Non GMO alternatives to corn sugar for bottling?

Hey all:

As the title says, that's what I'm looking for. The huge majority of corn and processed products derived from corn in the U.S. come from genetically modified corn, and I'm hoping to find something else. Really don't like GMO.

Any alternatives?

Thanks!

Table sugar
Honey
DME

Plain old table sugar, either cane or beet, works just fine for priming. Check out the priming and bottling section in the first chapter of Palmer's www.howtobrew.com for more info and quantities.

Edit: What she said ^

That's a good question. Organic corn sugar I couldn't find much of anything of. I've tried Woodstock Farms organic cane sugar, that stuff is interesting. At least in my kombucha second ferments it imparts a buttery, toffee like taste that is amazing and unlike any other cane sugar I've tried.

GMO corn in the corn sugar? ****! Have you heard that beer has dihydrogen monoxide in it too? That stuff kills thousands of people in the US each year. Maybe don't drink beer, it's too dangerous.

KingBrianI said:

GMO corn in the corn sugar? ****! Have you heard that beer has dihydrogen monoxide in it too? That stuff kills thousands of people in the US each year. Maybe don't drink beer, it's too dangerous.

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The OP isn't telling you or me not to use corn sugar or other GMO foods. His choice, nothing more. No need to bust his chops because he asked a question.

Well com'n that's a weak response at best; homebrew properly prepared is infinitely more nourishing and beneficial than commercial brew, and the 'throw caution to the wind and don't give a rat's a*# about what's in your homebrew because it contain some other compound that is harmful' is no good. Ok so start sniffing arsenic dust then, who cares right? Your homebrew contains dihydrogen monoxide after all! Dang it took me a while to get that, dihydrogen monoxide, that is pretty clever, I see that in many things.

There is organic dextrose,may not be easy to find. Ive been reading up on the way dextrose is made and I dont really care for it.It is deemed unhealty in my regimine,its not a good sugar to consume(as most isnt anyway) although it may be different since the yeast do its way with it, as far as like a healthfull benefical drink like kombucha,well you can use regular-white(bleached)processed cane(gmo-beet sugar)-sugar which is one of the worst foods for you ever but that is turned into something life-giving not life stripping,which is an ironic amazing thing. Alough I still only buy raw organic cane sugar to make it and bottle beer. I vote with my dollar and dont try to buy unresposibly farmed,unhealthfull food like stuff. Im not a snob,I just try not to be a fool. And why are health and enviornmentally conscience people referred to as Hippies?
.So, well what good is drinking too much?,but we all arnt perfect,but when I can.. I try.

The small amount used to prime gets totally eaten by the yeast. So there is no sugar left. A corn sugar molecule is the same whether it's organic or not. It makes no difference all the yeast know is that it's sugar. It's a refined product you aren't ingesting gmo corn.

JRems said:

The small amount used to prime gets totally eaten by the yeast. So there is no sugar left. A corn sugar molecule is the same whether it's organic or not. It makes no difference all the yeast know is that it's sugar. It's a refined product you aren't ingesting gmo corn.

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Good Point. If there is accountable health-science to this I would almost really trust that.But maybe with some trustable science-"Opinion" not fact (which there will never be fact). It can go beyond that also like with.. maybe Principle as far as gmo. So has gmo/non gmo sugar been tested on rats?Long term? GMO foods (Over 70% of whats on the shelves by the way) thank Mon$anto for that ,just went straight to testing on live everyday humans without long term studys first.Thanks to lobbyist and generall greed.

While I may not see the need to avoid GMO corn products I have to respect the OPs wish. Everyone of us has something or somethings we try to avoid to "better our lives" whether they do or not.

I've taken to priming with gyle. I've found the bottles carb faster and taste better. And what could be better than using the same malt & hop bill as the original beer? simply save a quart or so ( there are online calculators for exact cO2 volumes ) from your brew day & boil that up on bottling day. I don't bother computing a boil off rate; I figure the corresponding bump in gravity will account for any loss.

logdrum said:

I've taken to priming with gyle. I've found the bottles carb faster and taste better. And what could be better than using the same malt & hop bill as the original beer? simply save a quart or so ( there are online calculators for exact cO2 volumes ) from your brew day & boil that up on bottling day. I don't bother computing a boil off rate; I figure the corresponding bump in gravity will account for any loss.

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I always wanted to do this,but I thought that lactic acid starts eating at it with time? Your talking about just pulling out some wort,then refrigerating right? This could be a good way to reused your hydro samples,also?

I whirlpool with a plate chiller, then pull the first half gallon or so out in an effort to isolate any cold break trapped in the chiller or lines. I'll let this settle & store it in sanitized mason jars in the fridge. My fermentations are almost always done in a week ( often less than that ) so I'm not too worried about nasties. I mean, it was just boiled for an hour & I'll reboil before use so...

I wouldn't reuse hydro samples-other than drinking them

logdrum said:

I wouldn't reuse hydro samples-other than drinking them

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Especially considering the sugars are already consumed

I was implying like how if some people chill there wort overnight instead of quickly,they have chances of dealing with this. Im pretty shure lactic acid or whatever eats the sugar over time,same reason why you shouldnt cool your wort for days before pitching? Guess Im a little misunderstood about the nature of using storing wort.Plus I have no idea how much to use.

KingBrianI said:

GMO corn in the corn sugar? ****! Have you heard that beer has dihydrogen monoxide in it too? That stuff kills thousands of people in the US each year. Maybe don't drink beer, it's too dangerous.

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Don't be a vinegar and water bag.

jonmohno said:

I was implying like how if some people chill there wort overnight instead of quickly,they have chances of dealing with this. Im pretty shure lactic acid or whatever eats the sugar over time,same reason why you shouldnt cool your wort for days before pitching? Guess Im a little misunderstood about the nature of using storing wort.Plus I have no idea how much to use.

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I've never heard that about lactic acid. As to the amount to use, my brewing software has a built in calculator that allows me to adjust bottling volumes & cO2 volumes while taking into account wort gravity and FG. There are a couple such calculators on line. It's really not much different than using DME.

Hasn't virtually all brewing yeast been technically "genetically modified" through selective breeding, to create specific beer-friendly strains? What's the difference?

kombat said:

Hasn't virtually all brewing yeast been technically "genetically modified" through selective breeding, to create specific beer-friendly strains? What's the difference?

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The same can probably be said for brewing barley, it's very different and has been modified much since it was hundreds of years ago.

kombat said:

Hasn't virtually all brewing yeast been technically "genetically modified" through selective breeding, to create specific beer-friendly strains? What's the difference?

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That may be true but it is not genetically modified in the sense of man or Monsanto messing with the organism's genes/DNA like in is conventionally called GMO. The difference is those yeasts would never had let's say a gene from scorpion venom spliced into them for example (I believe this done with a type of GMO cabbage.)

porcupine73 said:

That may be true but it is not genetically modified in the sense of man or Monsanto messing with the organism's genes/DNA like in is conventionally called GMO. The difference is those yeasts would never had let's say a gene from scorpion venom spliced into them for example (I believe this done with a type of GMO cabbage.)

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I confess, my comment was a little tongue-in-cheek. I personally feel the hysteria surrounding GMO foods is based on money and ignorance. I believe "organic" and conventional farmers have a vested financial interested in convincing the public to shun superior GMO products, because they cannot compete with a superior, yet cheaper, product. So they've come up with an effective compaign of fear, coining such creative terms as "Frankenfoods" in order to scare the flock back to their low-yield, high-cost, bug-ridden crops.

The "ignorance" part is based on people not really having a clue what "GMO" really means. It relies on using scary-sounding hyperbole (like your example of splicing a scorpion venom gene into cabbage, the implication being that your cabbage is now poisonous) to mislead people. It's like saying carbon dioxide is poisonous, because it only only differs from carbon monoxide by a single atom. Of course, they're completely different, and it's not nearly so simplistic. Nor is genetics, but that doesn't stop lobby groups and vested interests from preying on peoples' fear and ignorance in an effort to get them to continue to pay more for inferior products, and resist embracing scientific advancement (which could require investing in new equipment, seed strains, or training).

Personally, knowing how many people on this planet go hungry every day, I strongly feel that anything we can do to improve crop yield is worth investigating. To date, not one single person anywhere on the planet has ever been killed, or even made sick, by any GMO food. Yet over 20,000 people will starve to death today. 20,000 real people, every day, starve to death, while people shun GMO foods for no reason other than fear and marketing.

Just my opinion, you are of course entitled to yours.

porcupine73 said:

The difference is those yeasts would never had let's say a gene from scorpion venom spliced into them for example (I believe this done with a type of GMO cabbage.)

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This is what drives me crazy when people start talking about GMOs. The people who have a problem with them don't know what the hell they are talking about. Scorpion venom doesn't have DNA. Scorpions have DNA. And the DNA in a scorpion's venom glands is the same DNA that's in his eyes and @$$hole. Without a basic knowledge of science, genetics, and biology, these people are basing their opinions on bits of what they hear or read from organic hippy organizations who themselves don't base their statements on good science.

A reminder:

This is the appropriate forum for asking questions and having discussion about brewing ingredients, including the OP's question about what non-GMO sugars can be used for priming and where he can find them.

This is not the appropriate forum for debate on the merits of GMO foods generally, including bashing the OP for asking the question. That conversation belongs in the Debate Forum. Take it there, please.

I'm going to try priming with maple syrup in my next batch. I'd also like to try to stay with from non-gmo products because even if the yeast consumes it like posters are saying, the GMO companies are still getting my $$$.

Northern Brewer has a PDF about alternative sugars ( http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/AdvancedBottleConditioning.pdf ) .

I'm finding it curious that people are getting angry rather than ignoring you. It's an internet phenomenon that is rather ... interesting. People have asked about non-cornsugar bottling alternatives before on here (that's how I found the PDF) and forumites were very helpful. But once you mention "non-GMO"....


XKCD

... removing original text just saw the this is not a debate thread note.

Thanks for the alternatives, everyone.

And, for the record and not to extend an inappropriate debate that was never intended, I am a levelheaded and balanced person who has spent 15 years as a newspaper reporter, editor and photographer (including winning a Pulitzer Prize) investigating all facets of the issues I covered. I have researched GMOs and organic foods deeply, as well as their pesticide/herbicide ramifications, before reaching any conclusions. Meh, no need for anyone to get all heated up over the Interwebs.

I like the idea of honey, one of nature's basic sweeteners. I knew that regular cane or beet sugars were viable options, and have wondered about brown sugar. Do various forms of sugar impart different flavors on the final product (especially brown sugar and honey), or is sugar sugar? That question is one I hoped to have answered in this thread, and if someone else already has answered it, sorry I missed it.

Thanks again.

ElyIrishBrew said:

Thanks for the alternatives, everyone.

And, for the record and not to extend an inappropriate debate that was never intended, I am a levelheaded and balanced person who has spent 15 years as a newspaper reporter, editor and photographer (including winning a Pulitzer Prize) investigating all facets of the issues I covered. I have researched GMOs and organic foods deeply, as well as their pesticide/herbicide ramifications, before reaching any conclusions. Meh, no need for anyone to get all heated up over the Interwebs.

I like the idea of honey, one of nature's basic sweeteners. I knew that regular cane or beet sugars were viable options, and have wondered about brown sugar. Do various forms of sugar impart different flavors on the final product (especially brown sugar and honey), or is sugar sugar? That question is one I hoped to have answered in this thread, and if someone else already has answered it, sorry I missed it.

Thanks again.

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different sugars will impart different flavors..

Maple syrup primed beers can be delicious for the right style and if you are into that sort of thing.

The short answer is that there are many alternatives...my long answer would need to be in a different forum. So until this thread gets moved, which It may, I'll leave my answer at that.

OP if you are going to use honey, find a local source. and I mean local. We are importing honey from China and it sometimes has addatives. This usually ends up in finished product (honey buns, honey nut cerreals etc) but some of it ends up in little honey filled bears.

I'm lucky there is a place near me that gets its honey local and you can buy it by the pound. A local orchard would have some.

I've got some kombucha second fermenting right now where I used sucanat in a few bottles and malt syrup in a few bottles to see how those taste. I imagine whatever flavors they impart would be similar in alcoholic brew so it will be interesting to see. Honey could work in a second ferment, I'm not sure, the honey 'bite' always seems a bit strong to me unless it is aged a really long time.

I'm happy to see this thread moved to a more appropriate forum for the sugar/bottling discussion. Still learning my way around here.

As for honey, I can get that produced with no additives through a couple local sources. Aside from growing my own stuff, I like to get what produce/food I don't have as locally as possible

I found a local honey source also, he's a good guy, he was telling me about the supermarket honey often having colorings, corn syrups, and other tricks done to it to keep it as consistent as possible from batch to batch. He mentioned much of that honey is being funneled through other countries that don't actually produce it after Europe banned honey imports from some areas.

We can always simply start a new thread in the debate section I suppose to discuss GMO vs. non GMO.

porcupine73 said:

We can always simply start a new thread in the debate section I suppose to discuss GMO vs. non GMO.

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There's no debate for me. I was saying I'm fine with moving this thread into a more appropriate place based on the sugar/bottling question asked in the original thread. I'm not interested in hearing what others think about GMOs, but I DO want to know about the differences in flavor imparted by different sugars.

nm

ElyIrishBrew said:

I'm not interested in hearing what others think about GMOs, but I DO want to know about the differences in flavor imparted by different sugars.

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Ah ok I'm with you on the latter part. I avoid GMO's as much as possible. I was looking for organic corn sugar before but I wasn't finding much. I thought I saw some from Bob's Red Mill but now I can't find it.

Oraganic cane sugars I've tried such as Native biodynamic, Florida Crystals, Wholesome Sweeteners and a few others don't really seem to impart much taste, except as noted the Woodstock Farms gives a wonderful buttery toffee taste. I have many others to try like rapunzel, maple syrup, molasses, dark brown etc. though it would be many weeks before I'd know the results.