baker's yeast

Hello all,
I was brewing Friday and accidentally killed my yeast starter.
So in a pinch, I used some of my wife's baker's yeast for a new one rather than risk an infection and loose everything.
When I filled the cooled wort and yeast into my 5 gal carboy, it was nearly 18L.
To avoid excessive blowoff, Saturday at 7 AM, I decided to put the loaded carboy in my fridge to cool off and then let it warm slowly. To my surprise the fermentation went off like a shot - not too much blowoff - but really going well by Sat PM.
Now it's Wednesday and it is still bubbling away - but why?
I thought lager yeast were specialized for the low temps. My wife's bread does not rise unless the dough is warm, so how is it working so at 40F?
I have never made a lager before but I am tempted to leave it in the frig until the fermentation stops ( I guess I will have to do the diacetal rest stuff too). The style - kind of like a stout, but you tell me: 10 lbs Muntons 2-row American style, 1 lbs Muntons Chocolate, 2 oz. Nugget hops 1 hr, cooled in my sink with water changes over night (covered from the start of course).

Thanks for any comments or advice.
John

Bread yeasts can function at low temperatures. It's not unusual for a shop to put their dough in the walk-in cooler to work. It's all about time and availability of sugars. In dough, there isn't much sugar, so the yeast either need warmer temperatures or a long time (my pizza guy makes dough every 3-4 days). Your ale has lots of sugar that is easy to get to and the yeast can move around.

I have some doubts able the ability of a bread yeast to handle much of an ABV, you might need a packet of Cooper's to finish it. Can't address flavor, though a stout-like ale should be ok.

david_42 said:

Bread yeasts can function at low temperatures. It's not unusual for a shop to put their dough in the walk-in cooler to work.

Click to expand...

My sourdoughs spend most of thier time fermenting in the fridge. For bread, at any rate, the slower the better.

I want to hear how this comes out. Interesting accidental experiment.

And I wanna know how ya managed to kill your starter so well


mikey

how did I kill my starter?
well I has saved some yeast cake from my last brew in a "Grolsch" bottle in the fridge. It was there since ~Feb. I had been checking it periodically and letting off the CO2 but not feeding it since it was a Coopers Ale yeast and I figured it didn't need it - maybe the start of my problem?
So Friday morning I took it out to let it warming up before I fed it (corn syrup) and I noticed it had a odd smell and was very effervescent (never before) so much that I couldn't decant off the supernatant liquor from the cake. When it reached room temp a few hours later and I poured the whole mixture into the corn syrup solution - wow! that stinks was my thoughts, but maybe it will be OK was my hope.

Well it never took off - it just sat there all churned up no settling or foaming. the next day there was a little activity but it didn't look right and it was too late. when I fed it to my septic tank, again, it smelled weird - not the appealing yeasty or biting CO2 smells - more like poop.

I figured that the yeast were hungry and somehow set off an autolysis?

john

bakers yeast is unsuitable for brewing. It is not produced in a sanitary fashion (why should it, since you will be using a lot of it when you bake and you don't sterilize the other ingredients either). It will also give you lots of off-flavors since it has not been selected for it clean fermentation.

It should also be able to metabolize starches and dextrines as it produces the necessary enzymes (Amlylases).

You should have let the wort sit w/o pitching yeast and gotten a package of dry yeast. But that is water under the bridge now. I'm certainly curious if this will end up in a drinkable product and if "lagering" can actually salvage this brew.

BTW, its still bubbling since the yeast is not done yet. There are lots of carbohydrates, that the yeast can metabolize before the alc will kill it.

Kai

I keep a pack of dry yeast in my fridge in case I'm ever in a pinch. I figure that if I'm brewing on Sunday and something goes wrong with my yeast, I can make a starter with the dry pack and pitch without having to wait until Tuesday (since HBS is closed on Monday).

that's what I used to do - but then there was a previous need without the subsequent replacement....

johnoswald said:

how did I kill my starter?
well I has saved some yeast cake from my last brew in a "Grolsch" bottle in the fridge. It was there since ~Feb. I had been checking it periodically and letting off the CO2 but not feeding it since it was a Coopers Ale yeast and I figured it didn't need it - maybe the start of my problem?
So Friday morning I took it out to let it warming up before I fed it (corn syrup) and I noticed it had a odd smell and was very effervescent (never before) so much that I couldn't decant off the supernatant liquor from the cake. When it reached room temp a few hours later and I poured the whole mixture into the corn syrup solution - wow! that stinks was my thoughts, but maybe it will be OK was my hope.

Well it never took off - it just sat there all churned up no settling or foaming. the next day there was a little activity but it didn't look right and it was too late. when I fed it to my septic tank, again, it smelled weird - not the appealing yeasty or biting CO2 smells - more like poop.

I figured that the yeast were hungry and somehow set off an autolysis?

john

Click to expand...

Hey John,
From what I've read, you should use the yeast cake within 3 weeks... a month at the outside (though I've seen longer if stored properly)... if you plan to keep it longer, I'd suggest you working it into another starter... also keeping the yeast in a sealed bottle isn't really a good idea either, truth be told... unless fermentation is absolutely 100% done, you can make a bottle bomb...

As to your yeast, my guess is that it got contaminated with something nasty from the fridge (one of the worst places in the house for bacterial contamination) during one of the times when you "burped" the bottle, if there was anything on the lip, it could get in and give the oder you are discribing...

Google yeast harvesting and/or storage to get some other ideas... here's one I found but haven't tried yet:

http://www.hogtownbrewers.org/news/2002may/yeast.html

remember, sanitary measures are the real key to reusing yeast!!!

luck with the bread beer and let us know how it tastes

mikey

Years ago before I knew about brewers yeast I used bread yeast to brew K&K brews. They made beer, although it was yeasty beer. Now bakers yeast is used to make my pizza dough and the dough is fermented in the fridge for at least one day before using.
I now always have plenty of dry yeast to pitch in case my liquid yeast starters don't take off.

Bumping this because I need help.

My Cream Ale kit didnt come with the yeast packet... sad. I already started the brew. I got some bread yeast to take the place. I called my brew store and they said they will give me a whole new kit.

I have enough carboys and kegs and free space to deal with the extra batch so I am planning on keeping it.

My Q:

Should I get the store to give me an extra yeast packet and add it to my wort tomorrow? After I have already added bakers yeast? Or can the wort wait until tomorrow around 5 pm(22hrs)?

I wouldn't add the bread yeast. I'd be extra sanitary, and just make sure to cool the wort and keep it in a sanitized covered container until the ale yeast can be added.

So if I put the wort in a 65 degree walk in cooler tonight covered, it will be fine until I can get back to it?

Better than it would be with bread yeast.

Right. I mean, it'd be better to have it at fridge temps, but if not, at least cool is better than warm.