Espresso brewers, roasters, lovers...

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Also... Nostalgia... on your video I noticed that your filter basket is much different than mine.

Mine I guess is called a "pressure filter" where it has one tiny hole for an outlet. Apparently this helps to produce foam, so my crema, may not be crema at all!
 
The Pol said:
So... do you guys drink your espresso shots STRAIGHT much?
Click to expand...
Generally I drink black Americanos (long black for the Aussies in the house ;) ), adding 4-6oz of water from the boiler to my shot. If I'm drinking in the evening or tasting coffees for the first time, I'll do a straight up espresso shot.

Honestly if I were in your position, Pol, I'd upgrade the grinder and just use your machine for a while. If I found I was running out of steam (literally) when doing milk drinks or unhappy with your results, only then would I consider upgrading. If you feel you're getting inconsistent results when you do the same thing, for example, it could be the machine can't give you consistent pressure or temp pour after pour. But you can't know that without pulling oodles of delicious shots :)

-Joe
 
The Pol said:
Mine I guess is called a "pressure filter" where it has one tiny hole for an outlet. Apparently this helps to produce foam, so my crema, may not be crema at all!
Click to expand...
Ah! If you have a pressurized portafilter, that's another animal entirely. It's got a crema disc that actually whips air into the shot to make crema - like a sparkler on a beer engine.

Not considered the best mojo for getting a great shot, and will definitely mask a bad one.

-Joe
 
The Pol said:
Also... Nostalgia... on your video I noticed that your filter basket is much different than mine.

Mine I guess is called a "pressure filter" where it has one tiny hole for an outlet. Apparently this helps to produce foam, so my crema, may not be crema at all!
Click to expand...

Aw man Pol, this way lies madness. The only people crazier than Espresso Brewers are AG Brewers. Oh, too late.

One thing about those pressure filters. When using those it is not really appropriate to use the same judging criteria as with a non-pressure filter. Fact is they extend the length of the shot exponentially because they provide artificial resistance to the pump. So you don't know whether it is the grind, the portafilter, or what combo of the two that you are seeing.

As far as your question about the Silvia. Without doubt if your budget allows for it the Silvia is well worth the cash. The only thing low end about it is the price. It has a big boiler and an E61 group. It is a home workhorse. There are prettier units out there, there are higher end units out there but as far as shot quality it is excellent.

I have (well had, I sold it recently when I closed the office) a $5K GS3 at my office that I use for tasting and . . . well nevermind, it is not fair to compare the two, but I still love my Silvia.

I've also used a Gaggia Classic with excellent results.

Oh, plus 1 for Americanos for casual coffee drinking and straight shots for evaluating crops and roast levels.
 
That Jura looks pretty badass. I don't think anyone's going to look down on you for it ;)

Boerderij_Kabouter said:
That is pretty awesome... any how to's or pointers for someone who has never done it?

Can I do that with my espresso crema?
Click to expand...
You should be able to. I'm far from an expert, but here's what I've learned so far:

- I don't like using a thermometer. It invariably doesn't react fast enough, plus different milks will need different amounts of stretching. What's stretching? Whipping air into the milk to make it fluffier.

- You want smooth microfoam. You do not want big soap bubbles, you do not want hard Starbucks-esque foam.

- Start by stretching the cold milk. Put the tip of the wand just below the surface and open the steam valve all the way. Now lower the pitcher to "surf" the tip of the wand on the milk. This part takes the second most practice. You want it to barely break the surface so you hear ch-ch-ch-ch-ch, not one long SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, which will make big fat soap bubbles.

- When you've stretched enough (I shoot for about 20-25% expansion of the milk), you submerge the wand to make a whirlpool, to whip the unfoamed milk in with the foamed and create a smooth mix.

- I stop just after the outside of the pitcher is hot enough to burn my fingers.

- Pouring takes the most practice. You want a smooth pour. The milk should start drawing on the crema when the tip of the pitcher is almost touching the crema. You want it to almost slide out onto the surface of the crema.

- Different milks will steam and pour differently. I've had the best success with 2% milk. YMMV, depending on your steam wand as well.

- Watch Youtube videos to see how fast other people pour and what designs you can make. My pours usually start out pretty fast to get some volume up, then slow down once the crema rises and gets close to the spout so I'm drawing.

Maybe I'll take a better video if I can find a few free minutes this weekend.

-Joe
 
This is the problem... I mean the length of the shot and the crema will tell me a lot about my grind, beans... I mean, it will help me to qualify what I am doing.

If I have a pressure filter, which will basically langthen the shot and whip foam into the espresso, aside from taste (yah yah) how the hell do I know what is going on?

I have been oggling the Silvia and Rancilio Rocky over at SM for a couple days... literally.

I mean it is hard to qualify how good my grind is with the current filter setup.

I dont know what to do, I need to chillax... I am having a gadget moment.
 
The Pol said:
If I have a pressure filter, which will basically langthen the shot and whip foam into the espresso, aside from taste (yah yah) how the hell do I know what is going on?
Click to expand...
Yes, my apologies for dispensing "keep the machine for now" advice without asking :)

There are some machines you can turn into an unpressurized portafilter by removing all of the pressurized stuff and using a regular basket. I wonder if yous is like that?

-Joe
 
nostalgia said:
Yes, my apologies for dispensing "keep the machine for now" advice without asking :)

There are some machines you can turn into an unpressurized portafilter by removing all of the pressurized stuff and using a regular basket. I wonder if yous is like that?

-Joe
Click to expand...

Dont know where to start.
 
The Pol said:
This is the problem... I mean the length of the shot and the crema will tell me a lot about my grind, beans... I mean, it will help me to qualify what I am doing.

If I have a pressure filter, which will basically langthen the shot and whip foam into the espresso, aside from taste (yah yah) how the hell do I know what is going on?

I have been oggling the Silvia and Rancilio Rocky over at SM for a couple days... literally.

I mean it is hard to qualify how good my grind is with the current filter setup.

I dont know what to do, I need to chillax... I am having a gadget moment.
Click to expand...

I went through the exact same thing. I bought a mid ground machine that got rid of the pressure filter and was able to pull a decent shot one out of 4 times with it and my $150 Maestro Plus grinder. But aw man, that one shot in 4 was frickin ambrosia. Sweet and chocolately, almost syrupy with no bitterness at all. Just head and shoulders above anything I could buy at any coffee shop.

Try doing ristrettos. Don't look at the pour. Do it by quantity. Use your double basket, grind as fine as possible, tamp hard, and then pull exactly 1.5 ounces, whether that takes 30 seconds or 12 seconds. This will produce the sweetest shots from your machine.

There is also something called temp surfing. This is where you time the shot based on the boiler on/off light. You can try it at the high point in the cycle - when the boiler just turns off, or at the low point in the cycle - when the boiler just turns on. See which tastes best. Obviously,per scientific method , just change one variable per test.
 
I am now officially obsessed and scouring the internet looking at expresso machines, grinders, and roasters. Pol, I am definitely having a gadget moment as well! Look what you guys have done :D

Need. To. Pull. Myself. Away. From. Computer!
 
Screw it $800 for a Silvia and a Rancilio, why not, might as well.
 
The Pol said:
Screw it $800 for a Silvia and a Rancilio, why not, might as well.
Click to expand...

Awesome! I much prefer the doserless Rocky. If you are pulling lots of shots daily then you might want the doser model.

Auber sells a PID kit for Silvia that is much cheaper than other places I have seen. I know you'd have no problem installing it, but they were great when I had questions.
 
Plus, make sure you order a nice heavy 58 mm tamper with the Silvia. You will be sad without it. And you might as well get a bottomless portafilter. I forget where I bought mine but it was a reasonable price and well worth every penny.

EDIT: Here is a link which contains the Bottomless Portafilter for Rancilio http://www.cafeparts.com/listCategoriesAndProducts.asp
 
Yay! One more joins the dark side :D

Good luck with it and post pictures!

Good advice from dontman on the tamper and bottomless PF. You can usually get the latter thrown in by most vendors, so be sure to ask.

As for doser, I prefer one, even for just 1-2 shots a day. It's a lot easier to clean accumulated coffee from the chute where it comes out so you don't have stale coffee sitting in there.

-Joe
 
I thought the doser would be cool, but have seen and read why others really prefer not to have the doser.

QUESTION. What exactly is a bottomless portafilter? Is that like Bottomless Well Drinks? :tank:
 
If you look for espresso porn on youtube or coffeegeek you will see many photos or videos of shots being pulled and you can see that there is no spout on the portafilter. In fact the entire bottom portion has been surgically removed to reveal the shot in all its glory.
 
Got it, that is sexxy...

OKAY, so what do you all think about the Gaggia Classic? Baby? New Baby? As opposed to the Rancilio Silvia?

Just curious.
 
I have a new found appreciation for Latte and a reason to drink a lot of it. I don't have a steamer pitcher because of the design of my machine. I now need to buy one... today.

I was doing latte art yesterday with my daughters milk measuring cup because it was the only suitably sized vessel I have with a pointy spout.

I managed to make a lame looking Christmas tree like shape... pretty bad but I am already hooked.
 
Boerderij_Kabouter said:
I managed to make a lame looking Christmas tree like shape... pretty bad but I am already hooked.
Click to expand...
That's how it begins :D

test2.jpg


-Joe
 
Hey Pol,

I know I'm chiming in a bit late, but this Christmas the SWMBO and I decided we wanted to start making our own espresso beverages rather than buying them from the "Man", so after doing my countless hours of research, this is the set-up I ended up doing and am very pleased with.

I bought a Saeco Aroma Machine (refurbished with a 6 month warranty and the guy I bought it from is really cool, he returned my e-mails within 30 minutes) that I found here http://cgi.ebay.com/SAECO-AROMA-ESP...all_Kitchen_Appliances_US?hash=item518f0c095e I've already received my machine and it looks brand freaking new.

I know there has been a crapload of talk about the grinder being better than the machine, but this grinder has been used by many people who use this machine with great results and it's only $90 with free shipping. You can find that grinder here http://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/Capresso-Infinity-Conical-Burr-Grinder-p/scg20094.htm

Since that machine only comes with a pressurized portafilter (which I hear great things about), I opted to go with a non-pressurized portafilter from here http://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/Saeco-Non-Pressurized-Portafilter-Upgrade-p/scg10535-03.htm and a 53mm tamper from here http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006Q3T7Y/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Those machines have great reviews and are well known to be not only great starter machines, but machines that will do all that most espresso drinkers want to do.

SeattleCoffeeGear.com is a great website and they are very knowledgeable. You can even call and talk to them about their products and they will be able to tell you all that you want to know. Here is a couple of their videos that I've found extremely helpful.






Also, if you watch that temp surfing video (the last one), they talk about how you have temp problems with all of the single boiler machines. The good thing about the Silvia machines is that they have a copper boiler and lines rather than stainless boiler and plastic lines like the Saeco Aroma has. If you temp surf (which you will need to do on both machines, you won't have this problem.

I'd watch some of those SeattleCoffeeGear videos man, they're awesome.

Also, if you have any more questions about the machine, let me know. I know more than you'd want about this machine.

J
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Santa got me a poplite popper/roaster!

Now for my question....
Here in central IL, we have this thing called winter.
Am I going to have to wait till spring to roast any coffee or could I perhaps get by in an unheated garage? (it's about 38º out there now)
 
We do ours in the kitchen under the exhaust fan. But if you don't have one that vents to the outside I wouldn't recommend it.

Unheated garage should be fine. Just never leave the roaster unattended! Not even for a minute.

-Joe
 
ytsejam said:
Santa got me a poplite popper/roaster!

Now for my question....
Here in central IL, we have this thing called winter.
Am I going to have to wait till spring to roast any coffee or could I perhaps get by in an unheated garage? (it's about 38º out there now)
Click to expand...

Your garage will actually improve performance of the popper because one of the challenges with hot air roasting is slowing down the roast to a reasonable rate. Left unchecked in a warm room, a popper will roast a batch in about 4 minutes. This is too fast. The cold temp of the garage will enable you to stretch that 4 minutes into 6 or seven and the coffee will be better for it.
 
Thanks!
I'm going to order some beans (and an aeropress) and try it out then.
Sweet Maria's seems nice, but I like the prices at CCM-coffee.
Anyone order beans from them?
 
I've dealt with CCM a couple times. I wish I could remember the specifics but something made me stop ordering from them. I know, very vague, but I honestly don;t remember why I have a bad recollection of them.

If you are looking for a supplier of cheap non-artisan grade beans try out http://www.coffeebeandirect.com/index.php. Good service, good quality and pricing.
 
Don't mind me if I raise the dead (posts) over here, but it's refreshing as much as it's unsurprising to find more espresso nuts up here. :) When I first met my wife, she had finally done the math and figured out buying a basic good espresso machine (in this case, a Gaggia Classic) was cheaper than her couple-times-a-week Starbucks habit. Fast forward 5 years later, and we now have upgraded to a Bezzera BZ02 and plumbed it in to the corner pantry of our house along with a sink and a Rancilio Rocky doserless grinder. Upgrading to a commercial-grade machine? Worth every penny! :D

2010-05-28%2010.15.21.jpg
 
Does a phenomenal job generally. I'm having an issue with water leaking around the portafilter, though, despite vigorous cleaning and proper puck size. Haven't had time to look closer at it, but one thing's for sure: the machine is easy to work with, inside and out. Had to replace the 2-way inlet solenoid early on due to a shocking amount of scale buildup from our last house. Even with the leak, it still pulls shots awesome, one after the other even while steaming or pulling hot water. Heat exchangers for the win.
 
Yeah, I love my Vetrano HX. Weird that it's leaking around the PF. Did you check/replace the gasket? Maybe there's some crud packed onto or snuck under it.

-Joe
 
Craigslist has brought me into the espresso world at a great price. Over the past few years, I've picked up a Gaggia Classic, 1970s La Pavoni, Gaggia MDF grinder, & Gene Cafe roaster all for a very fair price.

The nice thing about buying this stuff used is that they are easy to fix if there is a problem, and if you decide that it's not for you, you can sell it for just about what you paid for it.

I say start with a good espresso machine and grinder. While my MDF grinder is a fine grinder, I say unless you find one used for a good price, go for something better. Once you get that down, the roaster comes next. Brewing beer & roasting on the day is a very good thing!
 
Roasting is awesome. My wife is big into it and has a Gene Cafe. It's the coolest doodad, ever.

I'd like to get hold of a La Pavoni lever machine just for fun :)

-Joe
 
nostalgia said:
Yeah, I love my Vetrano HX. Weird that it's leaking around the PF. Did you check/replace the gasket? Maybe there's some crud packed onto or snuck under it.
Click to expand...

I cleaned up to the gasket but hadn't gotten around to taking it out. I'm checking that next, thanks for the idea. Grounds were definitely all over the place, but I'm attributing that to the last time I let a friend make themselves a latte on the machine. And after that, it's now literally the last time. Heavens above, I don't know about you, but when I go over to somebody's place and use their kitchen or bathroom or whatever, I clean up after any mess I make. It took me 10 minutes of using q-tips, a Cleaning Tool and running the group head to get all those grounds out.

So yeah, that gasket idea has merit.
 

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