As is usual I have been asked to produce something weird...a corn based ( not malt based) beer . Supposedly this person has had this somewhere and wanted me to attempt it. How much 2 row would I need to add to 10 pounds of either flaked maize or regular field corn to actually get conversion? if using field corn do I have to actually cook it first? I am shooting for about 5-6 % ABV. Also will 2 row do it or will I have to go buy some 6 row?
question on conversion
- Thread starter OHIOSTEVE
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OHIOSTEVE
Well-Known Member
2 row is a type of malted barley. It is the usual base malt for most beers.
Two-row is malted barley, used as a base malt for beer.
microbusbrewery
Senior Member
drewN said:
US produced 2 row base malt.
Sounds like maybe Chicha beer. If you wanted to keep it 100% corn you could malt some of the corn. Or do like Dogfish Head and chew it up and spit it into your mash fun.
I have no idea. But here's a thought- you could definitely get more DP (at least a little bit) out of 6 row. I think most current 2-row base malts have a DP similar to 6-row, but for the most part 6-row is a little bit higher even so.
OHIOSTEVE
Well-Known Member
i have thought about malting some corn but this time of year that will be rough to do. I do have a temp controlled room for fermenting but it would take a lot of space I think to do it.....Unless I malted it and knocked off the sprouts and just went with it still wet rather than trying to dry it? HMMMM.....
Sounds like what he's talking about is Native American corn beer called Tizwin,pronounced Tizween. The corn is sprouted,then boiled down (reduced) 50%,then added to the FV,repeat till all is boiled. That's the way they did it on the OG. No barley malts,just corn. It was said to resemble English ale. I was thinking of after sprouting,bake in the oven till a light golden brown. I thought maybe it'd get more flavor & color. Gotta get some dried sweet corn though. Maybe 1 bushel...
OHIOSTEVE
Well-Known Member
bought 50 pounds of shelled corn this morning , trying my hand at malting a small amount of it to make this with no malted barley ...just corn
Was the dried corn sweet corn? That's what they used originally. Field corn wouldn't work as well,& tastes funky to me.
OHIOSTEVE
Well-Known Member
ugh.. I got field corn......oh well onward and upward lol
Well,try it & see what it's like for you. This is an area of little knowledge on here. Tizwin could be good,we just gotta do some batches to see what works & tastes/looks good. I was thinkin you can't get more authentic American thanksgiving drink then that. Origins,ya know...
OHIOSTEVE
Well-Known Member
Well I have 10 pounds of really clean shelled corn soaking in water. I will take it out of the water tomorrow and spread it out in a pillow case on a big pan in my ferment room temp set at 70 degrees ( no beer going now just some bulk aging) to see if I can get it to sprout.....In the meantime I am gonna crush about 10 pounds of plain shelled corn and try my hand at a cereal mash then add in some domestic 2 row and see what i can do with that..... this kinda has me intrigued now.
A few years ago my Bro-in-law asked me to make up a 100% Wal-mart Deer corn beer for his hunting camp. Well i tried doing the malt thing, but for me, it was a failure. Next came a search for enzymes and the outcome worked and they wound up with something somewhat worse than PBR. Very pale and little flavor (DMS). The corn had to be ground and cooked before mashing. Add Alpha amylase first for a rest at 152 f, then raise the temp to something I can't remember and add gluco amylase. The enzymes can be obtained from http://www.milehidistilling.com/additives/
Good luck in your pursuit of the ultimate corn beer...
Cool! A soon as it all sprouts those lil hairs,dry it in the oven a bit. Not sure you can mash it "wet"?... They used to dry it in the sun.
OHIOSTEVE
Well-Known Member
once the sprouts are about 1-1/2" long I can knock em off and dry it right? Then it will have the necessary enzymes for conversion without adding any 2 row or anything.. is that correct?
BTW I THINK you can mash it wet. it is only dried for storage as far as I know.
Check out this website for a corn whisky mash:
http://www.clawhammersupply.com/blo...3386482-how-to-make-moonshine-part-1-the-mash
They're using 1.5 lbs. of crushed malted barley to convert 8.5 lbs. of flaked maize. The maize is pre-gelatinized but your corn is not, so your best bet would be to grind the corn into grits and pre-cook it. Then use it in the recipe as you would maize. It should work.
http://www.clawhammersupply.com/blo...3386482-how-to-make-moonshine-part-1-the-mash
They're using 1.5 lbs. of crushed malted barley to convert 8.5 lbs. of flaked maize. The maize is pre-gelatinized but your corn is not, so your best bet would be to grind the corn into grits and pre-cook it. Then use it in the recipe as you would maize. It should work.
boscobeans
Well-Known Member
If you cook it (gelatinize) you need about a pound of 2 row to convert about 3 or so pounds of corn. If you malt the corn (and reach peak Lintner value for it) it would just be able to convert itself.
2 row is about 120L - 140L.
Malted corn is about 30L - 40L.
OMO
bosco
brycelarson
Well-Known Member
I was under the assumption that you're looking for 30-40 total for conversion - right?
6 row is 140-170, so that'll stretch further if you're trying to keep grain as low as possible.
but yeah, if malted corn is only 30-40 I'm correct in assuming that you would have to malt it all to convert during the mash - right?
boscobeans
Well-Known Member
30 to 40 is correct.
I use 2 row ( lets say with a 120 L value ) to reduce some unwanted stuff like DMS and such.
In theory you can mash 1 pound of 2 row with about 3 pounds of 0 (zero)L value grain.
1 X 120 L = 120 L
3 X 0 L = 0 L
--------------------
4 pounds = 120
120 L divided by 4 = 30 L
Yes, if you have (properly malted) corn with a value of 30 L or so it SHOULD be able to convert itself.
OMO
brycelarson
Well-Known Member
That's what we're getting at - malted corn has enough enzymatic activity to convert itself - but not other grain. This would mean that without adding other enzymes you would need to malt all of the corn to get it to convert.
base malts have enough enzymatic activity to convert other grains.
jeepinjeepin
Well-Known Member
Is this really a corn beer or a mash for corn liquor?
Corn beer commonlt kown to the old timers as Tizwin.
OHIOSTEVE
Well-Known Member
corn liquor is illegal to make. And forbidden to be discussed on here.
jeepinjeepin
Well-Known Member
OHIOSTEVE said:
I am aware. I had not heard of an all(or mostly) corn beer outside of the DFH Chicha experiment. Wasn't sure if this was serious and it appears to be so. Learn something everyday.
jeepinjeepin
Well-Known Member
jsv1204 said:
Good to know. I have that issue at home. I've been way too busy or tired to go through it.
OHIOSTEVE
Well-Known Member
ok since this has sprouted, once I knock the sprouts off I can just grind and mash it right? No need for a cereal mash now? ALSO if I am using it right away, no need to even dry it...correct? I have to be away tomorrow so will let it go until tomorrow afternoon.. tomorow afternoon I plan to put it in the oven on the lowest setting with the door open and dry it enough to knock off the sprouts...any advice is greatly appreciated.
brycelarson
Well-Known Member
yeah, if it's sprouting it's converting the starches into sugar so that it can eat it and grow. I would think a quick chop in a food processor or smash it up and you would be great.
OHIOSTEVE
Well-Known Member
ok got it all dried and the sprouts knocked off. I have been trying to crush this stuff for over an hour...nothing works. The barley crusher won't open up wide enough to let it fall in the wheels. Had to clean it all out by hand as it is mounted so no way to turn it up and just dump it without unscrewing it from the table.....tried the coffee grinder and that was successful for about 2 passes then it started jamming up.....tried the kitchen aide meat grinder.. locked it up tight.. BUT the finale was when I loaded up the electric food processor, and hit the switch accidentally while the cover was off. Evidently the safety switch that keeps it from coming on in this mode decided to work every time.....except that time.. corn and dust all over my kitchen. Called the wife and told her when she got home... just walk through and don't say a word.
brycelarson
Well-Known Member
Wait, so you sprouted it then dried it? Why dry it?
I know it doesn't solve your current problem - but you could have moved right to brewing with the damp live corn.
I know it doesn't solve your current problem - but you could have moved right to brewing with the damp live corn.
OHIOSTEVE
Well-Known Member
yes I know, but I wanted to remove the sprouts. I have read ( no experience) that the sprouts impart a " green" taste to the beer. drying it worked perfectly.
