I have issues...

I've been brewing for about two and a half years, and it feels like I'm consistently making worse beer every time I brew. Here are some of the most current problems. I recently brewed what I intended to be a porter, and I have a couple of issues with it. Tonight I racked the beer over to the secondary and took a gravity reading, as well as a preliminary taste test. The FG was 1.020, but according to the calculator on tastybrew.com, it should have been around 1.013. Thoughts on why my FG was so high? Should I use a yeast nutrient to ensure total fermentation? Second problem, the beer had hardly any body. For grins, I cracked open a PBR for comparison, and oddly enough, the PBR had a better mouthfeel (it's a long story why I have PBR in the house). I've had problems achieving the body that I want for beer, but this was just too light. Also, according to tastybrew.com I used enough hops, but I can't taste or smell them-all I get is the sweet aroma and taste of malt. I'm including the recipe here for everyone to peruse:

6.6 lbs Nortwestern Gold LME
.5 lbs crystal malt
.25 lbs belgian chocolate malt
.125 oz black patent malt
1 oz Willamette hops-60 min, 4.2%
1 oz East Kent Goldings hops-5 min, 4.0%

Thank you, everyone, for whatever advice you have to offer, I really appreciate it.

I am confused... it finished at 1.020 and it has no body... man that beer should have all sorts of body. I have had a couple instances, when I was new, where I mashed at a high temp and got alot of unfermentables... Id say make starters, aerate well... and well... that should do it. I am not a big advocate of yeast nutrient.

Well, there's a reason PBR keeps winning the blue ribbon.

But it's not mouthfeel...it's the hair more hops they add over the rest.

I made the presumption you used dark crystal. I also made the presumption of 75% attenuation. Here's what Beertools pulled up:

[size=+2]Hoffmeister's Porter[/size]
[size=+1]12-B Robust Porter[/size]



Size: 5.06 gal
Efficiency: 75.0%
Attenuation: 75.0%
Calories: 212.15 per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.064 (1.048 - 1.065)
|======================#=========|
Terminal Gravity: 1.016 (1.012 - 1.016)
|=======================#========|
Color: 23.9 (22.0 - 35.0)
|==========#=====================|
Alcohol: 6.27% (4.8% - 6.0%)
|===========================#====|
Bitterness: 15.95 (25.0 - 50.0)
|==#=============================|

[size=+1]Ingredients:[/size]
6.6 lbs Gold Dry
.25 lbs Belgian Chocolate Malt
.125 lbs British Black Patent
1 oz Willamette (4.2%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
1 oz East Kent Goldings (4%) - added during boil, boiled 5 min
.5 lbs British Dark Crystal


[size=-1]Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.0.28[/size]

One thing to keep in mind is that with a darker beer, hop utilization will change, and the stronger, darker malt character will mask the hops as well. Meaning, 30IBU Pale ale will have much more noticeable hoppiness than a 30IBU Porter. For one, yours comes up at about 15IBU. That's low no matter what kind of porter you're trying to make. I'd have added the EKG's at 15min at least. As far as the gravity goes, remember about 75% of fermentation will happen in the primary, and another 25% or so will happen in the secondary. You should still be able to get to your 1.013. Body will have a lot to do with unfermentable sugars. How long did you steep the grains, at what temp, etc. You could add something like carapils or flaked barley if you want to add more body easily.

I hope that helps...but more details would help us help you .

hoffmeister said:

I've been brewing for about two and a half years, and it feels like I'm consistently making worse beer every time I brew. Here are some of the most current problems. I recently brewed what I intended to be a porter, and I have a couple of issues with it. Tonight I racked the beer over to the secondary and took a gravity reading, as well as a preliminary taste test. The FG was 1.020, but according to the calculator on tastybrew.com, it should have been around 1.013. Thoughts on why my FG was so high? Should I use a yeast nutrient to ensure total fermentation? Second problem, the beer had hardly any body. For grins, I cracked open a PBR for comparison, and oddly enough, the PBR had a better mouthfeel (it's a long story why I have PBR in the house). I've had problems achieving the body that I want for beer, but this was just too light. Also, according to tastybrew.com I used enough hops, but I can't taste or smell them-all I get is the sweet aroma and taste of malt. I'm including the recipe here for everyone to peruse:

6.6 lbs Nortwestern Gold LME
.5 lbs crystal malt
.25 lbs belgian chocolate malt
.125 oz black patent malt
1 oz Willamette hops-60 min, 4.2%
1 oz East Kent Goldings hops-5 min, 4.0%

Thank you, everyone, for whatever advice you have to offer, I really appreciate it.

Click to expand...

You really didn't use a ton of hops compared to your malt/grain bill and though the Eas Kent hops should have shown through some, the Willamette hops were just your bittering hops and wouldn't really give you any aroma.

If you're looking for more hops aroma and taste, you really should do a lighter ale because the darker ales aren't supposed to have that and the malty flavor of those darker beers really does cover up the hops.

More mouth feel ... I would suggest steeping some dextrin and possibly even some oatmeal with your partial mash. Both the dextrin and oatmeal will give it some unfermentable sugars and proteins.

Also, try attending a local brew club (Urban Knaves of Grain) and bringing your beer there. Some of them maybe able to pinpoint the problems much better.

Here's my thoughts...

1) the high FG could be caused by insufficient aeration, a higher OG (I cannot say since you didn't post any info on it) than the recipe called for, or simply the fact that extract has some unfermentable sugars in it (I find 65% attenuation is about as good as I get with extract).

2) not sure why you're not getting any body, the black patent malt may be a contributing factor and is not really appropriate for a Porter.

3) as for the hops, ProMash indicates an IBU of only 7 for these hop additions so I am not surprised you could not detect them. Your bittering hop really needs to be something higher in AA% (like Northern Brewer or Target). Also, flavor hops need to be added to the boil with 15 or 20 minutes remaining, anything in the last 5 minutes will provide aroma only.

Anyway, that's what I think your problems are. Maybe make some brews from existing recipes for a while to get back on the saddle. I'd also suggest picking up Designing Great Beers and downloading some brewing software to help in recipe formulation.

you were also tasting a flat, warm beer versus (I assume) a cold and carbonated PBR...flat beer always tastes thin.

warm flat beer never seems to have enough body to my mouth...carb it, and its a whole different story.

porter's aren't particularly hoppy beers, and the IBU's in that calculated recipe confirm what you taste...not a lot of bitterness...more roasted malt flavor.
personally that's what I like in a porter.

carapils flaked oats or barley or adding a little wheat to your recipe will give you batter head retention and mouthfeel

i add wheat to most of my beers for just that reason...when it's appropriate

Thank you everyone for all of your suggestions. I did (accidentally) leave out some info, but here it is. This was an extract beer, using Liquid Malt Extract, but I did use some specialty grains. I started with the grains in 2.5 gallons of cold (75*) water and let the temp rise to 150-155*. I let it steep there for half an hour, monitoring the temp so it didn't vary too much. After half an hour, I turned the heat back on, pulled the grains at 165*, and proceeded as usual. As of pitching, my OG was 1.050. Maybe I'm relying on tastybrew.com too much, but that site had my IBUs figured at 24. I know porters aren't supposed to have much hop bitterness or hop aroma, but I was hoping for a little at least.

Thank you all again for the suggestions. I think I'm going to have to invest in some real brewing software in the near future. I'm going to take JadedDog's advice and go with some tried and true recipes for a little while before venturing off on my own again, just to reaffirm that I can make good beer. I really appreciate the feedback, you've convinced me to keep brewing!

Yeah, I ran the recipe through Beer Smith, and it gives an IBU of 17, which (if the neat IBU/OG graph is correct) is almost to the point of off the chart of drinkability. With an OG of 1.059 (Beersmith) or 1.064 (Beer Tools), the MINIMUM you'd want is 20, which is still what is considered 'Extra Malty.'

I just saw that you reposted your OG of 1.050, which falls directly into the Extra Malty side of the graph.


Even the Style Guidelines put a minimum of 25 (to a max of 55) IBU to the style.

Also - Did you change the default AA% on the hops when you added them in tastybrew? I noticed that your Willamette were almost 1.3% AA less than what both Beer Smith and TastyBrew list of the hop AA.

sounds like malty goodness to me

I did adjust the default AA % on tastybrew when I was figuring out my recipe, but I'm getting the impression more and more that that's not a very reliable/accurate site. What jezter6 has worked out seems closer to what my beer actually is-very malty, with hops practically off the scale on the low end.

Should I just scrap this batch, or should I wait and see what happens to it after bottling?

so it's not to style, it'll probably still be good! don't scrap it. if you don't like it, you can send me a case

...Thanks DeathBrewer, I'll keep that in mind.
I'll keep you posted on how things turn out in a few weeks.