Attempting 40%+ ABV beer... "Barley Brandy"

I wonder how much it would cost to get the ABV lab-tested. Given the highly experimental nature of this beast, be interesting to know where it landed.

Yeah, my game plan is to see how much ice I can pull out of it and then go with the tried and true 'light it on fire' trick.

If it'll hold a flame, I know I am where I want to be and have achieved my goal of 40+ ABV (or at least reeeeeeally close to it) and if I can get it there... I will def send it off to a lab if the cost isn't insane.

Cape Brewing said:

... the tried and true 'light it on fire' trick.

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That's gonna be epic!

Make sure you evacuate the wife and kids first...

If the lab cost IS insane, you could always add small, measured amounts of an uber-high proof spirit until you do get it to light. You could then back into your starting ABV.

Analyzing it shouldn't be hard. Do you live near a University? Go to the chem dept and talk to a professor and tell them about your project most will be curious enough to help out and its not hard to run a quick sample through a mass spectrometer. Id also be curious as to the methanol content of your beer. Normal beer has negligible amounts of methanol but as you concentrate ethanol you are also concentrating methanol.

The methanol topic has been brought up and debunked on this thread a couple of times.

I don't see it as a problem. I know I am way over-simplifying it but the way I get my brain around it is by asking how much methanol is in a normal " high ABV " beer? I then ask myself if I would die from methanol poisoning if I drank a few of those beers quickly. I doubt it. I don't see the difference here between drinking a couple high ABV beers and concentrating one into triple strength.

the_bird said:

I wonder how much it would cost to get the ABV lab-tested. Given the highly experimental nature of this beast, be interesting to know where it landed.

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It is $24 through White Labs per sample. I would check with a university first though. Worth a shot. You may be able to get it done free by sharing your beer.

Cape Brewing said:

The methanol topic has been brought up and debunked on this thread a couple of times.

I don't see it as a problem. I know I am way over-simplifying it but the way I get my brain around it is by asking how much methanol is in a normal " high ABV " beer? I then ask myself if I would die from methanol poisoning if I drank a few of those beers quickly. I doubt it. I don't see the difference here between drinking a couple high ABV beers and concentrating one into triple strength.

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The methanol talk is ridiculous. The only way it would probably harm you is if you drink a bunch of foreshots off a still, in large quantities. Your logic is correct.

Needs moar pics!

ericd said:

Needs moar pics!

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fiiiiiiiiiine... here is a pic.

This is a pic of the strainer bag hanging over the pot. That pot was full to within about an inch of the top and you can tell from the frost line that it is about half full after the ice is pulled out.

If I let that bag hang there for a few minutes, it drained clearer and clearer until the ice was really pretty white.

One little note... that pic is a little deceiving because it looks a little like one big chunk and it isn't at all. The sides froze up first only because, I think, the bag gave the ice crystals a starting point in terms of where to form so I got a ton of little tiny sheets of ice crystals all along the edges of the pot, stuck to the strainer bag and then the center had a few ice crystals in it as well but that is, by NO means, just a big chunk of ice. That is a pile of razor thin ice crystals/sheets piled into the bag and stuck to the bag itself from forming along the edges.

Wow, so I just jumped into this thread and took way too much time reading probably 50% of the posts and have to say this is awesome! I'll admit, the first time I read about concentrating beer through freezing I thought about something like this just to see how it worked but never had the balls to go through with it. Way to go!

cmybeer said:

Wow, so I just jumped into this thread and took way too much time reading probably 50% of the posts and have to say this is awesome! I'll admit, the first time I read about concentrating beer through freezing I thought about something like this just to see how it worked but never had the balls to go through with it. Way to go!

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Oh, come on, we don't need someone to feed Cape's ego any more than it is...

homebeerbrewer said:

Oh, come on, we don't need someone to feed Cape's ego any more than it is...

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But this is pretty awesome, next group buy I'm making sure I have enough grain to try his out.

homebeerbrewer said:

Oh, come on, we don't need someone to feed Cape's ego any more than it is...

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Cape finished something other than a pint! I think his ego deserves an eggo.

Cape Brewing said:

One little note... that pic is a little deceiving because it looks a little like one big chunk and it isn't at all. The sides froze up first only because, I think, the bag gave the ice crystals blahblahblah

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uh, you're freezing from the outside. you aren't removing heat from the center. coldest spot is going to be the edges. warmest will be the center.

also, i already told you how to get it tested. in this thread.

Yeah... But I ignore you. Often.

I can't believe I just read the whole thing.

Wow, you wasted a lot of time. Not much work today?

dawgman said:

I can't believe I just read the whole thing.

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I laud your effort. It's important to read the whole thread though, to fully appreciate that it is a miracle that Cape actually was able to pull it off. In fact he is likely lying. We'll have to get confirmation from one of his fellow Massholes before we can sign off on the project.

bottlebomber said:

I laud your effort. It's important to read the whole thread though, to fully appreciate that it is a miracle that Cape actually was able to pull it off. In fact he is likely lying. We'll have to get confirmation from one of his fellow Massholes before we can sign off on the project.

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I don't want written confirmation. Those guys are all in it together. I demand a bottle be sent to me for testing.

SittingDuck said:

I don't want written confirmation. Those guys are all in it together. I demand a bottle be sent to me for testing.

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I dunno about you, but with all the crap I've been talking if Cape sent me a little brown bottle I'm sure as hell not going to drink whatever's inside

bottlebomber said:

I dunno about you, but with all the crap I've been talking if Cape sent me a little brown bottle I'm sure as hell not going to drink whatever's inside

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Yeah, but I have been quietly supportive.

Well, I think so anyway. I'm not reading back through this whole thread to see.

TheBreweryUnderground said:

But this is pretty awesome, next group buy I'm making sure I have enough grain to try his out.

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Check your name.... looks like its trademarked.

BrewinBigD said:

Check your name.... looks like its trademarked.

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But I'm the only one who brews underground!!!

It's not exactly the same though, maybe I could get away with it.

... I really don't think anyone's going to care, unless you try to present yourself as the brewery.

I'm still waiting on Home Depot to contact me...

I got a cease-and-desist from Norm Abrams, but I gave him a sixer and now we're cool.

I wonder how many sixers I'd have to give out if HD sent me a cease and desist. Norm is one guy, HD is a big corporation.

Batch #3 is in the freezer went in the freezer last night and I'll pull the ice out tonight and then repeat. It's gonna take me a week to get it done as I can only do about a gallon at a time.

Like I was saying the other day, once I get through all of these gallon batches, I am hoping to have about four gallons left (cutting the current 8 in half).

After that, I'll do the same thing again and run those four gallons through and see if I get any more ice crystals.

If I DON'T get any more ice crystals, I'm not 100% sure what I'll do. One thought I had before was to pack a pot full of the beer in a cooler packed in dry ice. I might still try that but I am concerned about how long dry ice would keep in a cooler like that.

I'm wondering if the dry ice would evaoporate before the beer froze in any meaningful way.

We'll see. The experiment continues.

Keep a little bit aside as-is, so that you can compare the beer that's been freeze-concentrated once versus beer that's been freeze concentrated twice. Maybe even keep a couple bottles of the beer before it was frozen at all. Be interesting to compare the progession.

The dry ice will be good, at the lab I used to work in we'd keep it in coolers for a week at a time, just make sure you have plenty of it. And get the heat transfer fluid as cold as you can first. And if you use acetone check it won't dissolve your cooler, it will dissolve some plastics.

Dry ice will last 30+ hrs in a decent igloo cooler with insulated top, exterior temps and dry ice size depending. I've seen some last longer, some less. Figure Omaha steaks (and others) ship frozen steaks cross country in the middle of the summer...and it isn't always shipped overnight.

You'd have to watch the freezing point though- You are very close to the freezing point of alcohol with dry Ice. I'm guessing some of the flavor compounds could be frozen in the ice and left behind. I don't think that is what you are after. Maybe closely watching it thaw would prevent that?

Batch four just went in the freezer.

On the dry ice issue, it has been my experience that it lasts much longer in heavy-duty styrofoam than plastic. It should last more than long enough.

We'll see if I need it. I am taking out a fair amount of volume with the first freezing. I don't think I'll need to take out much more to get where I want to be. We'll see

I know it's a silly question but, can the temperature controller on your chest freezer go any lower? After you finish this batch, maybe crank that sucker to "11" and give it a shot?

Unless you already have it maxed out. If that's the case, and you want to come up to Portland and share a few samples, I have access to some liquid Argon...

Just sayin'...

I got it cranked down as far as it'll go. It goes down to -8.

Argon you say, huh?

Well, it's inert and cold (-185 C), we could probably get the excess water frozen out pretty quickly.

We use it for a plasma torch in one of the instruments at work.

Although though if you're freezing a lot of water out over the course of a day or so, maybe the next round just needs to sit longer.

Can't wait to see what happens! (and let me know if you want to give some cryogens a try )

D0ug said:

Well, it's inert and cold (-185 C)

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Haha, that would freeze everything though, including alcohol, malt compounds, hop acids, hell, etc.