Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different

What was the approximate temperature that your rice alcohol was fermenting? If it fermented too high it could have activated the bacteria in the balls causing the sour/tart flavor. I'm no expert and maybe someone else more experienced can interject.

Fermented at an average of 70 to 75 ( only have window air conditioners) temp varies a bit. Seems like the yeast didn't convert the sugars very much it's so sweet . Still drank all but an inch out of the bottle. Maybe I will add some yeast to see if it converts the sugars or maybe it's too acidic an environment for them to thrive. IDK.

Hey all, newbie to brewing here, started my rice wine batch about two weeks ago. Thai jasmine, 3 cups, 1:1 water, 75-80 ferment temp (it's hot here). Had some mold growing but it seems to have disappeared as of a week ago. Smells sweet and alcoholic, and began to bubble like crazy just yesterday - I hope the cheesecloth is enough space for all that CO2 to vent! I'm planning on running some tests (ABV, characterizing particulates) and culturing the balls on agar once fermentation is complete. Thanks sonofgrok for the idea!

I'd be interested in what the lab says the ABV ends up at.

Frame125 said:

Not sure if this is how it's supposed to be ( never had rice wine elsewhere) or if I did stuff wrong. If it wasn't so sweet then it would be too tart, but that sugar should have been converted IMO to alcohol
Maybe add different yeast with the balls like in makgeolli home brews I have seen.

Ideas?

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My first (and so far only) batch I followed the basic instructions and ended up with something that tasted like sweet liquid yogurt, so that's not really out of the ordinary.

I let the bottles sit for a week or two so the white "crud" would settle out and it ended up tasting significantly less sweet and sour (still definitely present, though) and more like sake. I still have the second bottle from that batch which is now 8 months old, so perhaps I'll find out soon what it's like when it's aged and every possible bit of white crud has settled out.

The sourness is due to lactic acid bacteria in the yeast balls, the most surefire way to inhibit that activity is to ferment at very low temps (50F I think?) to inhibit the bacteria. Unfortunately that's not within my powers.

For the sweetness I'm not entirely sure if the sugars converted by the molds in the yeast balls are 100% fermentable. If so, getting a drier product is simply a process of waiting longer... though it may need to be diluted with water to get it back into an ABV range the yeast can handle. Makgeolli for example tastes a lot drier, using a similar process to yeast ball rice wine, but using a whole lot more water.

I've never heard of anyone adding yeast along with yeast balls, but it sounds kinda interesting. Yeast is added to makgeolli because nuruk doesn't actually have any significant amount of yeast in it and merely "mashes" the rice along with contributing some lactic acid bacteria.

Speaking of makgeolli, you might want to go ahead and make some just to try it out. It ferments very quickly, being ready in only a week, and has a unique earthy-grainy flavour from the nuruk.

553 pages and have really enjoyed it ,been making rice wine and makgeolli off and on for 40 yrs and I have learned a lot I didn't know from here. I got started in 1969-1970 in the army while in Korea .Thanks to Sonofgrok and all the other people who contribution.

jmiraclejrr said:

553 pages and have really enjoyed it ,been making rice wine and makgeolli off and on for 40 yrs and I have learned a lot I didn't know from here. I got started in 1969-1970 in the army while in Korea .Thanks to Sonofgrok and all the other people who contribution.

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Thank you for your service!

You did not say how much rice to cook 2 cups? 3 cups?
You used 2 yeast balls and said your rice cooker holds 2 cups
is that what I need? 1 1/2 or 2 cups?
thanks:fro:

Grapevine44 said:

You did not say how much rice to cook 2 cups? 3 cups?
You used 2 yeast balls and said your rice cooker holds 2 cups
is that what I need? 1 1/2 or 2 cups?
thanks:fro:

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My typical recipe is 3 cups (dry) rice. Cooked like normal and then cooled. To this I add 2 crushed yeast balls and mix it all up. This is usually enough to fill my one gallon glass jar (looks like an old fashioned cookie jar) and still have enough to fill a small mason jar. I then cover with cheese cloth and rubber band and let it sit for about 45 days and sometimes longer.

After fermenting, I strain it and get enough wine to fill a few large wine bottles. I squeeze every drop I can and never separate the clear from cloudy. Seems to last for a good long time if you pasturize it.

Hmm, my last batch didn't turn out too great (yet). I used 7 cups dry glutenous rice steamed well, 2 dry yeast balls, and a large ball of leftover rice-yeast from my previous batch. Liquefaction seemed to go okay after the first week but then it just stalled. I never saw the rice rise up on a pool of bubbling liquid like the last batches, but there definitely was liquid and the typical sake smell. I waited a ridiculous 2.5 months (mainly because I just lost track of time) and it never really got any further, but nor did it ever form any weird growths or smell or taste at all vinegary.

I squeezed out 1600 ml of cloudy liquid from the 7 c batch. Smell: like sake but mild. Taste: extremely sweet, no alcohol bite whatsoever. Too syrupy to drink straight, but might make a nice mixer.

I've decided to go ahead and toss some Premier Cuvee champagne yeast in now and see if it can take the fermentation further. Not sure if I should also crush up a Beano tab or use some amylase enzyme assuming the cloudy rice water hasn't converted fully...

Lessons learned:
Reusing the old batch of rice didn't hurt anything, but it also seems like it wasn't enough to fully convert or ferment the amount of rice I had. I think one problem was that I couldn't really spread the ball through the rice very well at all being wet vs powderizing the hard balls. Also, even though the volume looked like a lot to me, it would probably have been much smaller had I tried the rice ball out before using. So next time, I would use more dry balls as well.

eigua said:

Hmm, my last batch didn't turn out too great (yet). I used 7 cups dry glutenous rice steamed well, 2 dry yeast balls, and a large ball of leftover rice-yeast from my previous batch. Liquefaction seemed to go okay after the first week but then it just stalled. I never saw the rice rise up on a pool of bubbling liquid like the last batches, but there definitely was liquid and the typical sake smell. I waited a ridiculous 2.5 months (mainly because I just lost track of time) and it never really got any further, but nor did it ever form any weird growths or smell or taste at all vinegary.

I squeezed out 1600 ml of cloudy liquid from the 7 c batch. Smell: like sake but mild. Taste: extremely sweet, no alcohol bite whatsoever. Too syrupy to drink straight, but might make a nice mixer.

I've decided to go ahead and toss some Premier Cuvee champagne yeast in now and see if it can take the fermentation further.

Lessons learned:
Reusing the old batch of rice didn't hurt anything, but it also seems like it wasn't enough to fully convert or ferment the amount of rice I had. I think one problem was that I couldn't really spread the ball through the rice very well at all being wet vs powderizing the hard balls. So next time, I would use more dry balls as well.

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Never had any luck using the lees, not worth it in my opinion.

But you like me had to try it, I tried multiple ways but never got the good results, experiment if you wish, I never had anything undrinkable but it's best to use fresh balls each time

"Never had any luck using the lees, not worth it in my opinion."

Yes, reusing lees does provide yeast, but doesn't provide much of the other required ingredients. The starch may not have fully converted to sugar for the yeast to act on.

brooklynkayak said:

"Never had any luck using the lees, not worth it in my opinion."

Yes, reusing lees does provide yeast, but doesn't provide much of the other required ingredients. The starch may not have fully converted to sugar for the yeast to act on.

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It should. The other ingredient is mold which is responsible for converting the starch to sugar. If the sweetness of the liquid is any indication, it definitely did convert starches to sugar. But neither the starch conversion nor the fermentation seems as complete as it could be. If anything, the starch conversion went much further than the fermentation. And from what I've read elsewhere, the dried balls they sell are just dried lees from industrial-scale rice wine production. I probably just needed a lot more and a way to spread it through the rice properly like when it's powderized.

eigua said:

It should. The other ingredient is mold which is responsible for converting the starch to sugar. If the sweetness of the liquid is any indication, it definitely did convert starches to sugar. But neither the starch conversion nor the fermentation seems as complete as it could be. If anything, the starch conversion went much further than the fermentation. And from what I've read elsewhere, the dried balls they sell are just dried lees from industrial-scale rice wine production. I probably just needed a lot more and a way to spread it through the rice properly like when it's powderized.

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Have fun

Harvested at exactly 3 weeks. Tasting notes: smell reminiscent of rice vinegar without vinegar notes. Very sweet, almost syrupy, some alcohol burn. Very complex tangy flavor and aftertaste. I'm not sure I like it as it is, but it's tolerable, and feels potent already.

Couldn't get any lab testing done, but played with equipment I had at home. pH came out to 3.66. SG of solution was 1.082 (!!!) and even after boiling off 50 mL did not change. I'm going to reintroduce some yeast ball powder and hope to ferment it dry before retrying the measurement, cause there's definitely alcohol in the mix but the solution may be too dense to work with as it stands.

After reading 100+ pages I finally got around to trying this on my own. Picked up some sushi rice and when I asked for yeast balls and showed a picture, they said they didn't have it and sold me this instead.



So, I've got two cups in the seamer now and when it's done I'll put it in the jar with a tablespoon of this "yeast" and see what it does.

Scout said:

After reading 100+ pages I finally got around to trying this on my own. Picked up some sushi rice and when I asked for yeast balls and showed a picture, they said they didn't have it and sold me this instead.



So, I've got two cups in the seamer now and when it's done I'll put it in the jar with a tablespoon of this "yeast" and see what it does.

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Please let us know how this turns out. It looks like tiny rocks. Where did you pick this up? Was it expensive?

ChefRex said:

Have fun

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That's the whole point of homebrewing, afterall!

It came from the local oriental market and cost about $5. Right now I have about a tablespoon and a half mixed in with two dry cups of sushi rice.

Posts 1551 and 1563 may be related to this stuff I bought? I'll look into it more when I have time.

eigua said:

It should. The other ingredient is mold which is responsible for converting the starch to sugar. If the sweetness of the liquid is any indication, it definitely did convert starches to sugar. But neither the starch conversion nor the fermentation seems as complete as it could be. If anything, the starch conversion went much further than the fermentation. And from what I've read elsewhere, the dried balls they sell are just dried lees from industrial-scale rice wine production. I probably just needed a lot more and a way to spread it through the rice properly like when it's powderized.

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Followup:

So I could not get Champagne yeast to grow at all. Now I'm thinking I may have been mistaken about the alcohol content. Tasting a small sample, it's not alcohol hot but it does give a quick buzz. I'm thinking now that I did indeed get both adequate starch conversion and fermentation, and the reason why it seems so different to me than my previous batches is that I steamed and cooled the sticky rice instead of using a rice cooker, leaving much less water content in rice and translating into a more concentrated drink. The extra sweetness I'm attributing to unfermented sugars, but not because the yeast didn't ferment properly, but because the alcohol content already reached yeast tolerance limits while still leaving a significant amount of unfermented sugar behind. I'm theorizing had I added more water, I would have been able to squeeze more alcohol out of the same amount of sticky rice since it would have lowered the ABV preventing the yeast from dying off too soon.

Scout said:

After reading 100+ pages I finally got around to trying this on my own. Picked up some sushi rice and when I asked for yeast balls and showed a picture, they said they didn't have it and sold me this instead.



So, I've got two cups in the seamer now and when it's done I'll put it in the jar with a tablespoon of this "yeast" and see what it does.

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This is nuruk, you can use it to make makgeolli. The procedure is pretty similar to yeast ball rice wine, but you will need to add your own yeast (so the label is incredibly misleading). On the plus side, it will probably finish much quicker, the usual recipe finishes in a week but it might take longer following the rice wine recipe where no water is added. I'm still not sure exactly what's in nuruk but I believe it's already got some amylase in it to convert starches.

Also, I decided to finally open my last bottle of a 100% glutinous rice batch I made at the beginning of the year (so ~8 months of aging) and, holy hell, it tastes amazing. It doesn't even taste like sake anymore, it's more like a sort of low ABV whisky, it's hard to describe. It's clear yellow and the white crud has settled to the bottom entirely and I decided to not shake it up. Compared to ~1 week after bottling (tasted like alcoholic yogurt) and even 1 month (sweet + sour sake) this is absolutely amazing, and I strongly suggest anyone making it to try to be patient and let it age for several months.

That explains why I got lots of mold but no liquid.
I tried another store for yeast balls but no luck. I may have to order some from Jak.

Bought some RYR and yeast balls from Jak1010 today. Maybe the RYR and "yeast" I have will ferment into something?

Scout said:

Bought some RYR and yeast balls from Jak1010 today. Maybe the RYR and "yeast" I have will ferment into something?

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RYR is just another type of mold grown on rice grains. What you most likely need is to add actual yeast. I would imagine any old wine or champagne yeast would do.

Strange though... This guide to making makgeolli doesn't mention using any other yeast.

Edit: I think I misunderstood you. I thought you were talking about adding RYR to the big bag of nuruk. If you got the "yeast" balls now, they will get the job done all by themselves. You can also add RYR if you like. It will make a wine that's a little fruiter. I prefer it without the RYR.

I've looked up nuruk, and have found differing posts on what exactly is in it. Right now after two weeks I have lost of mold, but no liquid.
Yes, I was thinking of adding rye to the nuruk and seeing what happens. Probably just a cup or two of sushi rice.

Been lurking for awhile and finally decided to post.

My grandma has been making fermented rice for a long time, so I just took her recipe, but let it ferment longer (she usually just waits a week, we normally eat it rice and all as a dessert).
I cooked 3 cups of rice in the rice cooker and added in Angel Rice Leaven along with a spoonful of sugar when the rice was lukewarm, kept it in the oven with the light on for a few days and then on my counter it's been for 14 days now.

I was kind of nervous, being my first time making this, and because the best I could do was wash everything with hot soapy water twice- no pot big enough to boil my equipment.

I have to say, it tastes much better than the rice wine I am used to. After fermenting it longer, it is a lot more flavourful. I have been checking daily (I know, it increases contamination risks, but I was worried that it would turn too strong if I didn't stop fermentation in time). Aside from the increase in ethanol - it's also become very fruity, a little vanilla-y and it is still sweet and rice flavoured. I'm still going to wait a bit longer before pasteurizing though, it is still a tad sweet for my taste.

I know a lot of people wait for day 21 at rt... My question- has anyone noticed a difference (improvement?) in taste if left to ferment in the fridge for a bit longer than 21 days, compared to 21 days at a warmer temperature? How much does fermentation slow down in the fridge, has anyone tried this? Also, anyone have a record/graph or something of estimated alcohol content vs day? I know it probably varies a bit, but I'm just curious about a rough estimate. I don't have a hydrometer or anything to measure it myself

cuisinechemist said:

Also, anyone have a record/graph or something of estimated alcohol content vs day? I know it probably varies a bit, but I'm just curious about a rough estimate. I don't have a hydrometer or anything to measure it myself

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Nobody really knows the alcohol content. You cannot use a hydrometer to measure it because you're not starting with a liquid but rather solid rice.

eigua said:

Nobody really knows the alcohol content. You cannot use a hydrometer to measure it because you're not starting with a liquid but rather solid rice.

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Ah I see, I just looked up how those worked. I am new to winemaking, and not too familiar with how ABV is usually measured at all

Maybe I will try titrating the final product... if I ever find myself with nothing better to do and need to kill some time, and if the curiosity really kills me... has anyone tried that?

Yesterday I dumped out the mass of moldy sushi rice that was in my jar and began batch #2. Four cups sushi rice, one cup ryr, and 1 yeast ball. I'm going to pop it open n in three days and taste the rice, but just a spoonful or two. Thanks to Jak1010 for the eBay sales.

Tasted it again, day 17. It's not as sweet and fruity as it was a few days ago, so I put it in the fridge. It tastes better now (maybe because it is cold) but still not as good as it was... I liked it sweet and fruity, now it tastes a little more bland... should I pasteurize it or let it go longer at room temp?
Or keep it in the fridge without pasteurizing?
I'm thinking maybe if it stays at room temperature eventually the amylase will keep breaking down the sugars after the alcohol production stops and give me something sweeter... and perhaps help with producing more flavours (hopefully good ones)? Again, a total newbie at all of this.

Scout said:

Yesterday I dumped out the mass of moldy sushi rice that was in my jar and began batch #2. Four cups sushi rice, one cup ryr, and 1 yeast ball. I'm going to pop it open n in three days and taste the rice, but just a spoonful or two. Thanks to Jak1010 for the eBay sales.

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Four cups dry rice might need more than 1 yeast ball. I would use 2. Some people use a lot more. 1 cup RYR is a lot more than I used. I'm curious to hear how it comes out.

cuisinechemist said:

Tasted it again, day 17. It's not as sweet and fruity as it was a few days ago, so I put it in the fridge. It tastes better now (maybe because it is cold) but still not as good as it was... I liked it sweet and fruity, now it tastes a little more bland... should I pasteurize it or let it go longer at room temp?
Or keep it in the fridge without pasteurizing?
I'm thinking maybe if it stays at room temperature eventually the amylase will keep breaking down the sugars after the alcohol production stops and give me something sweeter... and perhaps help with producing more flavours (hopefully good ones)? Again, a total newbie at all of this.

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I don't know what would happen if you tried to continue at room temp. You might get more starch conversion, but you may also get more fermentation yielding a higher ABV. If you just want to make it sweeter, you could always add sugar/juice/rice syrup and then keep it in the fridge or pasteurize depending on how long you want to keep it around for.

I've only made 6 batches so far (well 5, one failed), but none were done in only 17 days. Even at 21 I didn't feel like it was as finished as it could be. I then did one batch at 30 days, one at like 50 days, and one at 78 days. My favorite was the rice-cooker broken jasmine rice batch at 50 days. The steamed glutenous rice at 78 days was extremely sweet. But if there's anything to learn from my batches, I think it's that this stuff can ferment a very long time before turning vinegary provided you're good with sanitation (and I'm not even that great).

eigua said:

Four cups dry rice might need more than 1 yeast ball. I would use 2. Some people use a lot more. 1 cup RYR is a lot more than I used. I'm curious to hear how it comes out.

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Agreed. My batches were 2 yeast balls for every 4 cups of rice. Also, I usually use about 1/4 cup of RYR at the most for any batch.

With an entire cup of RYR, it'll probably end up being similar to a red wine like Cab or Merlot.

I'd suggest adding another crushed yeast ball. It's not too late. Just crush one up and mix it in with a sterilized spoon.

Either way, let us know how this turns out.

eigua said:

I don't know what would happen if you tried to continue at room temp. You might get more starch conversion, but you may also get more fermentation yielding a higher ABV. If you just want to make it sweeter, you could always add sugar/juice/rice syrup and then keep it in the fridge or pasteurize depending on how long you want to keep it around for.

I've only made 6 batches so far (well 5, one failed), but none were done in only 17 days. Even at 21 I didn't feel like it was as finished as it could be. I then did one batch at 30 days, one at like 50 days, and one at 78 days. My favorite was the rice-cooker broken jasmine rice batch at 50 days. The steamed glutenous rice at 78 days was extremely sweet. But if there's anything to learn from my batches, I think it's that this stuff can ferment a very long time before turning vinegary provided you're good with sanitation (and I'm not even that great).

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I'd like it around for a couple of weeks at least. It's sweet enough, I just have a sweet tooth. But I was also hoping for more flavour. Right now I can taste sweet, alcohol, and some rice but it's not as fruity as it was before which is the main thing. Not sure if sugar would help in that case. I suppose I could try juice...

It's certainly not turning sour (I kind of like it a little tart though) but it's good to know that it takes a while to turn sour. Thanks for sharing your experiences. I've never made this before; when my grandma does she ferments for a much shorter period because she doesn't want it too alcoholic. What kind of temperature do you keep yours at?
It's been pretty hot here lately, perhaps rt is not the correct description... I think we are hitting closer to 30*C.

cuisinechemist said:

I'd like it around for a couple of weeks at least. It's sweet enough, I just have a sweet tooth. But I was also hoping for more flavour. Right now I can taste sweet, alcohol, and some rice but it's not as fruity as it was before which is the main thing. Not sure if sugar would help in that case. I suppose I could try juice...

It's certainly not turning sour (I kind of like it a little tart though) but it's good to know that it takes a while to turn sour. Thanks for sharing your experiences. I've never made this before; when my grandma does she ferments for a much shorter period because she doesn't want it too alcoholic. What kind of temperature do you keep yours at?
It's been pretty hot here lately, perhaps rt is not the correct description... I think we are hitting closer to 30*C.

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There shouldn't be any need to pasteurize for such a short expected shelf life.

I don't watch temps really but it's usually around 70 F (21 C) in here.

One thing I have noticed is that it seems to have more flavor if you don't separate out the cloudy rice particles.

New problem. So I left it in the fridge for a bit and I swear it tastes like ethyl acetate. I can't really smell nail polish, but it has that banana-ey flavour. This worries me, what should I do now?

It was tasting pretty good around day 14 ish

Edit: Compared it to a bottle of ethyl acetate from the lab. definitely ethyl acetate, maybe some other esters too

I think I've asked the question before, is white mold with a tinge of pink still ok? It's been 5 days and almost full liquid but like syrup, sweet and that slight bitterness from the mold. Just curios that the cake at the top which has a slight pink color is still ok to drink. Also when do I squeeze this and do I keep the cap of mold or do I pull this off the top?

danmerk23 said:

I think I've asked the question before, is white mold with a tinge of pink still ok? It's been 5 days and almost full liquid but like syrup, sweet and that slight bitterness from the mold. Just curios that the cake at the top which has a slight pink color is still ok to drink. Also when do I squeeze this and do I keep the cap of mold or do I pull this off the top?

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It's fine, relax, I'll scoop as much of the solids off as I can and drain the liquid off, I strain and never squeeze but I like it cleared not cloudy.
I made this quite a few times and have never had a bad batch, it's very forgiving

OK, after reading about half this post I am sold lol. I have my yeast balls ordered from E-bay and bought a bag of jasmine rice this morning. I gave $4.50 for 4 balls shipping included, if anyone knows of a cheaper online place to buy them let me know please.

johns455 said:

OK, after reading about half this post I am sold lol. I have my yeast balls ordered from E-bay and bought a bag of jasmine rice this morning. I gave $4.50 for 4 balls shipping included, if anyone knows of a cheaper online place to buy them let me know please.

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There are so many selling on ebay. But it sounds like you got a fair deal. The best way is to try local asian markets.

After trying 3 of the ones local to me (searching for hours) I determined there was no chance. I even tried to ask them to order them for me but none were able to or interested in doing so.

After that, I turned to ebay. So much easier than spending hours searching the stores. What type did you get?