welding
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BendBrewer
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Buy a SS pot. You need to weld like metals.
Or go with weldless fittings. That's what I did.
And yeah, where did you get aluminum kegs?
Or go with weldless fittings. That's what I did.
And yeah, where did you get aluminum kegs?
phidelt1499
Well-Known Member
Yeah, if you're 100% they're aluminum, then weldless might be your best bet. I haven't come across aluminum couplings.
BendBrewer
Well-Known Member
Yeah, commercial kegs are SS.
Take it somewhere else.
Take it somewhere else.
ScubaSteve
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Yeah, if your welder can't identify SS by looking at it/hefting it, maybe you should go somewhere else?
That being said, TIG with 100% Argon would be the commonly preferred method. If you're sure you're going electric, you can solder the fittings in and the joints will still be plenty strong/beautiful.
That being said, TIG with 100% Argon would be the commonly preferred method. If you're sure you're going electric, you can solder the fittings in and the joints will still be plenty strong/beautiful.
Yep, TIG your fittings in,
DE TIG at 75A, 24pulse per second, 50% pulse on time, 20A background, 100% argon at about 15cfm flow rate. But then again what do I know.
That is just what I like to use. Watch out because you can overheat with that much current/duty cycle.
MAKE SURE YOU BACK-PURGE.
DE TIG at 75A, 24pulse per second, 50% pulse on time, 20A background, 100% argon at about 15cfm flow rate. But then again what do I know.
That is just what I like to use. Watch out because you can overheat with that much current/duty cycle.
MAKE SURE YOU BACK-PURGE.
I was thinking about learning how to weld...not anymore. My god that sounds confusing lol
well there's learning to weld...and learning to weld sanitary fittings for brewing. Welding on an exhaust pipe for your car is something completely different from welding something that needs to be sanitary so you don't create a home for bugs
Here you go...
http://www.mcmaster.com/#aluminum-pipe-fittings-and-pipe/=c92zkc
If your kegs happen to be Aluminum they can be made into bk's, mlt's, hlt's with fittings in Aluminum. The trick is finding the right welder to do the job right. Finding a good welder is like winning a raffle. Chances are your gonna lose.
Skilled trades are dying, so good luck.
I was looking just to learn how to weld for a brewing bench but I would also need sanitary welds on my keggles. Man this gets more confusing the more I know. I'll just bring my projects to a welding shop.
Well I hope that I didn't scare you away from welding. TIG welding is very easy. However, figuring out the correct settings is a completely different game. I just saved you an entire evening by telling you what my machine is currently set at.
I wouldn't say that I am a great welder compared to most, but I love doing it and that is all that matters to me.
I wouldn't say that I am a great welder compared to most, but I love doing it and that is all that matters to me.
I would say go ahead and learn to weld now on your bench - there's no way it'd be 'bad' enough such that the thing would not be useable, it just may not look pretty. and frankly...who cares, paint it 
building a bench is a GREAT way to start learning to weld. No better time than now! Then you can take your kegs to get sanitary welded...no problem.
building a bench is a GREAT way to start learning to weld. No better time than now! Then you can take your kegs to get sanitary welded...no problem.Mellman said:I would say go ahead and learn to weld now on your bench - there's no way it'd be 'bad' enough such that the thing would not be useable, it just may not look pretty. and frankly...who cares, paint it
You think tig or mig? Will any weld shop be able to do sanitary welding
TIG is great, MIG is cheaper. For most of your needs you'll likely be fine with MIG, it just comes down to what you're going to be welding other than your steel brewstand...
Mellman said:
I would probably just be welding brew stands and welding stuff to the brew stand. Nothing real fancy. Welding copper to copper can be down with a torch (I think ) so nothing crazy there
ratfarmer
Well-Known Member
See if a refrigerator magnet will stick to your keg. A buddy of mine kept telling me that my kegs were aluminum so we made a bet. I grabbed a hard drive magnet off of my kegerator and tossed it onto the side of the keg where it stuck! I won the bet!
Most stainless steel isn't magnetic. I didn't think kegs were made of magnetic stainless.
Not at all.
Finding a welder that can do stainless might not be hard, finding one that can and does often weld food processing equipment will be extremely tough.
Basically food processing equipment is welded with little to no weld penetration on the inside of the equipment that food will be in contact with, and with smooth transitions between the welds and the equipment or piping being joined.
The goal is to eliminate any protrusions or crevices that would allow food or bacteria from collecting in the equipment.
It also allows the equipment to be cleaned easier.
It's much easier to put too much weld in the root of a welded joint than to control precisely the amount needed to produce a flush weld with little to no penetration.
GreatWetNorth
Well-Known Member
I don't mean to nitpick, but I have one small issue with this. I agree with everything else, but I wouldn't exactly say that you want "little to no weld penetration on the inside of the equipment". For me, penetration is on the inside of the joint, not the surface of the weld, and you always want adequate penetration. You definitely don't want any undercut or ugly, lumpy welds, as those would leave the protrusions and crevices that you mentioned. I guess I just would have phrased that first sentence a little differently.
And as for learning to weld and doing sanitary welds, none of it is rocket surgery, but it does take practice, as well as knowing and following certain procedures. Whether it's MIG, TIG or Stick (or even oxy-acetalene), you have to know the proper techniques, then take the time to actually perform them. And because there's a physical skill involved, everyone will learn at a different pace, and some guys might be better at one process than another. Give it a try, stick with it for a little while and see where you end up.
In my mind, the difference between sanitary welding and regular welding is not necessarily even in the welding itself; it's it the preparation and the procedure. Expanding on what clay said, you could probably even find a muffler shop that will TIG stainless for you but they probably won't be set up for back-purging, the work area probably won't be terribly clean and they'll be used to welding to a different standard than what you're looking for. Call some welding shops and listen not just to what they say, but how they say it. If a guy is willing to listen to what you have to say, and talks about things like cleanliness, tight fit-up and back-purging, he might be worth a try. On the other hand, if you talk to a guy and he comes across as stand-offish and doesn't want to listen to you and seems like he knows everything, you may want to pass.
GreatWetNorth said:
That's an excellent way of putting it. A lot of people don't listen to how people say things. First of all, without knowing about sanitary welding I would never have known. Secondly, its good to have some terms to listen for to know the welder might have a better idea of sanitary welding over another place.
Possibly wording that differently may have eliminated any confusion.
When I say little to no, what is meant is that the root of the weld should be flush with the inside of the walls, or very minimal weld protrusion.
I guess I assumed being a welder for so long that people understood my explanation. My bad.
I totally agree with the above statement.
A lot of welders think they know more than they actually do.
If you run into one of those characters, turn around and leave.
And by the way GreatWetNorth, don't you know it's wrong to correct your elders?
here is a weld i did practicing with some new welding fixtures. i havent cleaned the weld with anything yet in this picture. there is absolutely zero weld showing on the inside. you cannot even feel the seam with your finger, silky smooth.
i was proud of it till i showed it to my welder friend. What looks perfect to the eye looks horrid under microsope. He said it would never pass inspection but it was a good start.
here is a weld i did practicing with some new welding fixtures. i havent cleaned the weld with anything yet in this picture. there is absolutely zero weld showing on the inside. you cannot even feel the seam with your finger, silky smooth.
i was proud of it till i showed it to my welder friend. What looks perfect to the eye looks horrid under microsope. He said it would never pass inspection but it was a good start.
In my line of work, microscopes are not used to look for defects.
Xray, dye pen, ultrasonic, and eddy current testing are done.
A microscope would only show defects on the surface of a weld.
Xray, ultrasonic, and eddy current can detect or show defects under the surface not seen by the eyes.
There are several code standards that welds are made to.
Some are more stringent than others, so you might still have made a code weld.
Keep up the good work.
ScubaSteve
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Well, don't you micropolish the inside anyway? Seems like that would remove a majority of the rough spots.......
Let's face it, if you're using a microscope, then every little scratch is going to show up!
Let's face it, if you're using a microscope, then every little scratch is going to show up!
So I found a place that specializes in food and pharmacy grade sanitary welding. I told him what I was doing and he said he didn't know if he could weld inside the keg. I don't think he realized it would be open. But anyway, he said to bring in a keg and he will check it out. Fingers crossed. It sounds promisig since this is what they specialize in. The guy I talked to was extremely nice
Komodo
Well-Known Member
Bingo.
+1 what ScubaSteve said . . .if you had a less than perfect weld, can't you grind/polish whatever on the inside to make it cleaner? I'm not saying it's optimal . .but with all the scrounging brewers do, I've often wondered this.
+1 what ScubaSteve said . . .if you had a less than perfect weld, can't you grind/polish whatever on the inside to make it cleaner? I'm not saying it's optimal . .but with all the scrounging brewers do, I've often wondered this.
Talked to my welder again today and he is positive that the kegs are aluminum. He tried to stick several different magnets to the kegs and also took it to a couple of his welding buddies and they all confirmed they are indeed aluminum. Has anyone herd of this and what can i do expect for weldless fittings. I have already bought all the weld fittings.
ScubaSteve
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Magnets don't always stick to stainless. Depends on the composition of the metal. Kegs *can* be made from aluminum, but you don't see it too often. They are usually made of 304 SS, which is non-magnetic, unless machined or work hardened in a particular way. Aluminum just can't take the beating that SS can....especially in a full 165 lb keg...so it's kind of a bad choice for a pressure vessel!
Something that I've noticed about *some, NOT ALL* welders ...they can often be stubborn and even hotheaded. Just go read a bit on forums like weldingweb or millerwelds. Maybe you should get a second opinion (and not from his friends!).
I'd hate to see you sell those kegs only to find out that they WERE stainless....and have to spend the time hunting down replacements.
Something that I've noticed about *some, NOT ALL* welders ...they can often be stubborn and even hotheaded. Just go read a bit on forums like weldingweb or millerwelds. Maybe you should get a second opinion (and not from his friends!).
I'd hate to see you sell those kegs only to find out that they WERE stainless....and have to spend the time hunting down replacements.
dutchoven
Well-Known Member
Take a file to the keg. Find an edge near the handle holes. If its aluminum, you'll be able to take off quite a bit of metal easily. I'd be surprised if your kegs are aluminum.
Yeah right, tell him to get a big deadblow mallet and try and actually dent the handle collar. Or, pick them up and notice that they're not light.
It's stainless, unless you got some super wacky kegs.
e: to clarify, stainless kegs are unbelievably strong. They manage to get rolled around and banged up and dropped off trucks and handle it perfectly. They're so strong that if you get one to turn into a kettle, it's almost impossible to get dents out, especially if you want to reform the top or bottom.
Material must be prepared correctly, purged from the back side. Welds should have no sugaring, no discoloration of the weld area. Complete fusion of welds with no porosity, cracks, crevices etc. No excessive weld build up. Welds should blend in smoothly with the base material.
Welds can be ground smooth, and polished if the profile is unacceptable.
For homebrewing purposes it's not absolutely critical.
No, not many welders are "good" at tigging stainless and fewer know how to weld to sanitary specifications.
Welds can be ground smooth, and polished if the profile is unacceptable.
For homebrewing purposes it's not absolutely critical.
No, not many welders are "good" at tigging stainless and fewer know how to weld to sanitary specifications.
