Cooling Wort

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Benny Blanco

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I was at the grocery store and I bought a gallon container of spring water when I got an idea.

Now, I'm new to brewing so this may already be a well known method, but I haven't read about it in these forums thus far. What's to stop me from freezing an entire gallon of water in the container and adding it to the primary? I was planning on taking the gallon of ice out of the container and putting it in the bucket, then pouring the hot (or semi-cooled in ice bath) 3 gallons of wort on top of it. I can then fill the rest of it to equal 5 gallons and see how much the ice drops the temp.

Any objections?
 
Wouldn't that bring it down too much? I thought you wanted to take your gravity reading at around 70 degrees... my .02
 
I've actually read about it in other websites. If you do it this way there are two major items to keep in mind.
1. You're diluting the wort with the water so make sure the wort is 'concentrated'.
2. Since you're adding a one gallon ice block, calculate it so your final volume is the desired final volume.
 
I do a 2 gallon Boil and pour it over a 1 gallon block of ice. That leaves 2 gallons that you can add at what ever temperature you need to bring it to the required temp...Works great:)
 
I would make sure to have previously boiled the water for the ice block to be sure you keep it sanitary. Before I started full boils I had problems with off flavors
 
The gallon jug that I'm going to freeze is distilled water. I don't think I have to boil it.


Any suggestions on how low I should lower my wort temp before I pour it on the ice?
 
My first batch, i put all 3 gallons of water in the freezer. Man. it went to 65 in no time. I used regular springwater. I'm not sure i'd recomend it. I saw it in a Sam Adams video.
 
Benny Blanco said:
The gallon jug that I'm going to freeze is distilled water. I don't think I have to boil it.


Any suggestions on how low I should lower my wort temp before I pour it on the ice?

I'm not completely sure on this, but isn't it recommended to use spring water over distilled?
 
Mr Nick said:
Properly boiled water is as close to pure water as a home brewer can get.
No, boiled tap water or spring water still contains far more dissolved solids than distilled water. Sure, you can boil the chlorine, oxygen, and some carbonates out of the water, but it's still going to have some mineral content.

There is a valid debate over the use of spring water vs distilled water in extract brewing. Extract retains some (if not all) of the mineral content of the water used in making it. So, some argue that using spring water in an extract brew is harmful because it adds too much mineral content. However, you really don't need to go to the expense of using distilled water in most cases. If the water tastes good, brew with it!
 
Yuri_Rage said:
No, boiled tap water or spring water still contains far more dissolved solids than distilled water. Sure, you can boil the chlorine, oxygen, and some carbonates out of the water, but it's still going to have some mineral content.

It takes seven miles of creek to fully treat water. So it would depend on what part of the creek, spring etc. you would be taking the water from, as to how healthy it would be.

Not all bottled water tastes the same, So how can it be distilled. I don't think many Home Brewers would go to the expense of purchasing distilled water. So my opinion is that boiling is probably as close as most of us would get.
 
Have you ever tasted distilled water, it doesn't taste good. In fact it doesn't taste like water because water does have a taste from the minerals.

This taste will be lacking from your brew if you use distilled water.
 
Distilled water is cheap though, if your buying water. .33/gal at wallyworld I think.
 
I was just responding to someone saying distilled water is expensive. IME, it's pretty inexpensive.

Personally I use my tap water, tastes great.
 
z987k said:
I was just responding to someone saying distilled water is expensive.

Distilled water here in AZ is usually double the price of spring/drinking water. Spring/drinking water in gallon jugs at the store starts from 5 for $3 to a $1.75. You can always get 25¢ per gallon at one of the outside machines but I don't really trust their cleaning routines.

I put 3 sanitized 1-gallon jugs in the freezer right before starting my steep. After bringing my wort down to 100°F in a sink bath, I'll pull the jugs out and pour them from 7' into the fermenter to aerate then I add the wort. The jugs will have just begun to form ice on the inside of the plastic. A little "massage of the jugs" hehe, will break up the ice enough to pour out. Your wort temp will drop between 60° and 75°F in seconds.

Wild
 
This has nothing to do with the thread but I just noticed your screen name "Benny Blanco.":D

I love that and use it all the time. "Benny Blanco from the Bronx!" It sometimes goes right over peoples heads.
 
If you are going to use a full gallon in the original container and then freeze it solid, it will expand, blow up the container, and there goes your sanitation.
 
Bernie Brewer said:
If you are going to use a full gallon in the original container and then freeze it solid, it will expand, blow up the container, and there goes your sanitation.
When I do it, there's barely any ice formed in the jug. But if the water comes in the average plastic jug, it shouldn't burst. They normally have 3" dimples on the sides that'll expand outward when the ice expands.

Wild
 
Mr Nick said:
It takes seven miles of creek to fully treat water. So it would depend on what part of the creek, spring etc. you would be taking the water from, as to how healthy it would be.
What?
Mr Nick said:
Not all bottled water tastes the same, So how can it be distilled. I don't think many Home Brewers would go to the expense of purchasing distilled water. So my opinion is that boiling is probably as close as most of us would get.
I never insinuated that all bottled water is distilled. In fact, most bottled water is spring water, and most of it tastes pretty good.

Boiling tap or spring water does virtually nothing to change its mineral composition. Distilling water removes ALL mineral content. They are COMPLETELY different, hence the debate with extract brewers.

I'm really not sure where you're going with this...
 
I've done the calculations by the way and you'd need to add 2.2 gallons of ice to 2.8 gallons of 212F wort to reach 70F equillibrium. Of course, this only works in a bucket primary on partial boil extract batches.
 
Ive used ice a few times to cool my wort and its worked well.. but I do have a question to throw out. My local beer supplies place always says NEVER use ice to cool the wort because it can harbor bacteria that can spoil the batch. Ive watched a couple shows that use the ice method (including Alton Brown on the food channel who filled his bucket a third with ice and then poured the wort over it). Normally I do full boils and use a copper wort chiller to do my cooling but the ice method is much faster.. so what is the general consensus here on using ice?
 
Yuri_Rage said:
What?

I never insinuated that all bottled water is distilled. In fact, most bottled water is spring water, and most of it tastes pretty good.

Boiling tap or spring water does virtually nothing to change its mineral composition. Distilling water removes ALL mineral content. They are COMPLETELY different, hence the debate with extract brewers.

I'm really not sure where you're going with this...

I think he's assuming that by "spring water," you meant water that you are literally collecting, yourself, from a spring. Not spring water that we buy at the store.
 
Yeah, Brewno, this is my real nickname :)

Thanks for the input guys. I think I'm just going to start out with the frozen gallon and a quick ice bath.
 
Not to mention if anyone is using out of the creek spring water, I would highly recommend it at least gets filtered before use.

I've used Distilled water with success, and I plan on continuing to use it as my local water tastes like stagnant pool water. I cringe to think how long it would take to run 5 gallons through my Britta water filter....
 
Green Tarp said:
Ive used ice a few times to cool my wort and its worked well.. but I do have a question to throw out. My local beer supplies place always says NEVER use ice to cool the wort because it can harbor bacteria that can spoil the batch. Ive watched a couple shows that use the ice method (including Alton Brown on the food channel who filled his bucket a third with ice and then poured the wort over it). Normally I do full boils and use a copper wort chiller to do my cooling but the ice method is much faster.. so what is the general consensus here on using ice?

I would think ice would be fine ONLY if you sanitize it yourself (boil it) and then freeze it in an air tight container. Buying ice like Alton did is just way too risky, and I personally wouldn't just assume that anything in a bottle is sterile. Come on, it costs what, $.64/gal? Don't you think that's making a HUGE leap of faith?
 
Yuri_Rage said:
What?

I never insinuated that all bottled water is distilled. In fact, most bottled water is spring water, and most of it tastes pretty good.

Boiling tap or spring water does virtually nothing to change its mineral composition. Distilling water removes ALL mineral content. They are COMPLETELY different, hence the debate with extract brewers.

I'm really not sure where you're going with this...
First I am not disputing the mineral content of water.

As to your "what" question...All creeks/springs are fed from lakes that consists of some polluted water caused by the life that lives in them. It takes seven miles of creek to get rid of that pollution.

As to where I going with this....The answer is no where....That information is not for you. That information is for the newbie who might have read the previous posts (prior to my last post) and decide to run down to the creek to get their water.

RAHAHB I never said you insinuated that all bottled water is distilled.:mug:

EDIT: Also the bottled spring water that does not taste so good causes me wonder just how close to the lake they bottled their water?
 
LOL.....

I've never seen creek water for sale. If I did I don't think I'd buy it.
Most spring water I know of is from rain water the filters through rock over many years not lakes.
 
orfy said:
LOL.....

I've never seen creek water for sale. If I did I don't think I'd buy it.
Most spring water I know of is from rain water the filters through rock over many years not lakes.

I suppose one could go on and on here...but assuming you are correct...how many people have that information at their disposal? Also every city has access to one of those springs....real close....right? Every city sells bottled water so that must be true? Where else could they get it and sell it for $2.00 for five gallons?

This rain water that filters through rocks, first needs to collect somewhere before it filters through the rocks. Also rain water helps to clean the air by absorbing some of the pollutants that we help create. And when water is treated (via bacteria) as happens when polluted water is directed through or over Rocks The nitrogen is converted into another substance that algae thrive on which also aids in the purification process. Sun light and air are also necessary.

I know the source where one of the local companies gets their bottled water that they sell in 5 gallon bottles, and I suggest to you that you may not know what you are buying:(
 
so do the fish and other animals that live in the creek swim 7 miles up stream to **** and pee in the lake? I wouldnt drink anything out of a creek that wasnt treated, no matter how many miles it was from "the lake".
 
http://www.nrdc.org/water/drinking/nbw.asp

Bottled Water: Pure Drink or Pure Hype?
While bottled water marketing conveys images of purity, inadequate regulations offer no assurance.
[En Español]

Sales of bottled water in this country have exploded in recent years, largely as a result of a public perception of purity driven by advertisements and packaging labels featuring pristine glaciers and crystal-clear mountain springs. But bottled water sold in the United States is not necessarily cleaner or safer than most tap water, according to a four-year scientific study recently made public by NRDC.

NRDC's study included testing of more than 1,000 bottles of 103 brands of bottled water. While most of the tested waters were found to be of high quality, some brands were contaminated: about one-third of the waters tested contained levels of contamination -- including synthetic organic chemicals, bacteria, and arsenic -- in at least one sample that exceeded allowable limits under either state or bottled water industry standards or guidelines.

A key NRDC finding is that bottled water regulations are inadequate to assure consumers of either purity or safety, although both the federal government and the states have bottled water safety programs. At the national level, the Food and Drug Administration is responsible for bottled water safety, but the FDA's rules completely exempt waters that are packaged and sold within the same state, which account for between 60 and 70 percent of all bottled water sold in the United States (roughly one out of five states don't regulate these waters either). The FDA also exempts carbonated water and seltzer, and fewer than half of the states require carbonated waters to meet their own bottled water standards.

Even when bottled waters are covered by the FDA's rules, they are subject to less rigorous testing and purity standards than those which apply to city tap water (see chart below). For example, bottled water is required to be tested less frequently than city tap water for bacteria and chemical contaminants. In addition, bottled water rules allow for some contamination by E. coli or fecal coliform (which indicate possible contamination with fecal matter), contrary to tap water rules, which prohibit any confirmed contamination with these bacteria. Similarly, there are no requirements for bottled water to be disinfected or tested for parasites such as cryptosporidium or giardia, unlike the rules for big city tap water systems that use surface water sources. This leaves open the possibility that some bottled water may present a health threat to people with weakened immune systems, such as the frail elderly, some infants, transplant or cancer patients, or people with HIV/AIDS.

Ironically, public concern about tap water quality is at least partly responsible for the growth in bottled water sales, which have tripled in the past 10 years. This bonanza is also fueled by marketing designed to convince the public of bottled water's purity and safety, marketing so successful that people spend from 240 to over 10,000 times more per gallon for bottled water than they typically do for tap water.

In fact, about one-fourth of bottled water is actually bottled tap water, according to government and industry estimates (some estimates go as high as 40 percent). And FDA rules allow bottlers to call their product "spring water" even though it may be brought to the surface using a pumped well, and it may be treated with chemicals. But the actual source of water is not always made clear -- some bottled water marketing is misleading, implying the water comes from pristine sources when it does not. In 1995, the FDA issued labeling rules to prevent misleading claims, but while the rules do prohibit some of the most deceptive labeling practices, they have not eliminated the problem.

Some examples of interesting labels NRDC observed include:

"Spring Water" (with a picture of a lake surrounded by mountains on the label) -- Was actually from an industrial parking lot next to a hazardous waste site.

Alasika™ -- "Alaska Premium Glacier Drinking Water: Pure Glacier Water From the Last Unpolluted Frontier, Bacteria Free" -- Apparently came from a public water supply. This label has since been changed after FDA intervention.

Vals Water -- "Known to Generations in France for its Purity and Agreeable Contribution to Health . . . Reputed to Help Restore Energy, Vitality, and Combat Fatigue" -- The International Bottled Water Association voluntary code prohibits health claims, but some bottlers still make such claims.

NRDC makes the following recommendations for improving bottled water safety precautions:

* The FDA should set strict limits for contaminants of concern in bottled water.
* The FDA's rules should apply to all bottled water distributed nationally or within a state, carbonated or not, and bottled water standards must be made at least as strict as those applicable to city tap water supplies.
* Water bottlers should be required to disclose water source, treatments and other key information as is now required of tap water systems.
* A penny-per-bottle fee should be initiated on bottled water to fund testing, regulatory programs, and enforcement at both state and national levels.
* State bottled water programs should be subject to federal review.

Ultimately, however, while Americans who choose to buy bottled water deserve the assurance that it is safe, the long-term solution to our drinking water problems is to ensure that safe, clean, good-tasting drinking water comes from our taps. Those who are particularly concerned about the quality of their tap water can take action by 1) calling their state drinking water program or the EPA Safe Drinking Water Hotline (800 426-4791) for a list of state certified labs; and 2) purchasing filters certified by NSF International (800 NSF-MARK) to remove the contaminants of special concern to the consumer (NSF certification is not, however, a complete guarantee of safety).

Based on BOTTLED WATER: Pure Drink or Pure Hype? a March 1999 report by the Natural Resources Defense Council (which includes a chart of our test results). See also the bottled water FAQ.

EDIT: See also: http://www.nrdc.org/water/drinking/bw/appb.asp
 
So what does it say?
I'm not interested enough to read that lot. I use tap water.

What point are you trying to make?
I think this started with talk about using bottled spring water and you stated it takes 7 miles of creek to clean it.
 
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