Easy Stove-Top Pasteurizing - With Pics

BelMamba said:

Hmm, I am still wondering whether blowing air at the rim / popping the crown is a standard mode of failure or an indication of bad capping (bottles or capper - I used old Corona bottles and a cheap red capper). The carbonation was extremely low so if the pressure is to high even for that low carbonation, I don't know how to get carbonation into bottles ...

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If Corona bottles are screwtop, that might be your problem - they don't seal as well as standard bottles.

Regarding the pressure in the bottle, if there was 'very active fermentation' going on and your bottles were carbed in a few hours, as you said in your earlier post, that doesn't sound right to me. When I make cider, I let the fermentation slow down and the bottle carbonation takes a few days.

I suspect your fermentation is pumping out a lot of CO2 while you are bottling and pastuerizing. Having your caps blow may be a good thing - its better than having your bottle blow.

Pappers_ said:

If Corona bottles are screwtop, that might be your problem - they don't seal as well as standard bottles.

Regarding the pressure in the bottle, if there was 'very active fermentation' going on and your bottles were carbed in a few hours, as you said in your earlier post, that doesn't sound right to me. When I make cider, I let the fermentation slow down and the bottle carbonation takes a few days.

I suspect your fermentation is pumping out a lot of CO2 while you are bottling and pastuerizing. Having your caps blow may be a good thing - its better than having your bottle blow.

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Thanks again for your input, I did find one thing out:

Even though the Corona bottles have no screw-top, people have problems with some of them (esp. the C. Light ones) when using a wing capper since the second bulge at the bottle top (which the wing capper uses as leverage) is much closer to the first bulge (which holds the crown) and thus you can't pull the bell deep enough over the crown - not a problem with a bench capper.

I know you find it strange that I speak of carbonation after just 6 hours or so (especially since I did use S4 ale yeast not a very agressive one), but what I mean is that the cider was just slightly tickling on the tongue (just "moussez") and not fully carbonated. So even with active fermentation, the CO2 pressure was not where it is in your cider that clearly forms a foam layer ... btw, the picture of your crystal clear cider with the foam on top and the nice label is still my "one day I'll be there" goal

I know this is a nice and gentle failure mode compared to the exploding bottle - but if it does not allow me to build any decent pressure at all ...

I'll try it with different bottles next, the next batch is already fermenting. And from a taste perspective I love the outcome so much, I will put a lot of tries into stopping fermentation and using the natural fruit sweetness instead of back-sweetening .. I am to much of a French Cidre guy

Thx

PS: I tried to carbonize the flat stuff with a Sodamaker from Soda-Stream and it works great if the pressure release after carbonation (the tilting of the bottle) is done very slowly in multiple steps ... works best in an oversized bottle

I don't know if this has been talked about before on this thread but I was wondering if you could let the cider ferment out completely then add fresh cider to half prime and half sweeten to your desired gravity. Then monitor and pasteurize when carbonated. Theoretically this can do a few things:

1. Add a nice fresh apple flavor (especially if your cider is good!)
2. Add more alcohol and volume to the finished product
3. Give you a bit more control of the sweetness (because you could miss the gravity that you are shooting for when fermenting)
4. The bottles should carbonate a bit slower because the yeast at time of bottling have been sleeping a bit. This should then be a safer situation to work with.

Is my theory false in someway? I have never tried this before. I was just wanting some input.

The one downside of this could be the exact amount of fresh cider to add, but with trial and error it would be easy to duplicate.

your theory is bang on, many people do just that. you could find info if you scoured this thread and other threads on priming with juice, but there's not that much more you need to know. the only thing i disagree with is point 2, you are going to dilute the alcohol slightly, but not much and who cares. if you have the inclination you could freeze-concentrate the juice first, and thus get more sugar and flavor for the increase in volume.
you can calculate how much juice to add for proper priming by measuring the gravity of the juice, converting into brix which is % sugar, and comparing to the amount of regular sugar you would use to prime, but if you are going to backsweeten it also then you should forget the math and just go by taste, remembering that a tiny bit of that sweetness will be consumed in the carbonation process. and i think it's always wise to bottle one in a small soda bottle to serve as a guide for when pressure is building.

One other thing.

Could you just put the fresh carbonated bottle in the fridge and let the yeast settle to the bottom then pasteurize by only heating up the bottom inch of the bottle as opposed to almost the whole thing? This should save energy and time as long as it works. Did anybody ever try this?

That's a recipe for disaster...the temperature differential would almost certainly make the bottles explode, and if you warm things back up to room temp it'll be almost impossible to move the bottles without getting some yeast back into suspension, and that's assuming that everything drops out in the first place (fairly unlikely).

Assuming you can get those two things to work out, I'd bet you'd push some yeast back into suspension just from the thermal changes when you heat the bottle up. Please don't do this!

Gotcha

I have a slightly different issue that I wonder if this could fix it.

I put together my first cider/apfelwein yesterday using two gallons of fresh unpasteurized cider from a local farmer's market, pitched S-04 into it. It wasn't until earlier today, after fermentation had already started, that it occurred to me that using unpasteurized orchard cider without treating it with campden could be a little risky. As its already fermenting, it's probably too late for that.

My question is, would this pasteurizing method insure the cider safe to drink? Is there too much of a risk, should I dump the batch (not a big financial loss since its only two gallons)?

BeastofWotan said:

I have a slightly different issue that I wonder if this could fix it.

I put together my first cider/apfelwein yesterday using two gallons of fresh unpasteurized cider from a local farmer's market, pitched S-04 into it. It wasn't until earlier today, after fermentation had already started, that it occurred to me that using unpasteurized orchard cider without treating it with campden could be a little risky. As its already fermenting, it's probably too late for that.

My question is, would this pasteurizing method insure the cider safe to drink? Is there too much of a risk, should I dump the batch (not a big financial loss since its only two gallons)?

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I wouldn't worry. Not sure what you mean by un pasturised cider from a farmers market? If it was pasturized I thought you then wouldn't be able to ferment it?
I press my own apples, and all I do is add campden tablets a day before adding my own yeast, to kill any wild yeasts, but that's just a precaution. I think your cider will be fine. Don't chuck it, no point throwing it out, its only two gallons. See how it turns out.

Also, the pasturizing in this topic. Isn't as such to make the cider safe to drink, its to stop the yeast continuing to produce co2 in the bottles so they don't explode. An answer to having a sweeter, carb ed cider, by bottle conditioning.

I bottled a batch of this yesterday, 5 gallons of cider and s-04. I bottled at 1.012.

Do you do your sampling at room temperature or do you put the bottle in the fridge the day before? I pulled a bottle tonight and it automatically flowed from the bottle once opened. The bottle sampled was at room temperature. Not sure if I should start the pasteurization process right now or if I can wait the recommended 4-5 days.

Thanks for any help on this. I am new to the cider area.

Has anyone used this pasteurization method with Grolsch-style swing-cap bottles? If so did it work without any problems?

yes, i have, with 750 ml bottles. at high temp the rubber seals became loose and you could hear gas escaping, but in the end they still held gas

So I just did this with a 1 gallon carboy to some wine and at first It wasnt looking to promising. I used this technique for some wine that I wanted to stop fermenting at a FG so it would maintain residual sweetness but when I put it in the water I noticed that the yeast went crazy and started going at it like an animal. So after 10 minutes I was expecting it to stop with the bubbles but it didn't so I put it for 20 minutes and it was still going crazy. I took it out and laid it on the counter in defeat. Not only did I not stop fermenting but now it went past the FG I wanted and I guess I would have to just let it dry out.

But there and behold about 2 minutes later the yeast stopped! Victory was mine! So I guess if you are looking for this trchnique to stop it at a specific FG then you want to pasteurize at .01 above your desired FG.

Great technique thanks a bunch!

So this might have been asked before but not sure. I am going to bottle five gallons of cider tonight and plan on pasteurizing them with this method in the coming days to stop the fermentation. What I am wondering is this going to mess with the aging the cider will then go through in the bottle? I plan on aging it for a while (6 months to a year).

Munns86 said:

So this might have been asked before but not sure. I am going to bottle five gallons of cider tonight and plan on pasteurizing them with this method in the coming days to stop the fermentation. What I am wondering is this going to mess with the aging the cider will then go through in the bottle? I plan on aging it for a while (6 months to a year).

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I don't know - the cider I use the pasteurizing method on is a light, draft-style cider which doesn't require aging, its ready to drink right away.

If you are making a bigger cider that will require some aging, perhaps you should let it age in the carboy, then backsweeten and bottle when you are ready?

Brilliant. This solves all my problems.

Pappers,
On your website it says you bottle at around 1.010 and use priming sugar. Won't that cause bottle bombs? Or does it just carb up a lot quicker requiring a lot more checking of the bottles during conditioning?

jehetzel said:

Pappers,
On your website it says you bottle at around 1.010 and use priming sugar. Won't that cause bottle bombs? Or does it just carb up a lot quicker requiring a lot more checking of the bottles during conditioning?

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I prime so that I keep the cider at about the same specific gravity as I measure it at. In other words, if I measure it at 1.010, then prime, bottle, carb and pastuerize, it ends up at about 1.010.

You can bottle, carb and pasteurize without adding the priming sugar, of course, because there are plenty of apple sugars left for the yeast to eat up.

At 1.010, the bottles are at risk of becoming bottle bombs, unless I stop the yeast, as I do with pasteurizing. Adding priming sugar doesn't make it more risky, in my experience.

In dozens of batches, I've had one bottle cap blow off, and no bottles exploding. But, that's using my cider, my process, etc. Your experience may be different.

Do they carb up a lot quicker that way since primary really isnt over yet? Just trying to make sense of it all before I try it. Thanks!

jehetzel said:

Do they carb up a lot quicker that way since primary really isnt over yet? Just trying to make sense of it all before I try it. Thanks!

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I bottle before the yeast is done, so that the cider is still semi-dry (sweetish). Mine tend to carbonate to the level I like between 3 - 7 days. Again, your experience may be different.

I can't remember if I've already suggested this, so apologies for repeating if I have - you might check out www.makinghardcider.com for a very good explanation of another approach to making semi-dry bottle carbonated cider. In this method, you let the yeast ferment the cider all the way to dry, add an apple flavoring, backsweeten with a non-fermentable, prime with sugar and then bottle.

thanks a lot pappers! I dont think you mentioned that site to me before but that was the first site I found when I started making cider and it helped a ton. I seem to like your method a lot better. It seems to me that if you let it ferment totally dry to say .990 then it takes forever for your bottles to carbonate. Just my experience even though I dont have very much. haha thanks again!

I only got to page 13 before posting this, so I apologize if this has already been discussed or answered.

People are talking about the difficulty in getting the carbonation just right -- i.e., it easily overshoots their desired carbonation levels.

Here's what I think I'll try, if HBT thinks it's a good idea:

1) Let my cider fully ferment out dry.
2) Sweeten to desired sweetness level using honey.
3) Add corn sugar for desired volumes of CO2 (perhaps slightly less).

I'm thinking that the yeast should quickly eat all the corn sugar, but only slowly work on the sugar. So you should see an initial, quick rise in carbonation levels and then a slow rise due to the honey. This would also be helpful to me, as I like my apfelwein very carbonated, but don't want to blow my face off waiting to hit 3 vols.

Edit to say: Maybe the honey would have heat-resistant wild yeast? Is that possible?

I love this method - I did it over the weekend and it was easy and hassle free. And it appears to have been quite effective.

My only two set-backs were that I did seem to lose some carbonation, and I did have one bottle detonate while in the water. It was like a depth-charge going off in an old WWII movie about U-boats. Thankfully the lid was on the pot!

I've read a majority of this thread and I'm sure this has been asked before, but for the life of me I can't find it. I am wondering if anyone has come up with the time necessary to pasteurize half-liter, liter, and/or bomber-size bottles? I have five gallons to bottle in a few days, and I can use all 12 oz bottles if need be, but I'd prefer some variety.

Trying this for the first time today so far so good I have 2 pots big enough for this so going pretty quick. This was the first batch of 13 gallons and going for a second round of 13 Thanks again this was a big help!!!

I tried my hand at this. The 5th bottle I put in broke in half seconds after being put in the water. I sustained a long shallow cut on my hand for my trouble. This was partly my fault however, because some of the bottles I used were several years old. I cold crashed all the old bottles and pasteurized the fresh ones with no issues whatsoever.

I also used a pair of jar tongs to retrieve my bottles. It's a tool I use for home canning and it fits the contours of a beer bottle very well, too. For anyone out there who is serious about bottle pasteurizing, I think this is a worthwhile investment.

Are any of you using this method for other sweet carbed beverages like skeeter pee, or some kind of home made wine cooler?

When I pasteurized my first batch of cider, I definitely over sweetened. For a 3 gallon batch, I added two cans of concentrate, and a half cup of brown sugar. I waited about 5 days at room temperature. I bottled in 16oz Grolsch bottles with new seals. Out of 18 bottles, 7 of the seals were forced off the lid by too much pressure inside. Mind you, they didn't lose the seal completely, just forced one side of the gasket off the top of the bottle. They were spitting and whistling like crazy. I was carrying them around like they were hot plutonium!!! Goggles, tongs, gloves, the works! Thought for sure at any moment my house would be covered in glass and cider.
Anyways, I moved my entire batch to a plastic tote, and let them cool. Later that day, I carefully opened those affected bottles, and straightened the gasket, resealing when I was finished. To be on the safe side, I have kept that entire batch in the refrigerator since.
I'm wondering if I waited too long before pasteurizing??? Did I not leave enough head space??? (about an inch and a half)
BTW, my cider turned out great! Sweet and sparkling. Just what I wanted.

Colby Jack

Hello there. New guy here sucking up info in preparation for my first cider brew. I was just wondering if anybody has used the aluminum bud bottles in this pasteurization method? I would think the better conductivity of aluminum would transfer the heat better and there would be no risk of flying glass shards. A bonus would be 16 oz vs 12 oz meaning less bottles to clean before bottling.

Thanks,
Greg

Has anyone tried this with wine bottles yet? The main thing I am worried about is the corks popping out due to the increased pressure inside the bottles. I will be bottling a still wassail next week.

ColbyJack said:

When I pasteurized my first batch of cider, I definitely over sweetened. For a 3 gallon batch, I added two cans of concentrate, and a half cup of brown sugar. I waited about 5 days at room temperature. I bottled in 16oz Grolsch bottles with new seals. Out of 18 bottles, 7 of the seals were forced off the lid by too much pressure inside. Mind you, they didn't lose the seal completely, just forced one side of the gasket off the top of the bottle. They were spitting and whistling like crazy. I was carrying them around like they were hot plutonium!!! Goggles, tongs, gloves, the works! Thought for sure at any moment my house would be covered in glass and cider.
Anyways, I moved my entire batch to a plastic tote, and let them cool. Later that day, I carefully opened those affected bottles, and straightened the gasket, resealing when I was finished. To be on the safe side, I have kept that entire batch in the refrigerator since.
I'm wondering if I waited too long before pasteurizing??? Did I not leave enough head space??? (about an inch and a half)
BTW, my cider turned out great! Sweet and sparkling. Just what I wanted.

Colby Jack

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Did you mix all of that together and put it straight into bottles or did you put it into a carboy or fermenter for five days?

Thanks for this sticky. I stove-top pasteurized a cider this morning and it seems to have worked well. Quick question. I do have some lees left in the bottom of the bottles from my carbing proces, which are now re-suspended by the convection currents created during pasteurization. How long do these normally take to settle back out?

A hint as well. When you pick a plastic soft drink bottle to use as your indicator for when the carbonation is as you like it, try to match the carbonation of the beverage in question with the desired carbonation of the beverage you are making. I use Perrier bottles for ciders.

MMBB said:

Did you mix all of that together and put it straight into bottles or did you put it into a carboy or fermenter for five days?

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After reading your question, I re-read my post. i was clear as mud, for sure, but didn't want to write a novel for my first post ever.

According to my notes, I had 3 gallons juice, 2tsp yeast nutrient, 2 tsp pectic enzyme, and a tube of nottingham yeast. 4 days later, I added 2/3 cup light brown sugar boiled in 2 cups water, then chilled. On day 12, racked cider onto 1 tsp pectic enzyme, 2 cans GV apple juice concentrate. Produced 19 grolsch bottles.

What I think went wrong was I let the bottles boil too long-- after reading this entire thread, I'm still not certain if I should actively boil them, or cut the heat, cover, and wait 10 minutes. Either way, bottles have carbed up nicely, and I have become a superstar to SWMBO.

BTW, I just bottled 2nd batch last night. Used 2 pounds brown sugar, 6 gallons of GV apple juice from concentrate, dry nottingham, 3 tsp pectic enzyme, and 3 tsp yeast nutrient. I racked on to 1/2 cup cane sugar in 2 cups water, yielding 44 pints. I also used a plastic tester bottle to know when to pasteurize. I stopped racked to secondary about a week in, just to clear it up. This is a huge success. Cheaper to make. Less steps. Not as sweet. This is my type of cider, not hers. I got down to 1.018 before I bottled.
Colby Jack

ColbyJack said:

What I think went wrong was I let the bottles boil too long-- after reading this entire thread, I'm still not certain if I should actively boil them, or cut the heat, cover, and wait 10 minutes.

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No, don't let it boil - either the water or the cider. I used 190 degree waters, others use 170. But boiling is too hot.

Pappers_ said:

No, don't let it boil - either the water or the cider. I used 190 degree waters, others use 170. But boiling is too hot.

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Thanks Pappers. I just bought the floating thermometer, and have moved my brewing to the garage with a gas-fired burner. Much more control, and space, I hope.

Colby Jack

Tonight I plan on bottling a very simple cider like pappy's recipe. The only difference is that I used Red Star Montreche yeast (had it in the fridge). I may have to backsweeten with concentrate a little more than I'd intended, this stuff's gone wild. Guess that's what I get for using wine yeast. Going to try to be very close to 1.01 when I bottle.

Anyhow, I figure that within a day I'll need to pasteurize, especially if this stuff continues going like it has been. I have mostly 22 oz. bottles because I hate bottling. How long would you leave them in the water to be sure all the yeast is dead. My guess is it'll be longer than the smaller bottles.

Thanks for any help

ditchbanker said:

Tonight I plan on bottling a very simple cider like pappy's recipe. The only difference is that I used Red Star Montreche yeast (had it in the fridge). I may have to backsweeten with concentrate a little more than I'd intended, this stuff's gone wild. Guess that's what I get for using wine yeast. Going to try to be very close to 1.01 when I bottle.

Anyhow, I figure that within a day I'll need to pasteurize, especially if this stuff continues going like it has been. I have mostly 22 oz. bottles because I hate bottling. How long would you leave them in the water to be sure all the yeast is dead. My guess is it'll be longer than the smaller bottles.

Thanks for any help

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This wasn't your question, but I'm reading between the lines and wanted to check on something. When I bottle cider, the fermentation has died down, it doesn't look like an active fermentation at that point, the yeast are still working, but have slowed down. I don't use wine yeast in cider, so I don't know how it works, but if it seems really active, I wouldn't bottle.

As for your question, I can't say from experience pasteurizing 22 oz bottles, but I'm sure others will come along who have. I would try what you are suggesting - put a bottle in for a few extra minutes. But I really think 10 minutes should probably do it, especially if you don't crowd the pot with bottles.

Huh. Maybe I should have logged in BEFORE I bottled tonight...

I have very little experience with ale yeasts, one batch of pale ale from extracts, so I didn't realize my batch was that different. Compared to the last few days, my air lock activity slowed WAY down, which is to say 1 bubble every 4-5 seconds instead of 1-2.

I checked the hydrometer tonight and it read 1.011-1.012 so I decided I'd just bottle without adding any priming sugar. Never bottled a drink that was so carbonated before. Took a little longer.

I filled several PET bottles. I'll keep a very close eye on them. Before I go to work in the morning I'll probably put all the bottles into the garage where my high temp tomorrow will probably be 55 degrees to slow them down.

I guess in the next few days I'll have new experiences to share. I will likely go from filling up the primary to pasteurized in less than a week. We'll see how that turns out.

Hi,

I have my first batch of cider fermenting right now and I would like to try this method. My question is, when I went to my LHBS they talked me out of using nottingham ale yeast and gave me champagne yeast instead. Will this have any additional adverse affects over ale yeast when it comes time to pasteurize on the stove?

Also, my bottles are mostly recycled sam adams bottles, some of which may be a few years old that I have used for bottling beer, would they be more fragile than newer bottles and more likely to pop?

ditchbanker said:

Huh. Maybe I should have logged in BEFORE I bottled tonight...

I have very little experience with ale yeasts, one batch of pale ale from extracts, so I didn't realize my batch was that different. Compared to the last few days, my air lock activity slowed WAY down, which is to say 1 bubble every 4-5 seconds instead of 1-2.

I checked the hydrometer tonight and it read 1.011-1.012 so I decided I'd just bottle without adding any priming sugar. Never bottled a drink that was so carbonated before. Took a little longer.

I filled several PET bottles. I'll keep a very close eye on them. Before I go to work in the morning I'll probably put all the bottles into the garage where my high temp tomorrow will probably be 55 degrees to slow them down.

I guess in the next few days I'll have new experiences to share. I will likely go from filling up the primary to pasteurized in less than a week. We'll see how that turns out.

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Don't worry to much. Even though I posted before that I got into trouble by pasteurizing during active fermentation, these problems turned out to be related to the bottles I used in combination with the capper.

I have done two more 5 gallon batches that I stopped mid-fermentation at about 1.010 with the pasteurization method and they turned out great and no bottle exploded in the last weeks. You just have to be prepared to pasteurize on a whim after just a few days in the bottle, a week max. I also do multiple PETs to not miss the point.

Thanks a million, Pappers, my ideal of an all natural but still somewhat apple-y sweet hard cider without any addition of sugar / back sweeteners is only possible because of your detailed instructions!!