Dropped Better Bottle, how to remove dent

Title pretty much sums it up. Thought about trying to plug it up and force air into it. Any ideas?

Seems like that would work... Just put a stopper in the top and try to fill the better bottle with air from a air compressor..

fill it with hot tap water first for a while.

WHOA, easy with the air compressor thing. That's a lot of air in something not meant for pressure. Ever see a tire blowout? You could get really hurt. Partially fill with some water before doing anything crazy. Water doesn't compress! Play it safe and use a stick, live with it or buy another one!

EdWort said:

fill it with hot tap water first for a while.

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If you fill it with hot water and then cork it, it will force the water to expand and create a higher pressure and will probably fix the dent, assuming it's not on a crease.

fill it with water, cork it, freeze it

Neunelfer said:

If you fill it with hot water and then cork it, it will force the water to expand and create a higher pressure and will probably fix the dent, assuming it's not on a crease.

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Dude I really like your Avatar!!

Neunelfer said:

If you fill it with hot water and then cork it, it will force the water to expand and create a higher pressure and will probably fix the dent, assuming it's not on a crease.

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Water contracts when it cools (until it's cool enough to crystallise, whereupon it expands); filling it with hot water and corking it will produce a lower pressure, not a higher one.

hoppingmad said:

fill it with water, cork it, freeze it

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Kidding right?

BuffaloSabresBrewer said:

Kidding right?

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Not at all!

I have fixed MANY a fuel tank or exhaust pipe with this method. Just monitor it, and catch it when it has popped so it doesn't go too far and ruin it.

flowerysong said:

Water contracts when it cools (until it's cool enough to crystallise, whereupon it expands); filling it with hot water and corking it will produce a lower pressure, not a higher one.

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Yes and no.

When the hot water gets into the tank it will still be vaporizing. If the water vapor has nowhere to escape since you capped it and it is an expanding gas it will increase the pressure. Once the gas cools (which will take a bit) then it will condense back to liquid form.

Neunelfer said:

When the hot water gets into the tank it will still be vaporizing. If the water vapor has nowhere to escape since you capped it and it is an expanding gas it will increase the pressure. Once the gas cools (which will take a bit) then it will condense back to water form.

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Maybe if it's boiling, but empirical testing with (as originally specified) hot water fails to show a significant increase in pressure.

flowerysong said:

Maybe if it's boiling, but empirical testing with (as originally specified) hot water fails to show a significant increase in pressure.

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You are forgetting that the hot water isn't being poured into a vacuum.

Huh?

I didn't pour it into a vacuum. I poured it into a PET container with an airtight closure and a minor dent.

empirical, adj. Derived from experiment and observation.

Poobah58 said:

WHOA, easy with the air compressor thing. That's a lot of air in something not meant for pressure. Ever see a tire blowout? You could get really hurt. Partially fill with some water before doing anything crazy. Water doesn't compress! Play it safe and use a stick, live with it or buy another one!

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Who are you to trifle with natural selection?

I'd try the ping pong ball technique...
Every time my dog would crush and dent a ping pong ball, I'd just pour boiling water over the ball, causing the air inside to heat and expand and pop the ball into its original shape.

Instead of putting hot water inside the better bottle, just try sealing it with only air and pour boiling water one top.

I guess a dented BB is much better than a broken glass carboy

Poobah58 said:

WHOA, easy with the air compressor thing. That's a lot of air in something not meant for pressure. Ever see a tire blowout? You could get really hurt. Partially fill with some water before doing anything crazy. Water doesn't compress! Play it safe and use a stick, live with it or buy another one!

Click to expand...

Mythbusters did an episode where they pressure tested standard 5gal water bottles and they held 95 psi. I would guess a better bottle could do the same, so if you stay under 30 or so it should be doable.

Either way though, I would rig something and have it at the end of a 50' air hose. If it works your better bottle is fixed. If it doesn't you have a $25 firecracker.

If the dent is near the botton, just use a broomstick. If you want to try pressure, put about 1 gallon of very hot tap water in, put a water cooler cap on it, hold it on tight and shake.

Notice the use of TAP WATER. Not boiling water or water heated on the stove. You will melt your Better Bottle if you do that.

The Better Bottle is rated for water temps up to 140 degrees Fahrenheit.

flowerysong said:

Huh?

I didn't pour it into a vacuum. I poured it into a PET container with an airtight closure and a minor dent.

empirical, adj. Derived from experiment and observation.

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I'm familiar with the term, I'm a Chemistry major.

Fill it with water to about 4 inches from the top.

Open your hand and smack the top of the opening really hard with your palm. The pressure sould force the dent out. If you do this to a partially filled bottle you'll break the bottom out...should work with plastic...

I think the manufacture has advised that dented BBs are no longer oxygen barriers at the crease point.

Water + Dry Ice + Cork

You'll just have to hope the cork is weaker than the sides, or there will be one heck of a boom.

This would be best suited when with some friends and after a few homebrews. If it can't live to see another brew, it midas well go out with a bang!

Seriously though, I think filling it with water and freezing. That should create more of an even pressure.

homebrewer_99 said:

Fill it with water to about 4 inches from the top.

Open your hand and smack the top of the opening really hard with your palm. The pressure sould force the dent out. If you do this to a partially filled bottle you'll break the bottom out...should work with plastic...

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You'd be suprised, this should work well. I was going to say about vinegar or lemon juice plus baking soda and cap it to apply low pressure to pop the dent, but I totally didn't think of homebrewer_99s' suggestion!

Just use some air from the compressor. You won't have it sealed so well that you could explode it. But, if you do, send videos.

How bad's the dent? I have one that's dented and it works fine.

Lets see some pics

you could just call DentPro....or try Fixadent

Neunelfer said:

If you fill it with hot water and then cork it, it will force the water to expand and create a higher pressure and will probably fix the dent, assuming it's not on a crease.

Click to expand...

You may be a chem major, but you obviously didn't take any physics. Leave a half full water bottle in a hot car... as water temp increases, the bottle will firm up.

If you put hot water in and then cork it, it will lower internal air pressure and force the container to contract more.

You have it backwards.

MoRoToRiUm said:

You'd be suprised, this should work well. I was going to say about vinegar or lemon juice plus baking soda and cap it to apply low pressure to pop the dent, but I totally didn't think of homebrewer_99s' suggestion!

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+1 on this... probably the simplest method.

That or fill with COLD water and then cork it.

Sweet! A Science Fight!

No, lordbeermestrength's understanding is low.

We're not talking about putting hot water in it, corking it, and leaving it. Sure, over a long time (several hours) it will cool and then contract.

You put hot water in it, cork it, and it *will* expand - the heating of the air above the water causes that. Shake it, and it expands even more. I know this every time I clean my kegs - fill with hot water and OxyClean, seal the lid, and push on the poppet - pssshhh! goes the poppet. I would have to let it cool overnight before it would start to pull a vacuum.

Gosh, and I didn't even get a 4-year degree.
-keith

keithd said:

No, lordbeermestrength's understanding is low.

We're not talking about putting hot water in it, corking it, and leaving it. Sure, over a long time (several hours) it will cool and then contract.

You put hot water in it, cork it, and it *will* expand - the heating of the air above the water causes that. Shake it, and it expands even more. I know this every time I clean my kegs - fill with hot water and OxyClean, seal the lid, and push on the poppet - pssshhh! goes the poppet. I would have to let it cool overnight before it would start to pull a vacuum.

Gosh, and I didn't even get a 4-year degree.
-keith

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The oxyclean has a lot to do with the expansion in that situation- Oxyclean is a bicarbonate cleaner, right?

To see what boiling water will do to your better bottle, try it on a 2 liter bottle first. PET plastic does not like boiling water.


A more interesting experiment would be to ferment a batch in the dented bottle and cap it shut until the dent pops out. Probably will have to duct tape the cap shut.

Video/pictures would be great!

keithd said:

No, lordbeermestrength's understanding is low.

We're not talking about putting hot water in it, corking it, and leaving it. Sure, over a long time (several hours) it will cool and then contract.

You put hot water in it, cork it, and it *will* expand - the heating of the air above the water causes that. Shake it, and it expands even more. I know this every time I clean my kegs - fill with hot water and OxyClean, seal the lid, and push on the poppet - pssshhh! goes the poppet. I would have to let it cool overnight before it would start to pull a vacuum.

Gosh, and I didn't even get a 4-year degree.
-keith

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I don't beleive my understanding is low. I just read what was said by Neunelfer. Did I misunderstand? Doesn't look like it.

Neunelfer said:

If you fill it with hot water and then cork it, it will force the water to expand and create a higher pressure and will probably fix the dent, assuming it's not on a crease.

Click to expand...

Neunelfer said:

Yes and no.

When the hot water gets into the tank it will still be vaporizing. If the water vapor has nowhere to escape since you capped it and it is an expanding gas it will increase the pressure. Once the gas cools (which will take a bit) then it will condense back to liquid form.

Click to expand...

lordbeermestrength said:

I don't beleive my understanding is low. I just read what was said by Neunelfer. Did I misunderstand? Doesn't look like it.

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The problem here is that I used vague terms so that the average Joe could understand. The expansion comes from the gas, a combination of the water vapor from the hot water and the gas already inside the bottle. If you keep the volume and moles of gas constant and increase the temperature the pressure has to increase. You can see this from the ideal gas law: Pressure x Volume =moles x Gas constant x Temperature. Since V, n and R are constant it is basically the relationship of pressure = temperature. You do believe that the temperature of the gas inside the bottle will increase if you add hot water correct?

I never suggested using boiling water, that was another user. I also do not even know if it would create enough pressure to press out the dent, it was just a friendly suggestion. However, if you add hot water to a gas container under pressure the pressure will increase. I hope you also understand that water is still water if it is a gas, liquid or solid.

If I am missing something or my logic is somehow flawed, please point it out... I come here for fun not to have some question what I "obviously" have or have not taken. If you want to debate the topic, feel free... but no need to be rude about it.

Jonnio said:

Mythbusters did an episode where they pressure tested standard 5gal water bottles and they held 95 psi. I would guess a better bottle could do the same, so if you stay under 30 or so it should be doable.

Either way though, I would rig something and have it at the end of a 50' air hose. If it works your better bottle is fixed. If it doesn't you have a $25 firecracker.

Click to expand...

Even at 30 psi it can hurt you. Try calculating how many pounds of air would be in the carboy. That's 30 lbs/sq inch times the amount of cubic inches in a carboy. You should fill the carboy with warm water at least 75% full, THEN put 30 psi on it. Much safer!