Lets talk technique to brew the perfect Light American Lager.

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GilaMinumBeer

GilaMinumBeer

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I've myself a bug to brew what's touted to be the "most difficult beer to brew well". Lately, I have been getting some wonderful compliments from some respectable people in my beer circle (pro brewers, judges, EAC's) and am thinking it's time to test my metal.

I have no intention to clone any commercialized brands here and the guidelines aren't set to stone but, the more challenging to get right the better.

So,

Water is an big issue for sure but I'd rather start in with raw materials and tweak from there. This I expect means;

- 6 Row Malt in minimal prortions approaching the limits of diastatic power.
- Corn or Rice in large proportions.
- Noble Hops (and very little of them).

IIRC, with the 6 Row you can go as low as 20% (I can research) does this sound right?

I know the rice would have to be cooked first to gelatinize and I know that Flaked Maize could be used as the corn source but, what about raw or canned (not creamed) corn? What about sweet corn?

Anyone want to play with me on this topic?
 
Flaked rice, maybe? I have heard of using minute rice, too.

Shouldn't the hops be Cluster?

Corn starch will work too, but it does make the brew a little cloudy.
 
Canned or frozen corn IS sweet corn, and it is quite different from grain corn. It is harvested wet instead of allowed to ripen and dry in the field and is has a much higher sugar content. I don't think it will get you the same results.

I think you should do a cereal mash for this beer. Then you can handle raw corn or rice. Plus it adds to the complexity of the task.

Also I would still use 2-row (its not that different in enzymes) and keep it to around 50%. 2-row has a little more neutral flavor and I don't think the big brewers ever went quite that high on the adjuncts, but I could be wrong.

Not an experiment I would ever try myself.

Craig
 
Okay. Flaked Rice works too. I forgot to add in the previous post a large portion of Rice Hulls to aide lautering. I'd prefer to keep the ingredients as raw as possible tho'. Given the subtlety of the style I'd be interested to try varieties of rice and see what the final result may be. Basmati, Jasmine, Long Grain, Short grain, etc.... See how much rice actually comes through.

Why should the hops be Cluster specifically? I'll look into Cluster as I am not familiar with them. I suspect that varietal has the mild character benificial to the style is what you are suggesting.

Corn starch, hmmm, I suppose if used then Gelatin would be in order to aide clarification along with kettle finnings (unless it were filtered).
 
CBBaron said:
Canned or frozen corn IS sweet corn, and it is quite different from grain corn. It is harvested wet instead of allowed to ripen and dry in the field and is has a much higher sugar content. I don't think it will get you the same results.
Click to expand...

So, we are talking feed corn then, right? Boiled to gelatinize then added to the main mash with a crapload of rice hulls and a multitude of rest steps.

CBBaron said:
Not an experiment I would ever try myself.

Craig
Click to expand...

And that is perfectly fine. Thanks for playing anyways.
 
I bought a bulk bag of flaked rice. I'm heading down the same path. :) No doubt my neighbor will drink all of my experiments up.

I have read that whiskey mashes commonly go all the way down to 15%-20% malted 6-row. I can't imagine that such a low % of malt would produce a drinkable beer though. Even mashed at 158*F the result would be like alcopop in the bottle.

I'm planning to start at 65-75% 2-row, 5% Vienna, and 20%-30% adjuncts with a 148*F mash and dial it in from there. I'm going with 2-row since I don't want the grainy flavor of 6-row. My 20% corn cream ale was too much corn, so I'm leaning toward going 10-20% flaked rice and no more than 10% corn. You could also use brewer's grade corn syrup, or corn sugar.

Since lagers take longer I may do a bunch of 2 gallon batches with US-05 and then go for the lager yeast once I get the grain bill dialed in where I want it.
 
I recently brewed a bud-type clone. It was extra light DME, rice syrup solids, and corn sugar. Cluster hops (I read that is what AB uses) and two packs of S-23. It is a small batch, for the 3 gallon keg.

It is...interesting. The Cluster gave it a slight grapefruit taste, kinda nice, actually.

I'm taking it to a Cinco De Mayo party (late, I know) this weekend.

I am thinking of an all grain version later, with Pils malt and flaked rice.

Need to brew an American Wheat and another amber first, though.
 
Gila... you're a more advanced brewer than I, but I have made a few batches using 6 lb two-row, 2 lbs cracked field corn (livestock feed with a cereal mash) and 1 lb cooked rice and it turns out nice--it takes a while in the keg to get crystal clear, but I don't use a clarifier. I tried it with canned sweet corn and didn't care for it. I have used dried sweet corn (just leave it on the stalk as is done with field corn) to make a whiskey mash that works very well, and I'm growing enough sweet corn this year to dry a few pounds and try mashing it for the beer recipe. Based on the whiskey mash, I suspect the dried sweet corn, flaked or pressurized or just crushed and cereal mashed, might be better than field corn but I won't be able to try it till fall.
 
IIRC, Bud uses rice as an adjunct, and Busch uses corn. So, I guess the adjunct depends on what flavor you are shooting for.

Most, if not all online vendors carry flaked wheat and flaked corn, but few seem to carry flaked rice. My LHBS did not even know flaked rice existed. He does carry rice syrup solids, but that stuff runs over $5 a pound.
 
feed corn is a low sugar crop iirc. higher in protien than sweet corn

ive been down this path before, i like about 6-7# pilsener malt with 2# ea of flaked rice and corn since they are already cooked. back it with cascade hops for bitter and either hallertau or northern brewer for flavor/aroma additions.
 
I think the best way to make a great American Lager is to keep the grain bill quite simple, around 60/40 6-row/rice or corn. Pitch enough yeast and ferment cold. But the most important part that a lot of people ignore is filtering. This is not just to take out the yeast bite, it also strips small amounts of flavor and aroma that will make it taste more to style.
 
Cluster is a classic old school American hop, used fairly heavy in the BMC beers. I recently used it in a CAP and I'm looking forward to this beer.

In my Std. American lager I use equal parts 6-row and flaked corn (1.5 lbs ea.) and then enough Pilsner malt to hit my target OG. (1.046). I go decidedly un-American with my hops using Sorachi Ace for bittering and EKG for flavor and the tiniest smidge of both (< 1/4 oz. total) for aroma.
 
Tonedef131 said:
I think the best way to make a great American Lager is to keep the grain bill quite simple, around 60/40 6-row/rice or corn. Pitch enough yeast and ferment cold. But the most important part that a lot of people ignore is filtering. This is not just to take out the yeast bite, it also strips small amounts of flavor and aroma that will make it taste more to style.
Click to expand...

I would always filter... I filter my cream ale too. 1 micron seems to remove most of the yeast but not any body, so I'm going to add a .5 micron second filtration which should add a brilliant polish and strip out some of the longer dextrine chains.
 
Saccharomyces said:
I would always filter... I filter my cream ale too. 1 micron seems to remove most of the yeast but not any body, so I'm going to add a .5 micron second filtration which should add a brilliant polish and strip out some of the longer dextrine chains.
Click to expand...
I just go straight for the .5 micron without any other filtration. If it's been lagering for a bit there won't be enough yeast to clog it, but if you go straight from the primary you might need to do a 5 micron prefilter or something.
 
I saw earlier in the thread the mention of minute rice to avoid the need of preboiling the grain. Would instant polenta be a viable, no-boil substitute for corn?
 
GilaMinumBeer said:
I've myself a bug to brew what's touted to be the "most difficult beer to brew well". Lately, I have been getting some wonderful compliments from some respectable people in my beer circle (pro brewers, judges, EAC's) and am thinking it's time to test my metal.

I have no intention to clone any commercialized brands here and the guidelines aren't set to stone but, the more challenging to get right the better.

So,

Water is an big issue for sure but I'd rather start in with raw materials and tweak from there. This I expect means;

- 6 Row Malt in minimal prortions approaching the limits of diastatic power.
- Corn or Rice in large proportions.
- Noble Hops (and very little of them).

IIRC, with the 6 Row you can go as low as 20% (I can research) does this sound right?

I know the rice would have to be cooked first to gelatinize and I know that Flaked Maize could be used as the corn source but, what about raw or canned (not creamed) corn? What about sweet corn?

Anyone want to play with me on this topic?
Click to expand...

Might be fun to try and do it the 'ol fashion way. Mash your base grains and collect the wort. Then take fresh uncooked corn cob, pull the husks and strings off, use a knife to cut the corn kernels off the cob. Put them in a strainer and mash/pulp 'em into your boil pan. Transfer your wort from your base grains to the boil pan. Leave the strainer with the pulp in for the entire boil, and do your normal boil procedure, and transfer it to the primary fermenter. Transfer the strainer of pulp to the primary as well, and leave it in for the entire primary fermentation. After primary fermenation completes.....squeeze it out and toss it, then rack to secondary.


Kind of combines the method of making corn wine, old fashioned corn beer, and modern methods all together.
 
Why use flaked corn? or flaked rice for that matter? cereal mashes are easy and take almost no time. I just brewed up an ESB last weekend that used corn, and I just cereal mashed up some corn meal. Boil it up with some water, and keep adding water as it boils to make sure it does not scorch. Next time I'm just going to head down to the local tortilla factory and get some masa from them, should work great.
 
I'm going to take this beer camping on Memorial Day weekend for the BMC lovers. It tasted pretty good going into the keg, but that was almost a month ago. I think it will please the masses.
 
I don't think Bud (or any of the BMC's) have used cluster since prohibition.

I've heard that they use a fairly large number of different hops mostly American noble derivatives, so they can move the percentages around depending on the crop year to come out with a consistent "house" taste. (There was a guy on the Sunday Session about a year ago who is a craft beer guy now but worked for A-B for quite awhile that talked about this.)

Cluster is appropriate for a CAP. But Bud is not a CAP.

Also, from the same half remembered unatrributable sources, I think they only go up to about 25% adjuncts.

Rudeboy
 

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