't drop at all in the FV.

EDIT: I made a roughly 1 litre starter, for about 18 hours, then put it in the fridge to settle and poured off the excess, then brought it back up to room temperature before pitching. There's about 13 litres in the FV, and the OG is 1057.

Well it seems to be doing fine after a week. I've been increasing the temperature by about a degree centigrade a day, and it's 26.5ºC at the moment (80ºF). I've taken a gravity reading and it's 1016. I'm going to leave it another week before racking it to my secondary fermenter with brett, and I'll hopefully bottle anything that doesn't fit in my glass carbouy.

tagz said:

It will finish on its own, but will take a while. If you really need to finish quickly, make a starter of 3711 and pitch at high krausen.

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What does it mean to "pitch at high krausen"? Does that just mean to pitch the starter when its at peak fermentation (i.e. lots of krausen) instead of letting it finish out? I usually make my starters a few days in advance so any potential issues if I crash it in the fridge at high krausen and use it a few days later? Thanks.