Hop Stopper first use = not happy

So, I recently received my Hop Stopper from Dennis (Innovative Homebrew Solutions) and brewed with it today. I am not happy.

I brewed a Stone IRS clone. I did a 90 min boil and only used 1.6oz of Warrior pellets @ 90min and a whirlfloc tablet at 13 mins. As soon as the boil was done, I killed the flame, and had already hooked up my tubing to the pump -> therminator. I opened the valve on my kettle, primed the pump, turned the pump on, and out came the perfectly cooled wort (this was my first time using my therminator so it was super cool to see in action). Unfortunately as soon as it got to just under the opening where the dip tube connects to the kettle, it stopped the flow and I couldn't get it going again. As such, I had to stop the pump, and rig up a funnel + paint strainer and just pour the remainder HOT wort directly into my carboy. It's now been sitting for a few hours in my chest freezer trying to get down to pitching temps.

What did I do wrong? I did a test run with water yesterday and it drained within 8oz of my kettle which was awesome....but apparently 1.6oz is enough to clog and stop the Hop Stopper. It's supposed to be able to handle over 26oz so wtf?

Does anyone else have a Hop Stopper and mind commenting? Is there a particular trick to make this not happen? I've emailed Dennis, so hopefully he has some feedback, but I'm not very pleased. After reading all the great reviews on this site and the electricbrewery website, I was stoked to get this. It did a great job of filtering until it clogged, but clogging before I've drained my kettle is completely unacceptable.

Please help!

--julian

Whirlfloc creates a lot of break material, the wire mesh gets clogged with break & hop pellet gunk. I built one of the Hop Stopper like devices and used it once before tossing into the scrap pile. I use a false bottom (leaf hops) and a fine mesh bag for pellets, zero clog issues.

Hrm, yeah but whirlfloc/irish moss is kind of a common thing to add to beers. I would have assumed that with this addition clogging wouldn't be an issue as compared to the 26oz hop test that the Hop Stopper went through. Also, I'm not confident it would have worked without the whirlfloc...

But yeah, I'm not so happy with this thing. I'm leaning towards either trying the Blichmann Hop Blocker and/or the Blichmann flase bottom with nylon mesh bags for my hops (does that affect your utilization?)

Do you use a false bottom when using pellet hops too as an added filter or only for leaf hops?

Thanks for the reply!

I use the FB for all hops, now since I've switched to BIAB the FB keeps the bag off the heating element. I mostly use leaf hops but when I do use pellets I've not noticed any hop utilization issues.

sounds like you lost siphon.. are you sure the spot where your diptube connects to the kettle is airtight?

bruin_ale said:

sounds like you lost siphon.. are you sure the spot where your diptube connects to the kettle is airtight?

Click to expand...

Well I connected the metal ring that came with the blichmann diptube to the end of the Hop Stopper tube (same size) and slid it in...so I'm fairly certain it was...although maybe not. The weight of the Hop Stopper did pull it down a bit....do you think this was the cause? How would I fix this?

EDIT: scratch all that. It's airtight even with it sagging down a bit, because I did a test yesterday with just water and it drained within 8oz.

Were you recirculating? That's a no no if you are. The cold break will plug it up. I've been using mine and it works well. It also helps not to drain wide open if possible.


_

wildwest450 said:

Were you recirculating? That's a no no if you are. The cold break will plug it up. I've been using mine and it works well. It also helps not to drain wide open if possible.


_

Click to expand...

I was draining with the valve on my kettle wide open, but regulating the flow via the valve on the pump outlet. Also, I was not recirculating. I just killed the flame, opened the valve and started chilling immediately.

julian81 said:

EDIT: scratch all that. It's airtight even with it sagging down a bit, because I did a test yesterday with just water and it drained within 8oz.

Click to expand...

That's not necessarily true.. even if it's not airtight it can continue draining, but once you put some restriction on it (ie. a bunch of pellet hops), the loss of siphon becomes too much and it won't drain anymore.

It's going to be obvious if you look at the hop stopper and all the pores of the mesh are clogged then you know what happened. If they are not clogged then I could agree with the loss of siphon or other issues.

samc said:

It's going to be obvious if you look at the hop stopper and all the pores of the mesh are clogged then you know what happened. If they are not clogged then I could agree with the loss of siphon or other issues.

Click to expand...

Yup, pretty much all the pores were clogged. Apparently it should still let liquid through though. I watched a video where it drained through hops caked on over 2" thick over the hop stopper...

You need to slow the output out of the pump to almost nothing from what I read

milldoggy said:

You need to slow the output out of the pump to almost nothing from what I read

Click to expand...

No, that's not right, then the flow is TOO SLOW and it cools it way too much. I read that the water flow has to be full, and you regulate the wort flow only. If I have a minimal flow going it cools it way too efficiently, I need to send it through faster...

Seriously, how are other people filtering their hops before going into a plate chiller? I mean directly from the kettle. There's GOT to be a better way that actually works...

julian81 said:

No, that's not right, then the flow is TOO SLOW and it cools it way too much. I read that the water flow has to be full, and you regulate the wort flow only. If I have a minimal flow going it cools it way too efficiently, I need to send it through faster...

Seriously, how are other people filtering their hops before going into a plate chiller? I mean directly from the kettle. There's GOT to be a better way that actually works...

Click to expand...

Well it's only going to chill to the temp of the water at best. Yes, the water should be full blast and you regulate the wort speed into the chiller....as for filtering I use muslin hop bags in the BK. I also use Whirlfloc and never had a problem with clogging. Have you tried using muslin hop bags?

Newbeerguy said:

Well it's only going to chill to the temp of the water at best. Yes, the water should be full blast and you regulate the wort speed into the chiller....as for filtering I use muslin hop bags in the BK. I also use Whirlfloc and never had a problem with clogging. Have you tried using muslin hop bags?

Click to expand...

Not in the boil, but I have for dry hopping. The whole point of the hop stopper though is to not have to use hop bags, muslin or nylon mesh or whatever, and just allow the hops to circulate freely in the boil. If I'm going to use hop bags, I don't really need the hop stopper and it's a waste of money. Ideally I'd like to figure out why it failed to drain all the way.

julian81 said:

No, that's not right, then the flow is TOO SLOW and it cools it way too much. I read that the water flow has to be full, and you regulate the wort flow only. If I have a minimal flow going it cools it way too efficiently, I need to send it through faster...

Seriously, how are other people filtering their hops before going into a plate chiller? I mean directly from the kettle. There's GOT to be a better way that actually works...

Click to expand...

Well, I wouldn't just say "that's not right" like you just did, because the fact is, he's actually pretty correct. The more suction you apply to the wort, the more likely it is to get plugged. This is actually the exact same thing that often causes stuck sparges. I don't know where you heard that the water flow can't be adjusted - it most certainly can, or else plate chillers would rarely ever even work, since everybody has a different flow rate coming out of their faucet. It needs to be sufficient to remain turbulent, but it can still be dialed down a bit. And if you're chilling with an actual faucet, you can bump up the water temp a bit instead to achieve the same effect.

Since you have a pump, you can also chill while recirculating the wort instead of chilling while transferring to the fermenter, allowing you reduce wort flow while maintaining maximum water flow, and simply turning off the water completely once the wort in the kettle reaches pitching temp, at which point you can just pump the already-cooled wort out of the kettle, while keeping it at a reduced flow. And if you experiment a bit with the angle the wort recirculates back into the kettle at, you can create a nice whirlpool resulting in a trub cone far better than people are able to achieve by stirring.

If none of that sounds like it's worth trying, I use the Blichmann Hop Blocker and have never had an issue. The two-stage design is pretty brilliant IMO.

I've actually modeled most of my setup after The Electric Brewery so far, with the two main differences being that I instead went with the Blichmann Hop Blocker (obviously), which wasn't even out when Kal built his system, but it seemed like a fantastic design to me (and now I can confirm that!)1, as well as the Blichmann Therminator instead of the counterflow chiller he uses, since his particular concerns with it seemed trivial, I can cool more quickly with it, and it takes up so little space that I can even boil it if I want. Oh, and I live in Canada (though so does he) and got them both on sale 10% off, so they ended up being cheaper than ordering + shipping his particular choices from their American retailers (since they're both custom items), and being able to get the Blichmann stuff for cheaper totally clinched it for me.

Thanks emjay.

I've never had a stuck sparge and I use the same method. As soon as my mash is done, I open the valve slowly, until it's full bore and then I regulate the flow via the pump outlet valve. Never had an issue 10 brews later...including this one. I did the same when it came to draining the kettle after the boil, but it failed me.

I guess I will try the hop stopper again with the same brew, and try throttling the kettle valve down instead of opening it full bore. I gotta say I'm really not that confident it will change anything and I'm not looking forward to having to "fix" it like I did today. It extended my brew day by about 3-4hours just waiting for the carboy to cool until I could pitch.

I'm leaning towards purchasing the Blichmann Hop Blocker to be honest, especially after your comment above.

Are you guys that are using the Hop Stopper getting both sides caked up with debris?

This is what mine looked like on the top and bottom after I had drained the remaining wort manually.

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/2479/hopstoppertop.jpg
http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/8671/hopstopperbottom.jpg

samc said:

I use the FB for all hops, now since I've switched to BIAB the FB keeps the bag off the heating element. I mostly use leaf hops but when I do use pellets I've not noticed any hop utilization issues.

Click to expand...

I looked around in your posts, but can't find a pic of your FB. Does it just sit right over the element? And....did you DIY?

ScubaSteve said:

I looked around in your posts, but can't find a pic of your FB. Does it just sit right over the element? And....did you DIY?

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from MoreBeer, only DIY was to cut the inside leg to allow room to fit over the element.

I don't use a hop stopper, I use a hop spider. On my forth batch with a kal clone and no problems. I even recirc till 70, then I transfer into the carboy at full tilt on my chuggers.

I use a metal scrunchie. Does wonders for 2 bucks!

ElevenBrewCo said:

I use a metal scrunchie. Does wonders for 2 bucks!

Click to expand...

covering the dip tube? it doesn't clog up?

julian81 said:

covering the dip tube? it doesn't clog up?

Click to expand...

That'll work for leaf hops, but not for pellets.

bruin_ale said:

That'll work for leaf hops, but not for pellets.

Click to expand...

I works fine with pellet hops. Ive haf no issues with it at all.

ElevenBrewCo said:

I works fine with pellet hops. Ive haf no issues with it at all.

Click to expand...

interesting.. do most of the pellets make it through into the fermenter? I had mine clog using just leaf hops, so abandoned the scrubby after one or two uses.

bruin_ale said:

sounds like you lost siphon.. are you sure the spot where your diptube connects to the kettle is airtight?

Click to expand...

Sound like the issue may be here make sure that fitting is tight as can be

brewtime said:

Sound like the issue may be here make sure that fitting is tight as can be

Click to expand...

Well I ran a test with water the day before, and it worked no problem, drained to within 8oz remaining in the kettle.

Then again there was no hops and debris weighing it down, and the diptube is a bit too long for my kettle so it's kind of a forceful process getting the hop stopper into my Blichmann 10 gal...which also means the hop stopper isn't centered. But still, this all worked with water.

I'm going to try cutting the dip tube so that I can center the hop stopper in the kettle easier, hopefully then it will be 1) centered and 2) keep the hop stopper from sagging down, and possibly causing me to not have an airtight seal, losing siphon.

I'm going to try this first before returning it for the Hop Blocker. I'm not sure what else I can do...failing that, it simply is clogging and not working as advertised.

bruin_ale said:

interesting.. do most of the pellets make it through into the fermenter? I had mine clog using just leaf hops, so abandoned the scrubby after one or two uses.

Click to expand...

None do. I mean dont get me wrong it does cover the hole scrunchy with hop residue. I have half inch lines with a chugger pump and i never lose suction

ElevenBrewCo said:

None do. I mean dont get me wrong it does cover the hole scrunchy with hop residue. I have half inch lines with a chugger pump and i never lose suction

Click to expand...

Are you using a Blichmann kettle by any chance? I'm curious to know whether this might work for me on the blichmann dip tube. I'm also using 1/2" silicone tubing and a March pump...

The reason you have to slow the flow down towards the end of the drain is that the hop debris built up on the screen slows how fast wort can drain into the interior of the pocket. If the wort level hits the screen height and you pump all of the wort out of the interior, you suck air and lose prime on the pump. You have to close off the valve on the output of the pump to nearly a trickle just before your wort hits the height of the top of the screen. If you feel like the slowed flow is going to overchill the wort, dial your coolant down slower also.

julian81 said:

Are you using a Blichmann kettle by any chance? I'm curious to know whether this might work for me on the blichmann dip tube. I'm also using 1/2" silicone tubing and a March pump...

Click to expand...

No ive got a sanke keg set up with copper pick up tube. Il take a pic of my set up so you can see what mine looks like

What Bobby said sounds accurate to your problem and or possibly not having a tight fit on the dip tube as well. I just wanted to chime in and say I have one too and it is by far one of the best investments I've made. I did as much as 6oz of hops and never had any issues with the hop stopper. Heck, I even used it for bottling when I dry hop at times.

Come to think of it, I think the Boilermaker is your problem......I'll give you $200 for it

Bobby_M said:

The reason you have to slow the flow down towards the end of the drain is that the hop debris built up on the screen slows how fast wort can drain into the interior of the pocket. If the wort level hits the screen height and you pump all of the wort out of the interior, you suck air and lose prime on the pump. You have to close off the valve on the output of the pump to nearly a trickle just before your wort hits the height of the top of the screen. If you feel like the slowed flow is going to overchill the wort, dial your coolant down slower also.

Click to expand...

OK well I definitely have a few things to try. One of my concerns is the dip tube that the Hop Stopper came with doesn't have the machined groove in it like the blichmann one does so it doesn't "click" into place with the O-ring in the bulkhead. It's just a smooth surface so it provides for more wiggle. That being said, I'm going to cut the dip tube so it's centered more, try to whirlpool a bit after boil and before draining, and then slow the output down like you've suggested. If none of this solves the problem, I'm going to return the Hop Stopper and probably try the Hop Blocker next.

Cardog said:

What Bobby said sounds accurate to your problem and or possibly not having a tight fit on the dip tube as well. I just wanted to chime in and say I have one too and it is by far one of the best investments I've made. I did as much as 6oz of hops and never had any issues with the hop stopper. Heck, I even used it for bottling when I dry hop at times.

Come to think of it, I think the Boilermaker is your problem......I'll give you $200 for it

Click to expand...

Haha, that's OK But yeah, I just replied to Bobby's reply, and noted that there is some "wiggle" with the hop stopper due to not having the machined groove in it like the blichmann dip tube has.

Does your hop stopper rest on the bottom of your kettle or is it slightly elevated? Because from what I can tell the mesh of the hop stopper rests on the bottom of the kettle, and so the dip tube isn't that far from the kettle floor...unlike the blichmann dip tube which is 3/8" above the floor.

Ok, if the dip tube is the problem then here is what you need to make sure of. The groove (imho) is not a deal killer. I would venture to say that you did not mount the coller from the Blichmann dip tube on to the hopstopper. This is more important than the groove. If you didn't, you must install that coller. It is the round clamp that is pinched tighten with the allen screw. This does 3things when properly installed.

1) it provides a depth setting so the when pushed in all the way, the groove will align with the o-ring.

2) because it has a dowel on the top (roll pin) it positions the dip tube straigh up and down.

3) and this may be the main reason for your troubles. It will keep the dip tube perfectly centered in the port so it does NOT wiggle, hang, etc. Keep in mind the Boilermaker does not provide a compression fitting here. This is why that coller is so important.

Now, my guess is that your dip tube on the hopstopper was NOT made at the correct height. If it were perfect, then the dip tube should be perfectly centered in the port as the other end it rests on the bottom of the pot. And I would venture to say that once you install that coller,than the hopstopper will not rest on the bottome like it actually should (mine does). Therefore the weight of the hopstopper may tug down on it. I would suspect a forgiving tolerence though.

Btw, the hopstopper resting on the bottom of the pot will not cause any kind of plugging. If you carefully at the end of the dip tube (inside the screen) you will see a notch cut out at the end of it.

Let me know if this helps.

Cardog said:

Ok, if the dip tube is the problem then here is what you need to make sure of. The groove (imho) is not a deal killer. I would venture to say that you did not mount the coller from the Blichmann dip tube on to the hopstopper. This is more important than the groove. If you didn't, you must install that coller. It is the round clamp that is pinched tighten with the allen screw. This does 3things when properly installed.

1) it provides a depth setting so the when pushed in all the way, the groove will align with the o-ring.

2) because it has a dowel on the top (roll pin) it positions the dip tube straigh up and down.

3) and this may be the main reason for your troubles. It will keep the dip tube perfectly centered in the port so it does NOT wiggle, hang, etc. Keep in mind the Boilermaker does not provide a compression fitting here. This is why that coller is so important.

Now, my guess is that your dip tube on the hopstopper was NOT made at the correct height. If it were perfect, then the dip tube should be perfectly centered in the port as the other end it rests on the bottom of the pot. And I would venture to say that once you install that coller,than the hopstopper will not rest on the bottome like it actually should (mine does). Therefore the weight of the hopstopper may tug down on it. I would suspect a forgiving tolerence though.

Btw, the hopstopper resting on the bottom of the pot will not cause any kind of plugging. If you carefully at the end of the dip tube (inside the screen) you will see a notch cut out at the end of it.

Let me know if this helps.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the detailed response Cardog.

I did in fact mount the Blichmann collar onto the Hop Stopper dip tube. I followed the HS instructions to the tee. But, like I said the HS dip tube is way longer than it needs to be for my kettle. I need to cut it to fit right, but have no way of cutting stainless steel, so not sure how I'm going to do it. But the collar is installed and tightened...

A hack saw will get through it.

Cool, I'll try a hacksaw...if I can't get my local sheet metal shop to cut it for me...

I have a homemade hop stopper, and it has worked great until 2 brews ago. I lost my siphon. I think over time the fit of the pickup tube into the kettle fitting finally got to the point where once the filter got a little plugged, air got in that joint and I lost my siphon. I replaced the fitting on the kettle and adjusted the fit on the pickup so it puts less strain on the fitting. I also use a hose clamp. It does help to tighten the fit (copper tubing and fittings). Last batch worked flawlessly.

I used to recirculate back to the kettle (plate chiller) but after 10 min or so the filter would start to clog. I now use a "grant" for my hot wort. I gravity feed the hot wort into a modified corny. It takes about 5 min. Then I cool and recirculate back to the corny. All of the hot break and hop debris are left in the kettle so I don't have to worry about clogging my plate chiller, and I can pump at full throttle with no issues. Plus it can double as a hopback.