chilling full boil AG without wort chiller?

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zodiak3000

zodiak3000

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i havent had problems chilling partial extract boils in the sink with ice. im kinda broke at the moment to buy a wort chiller, but gonna be doing my first AG soon. wondering what kinda techniques folks out there use for chilling full boils (5 gallon). ive heard something about kettle in ice bath + salt in ice bath + swirling the wort slowly? is this accurate or is there any other technique people are doing that dont use wort chillers for full boils?
 
This is one of those things that theres really no trick to. Id just buy like 6 bags of ice and have a big sink to do it in, fill it with ice and water then salt the ice, its still gonna take a while.

I predict youll spare some money for an immersion chiller after going through this.
 
+1 on the prediction.

This is where the wort is most vulnerable, and a lid on the brewpot is going to make your chill time seem like an eternity.

When going from extract to AG, there are some obvious pieces of equipment needed...and a couple of no brainers. I consider a wort chiller one of the no brainers.

(temperature correcting refractometer is the second one IMHO)
 
If you're looking to avoid using a wort chiller for AG, I'd strongly suggest going the no-chill route.

If you transfer your wort over to a HDPE bucket immediately after the boil while everything is still scalding hot it'll sterilize your bucket and keep everything nicely safe so you can pitch the next day. Most people I've read about doing this will stuff the grommet hole with a Starsan soaked rag so the bucket doesn't collapse under the negative pressure as it cools. A bubbler full of Starsan/Vodak would probably be almost as effective.

In case you're wondering, HDPE is still food safe at boiling temperatures (it's the same plastic they use to make the the boil-in-bag rice) it just softens slightly, so don't kick your bucket.
 
I just leave the lid on the pot and then set it in my bathtub that's filled will cool tap water. I'm typically at 80F within 30 to 45 minutes. Commercial bags of ice can add a whole lot of cost to your batch of beer!! As for how sanitary this is.....I'm pushing my 40th batch of beer and have yet to lose one to contamination.
 
Bacchus said:
I just leave the lid on the pot and then set it in my bathtub that's filled will cool tap water. I'm typically at 80F within 30 to 45 minutes. Commercial bags of ice can add a whole lot of cost to your batch of beer!! As for how sanitary this is.....I'm pushing my 40th batch of beer and have yet to lose one to contamination.
Click to expand...

Sanitary would be a secondary concern for me in that situation.

Carrying 5+ gallons of 200+ degree water would scare the crap out of me. I worry about moving mine the 3 feet from my stovetop to the sink enough that I've been debating getting longer tubing so I can just leave it where it is.

Admittedly I tend to be a bit paranoid, but I've manged to avoid setting myself on fire for almost 15 years running now.
 
whatisitgoodfor said:
Sanitary would be a secondary concern for me in that situation.

Carrying 5+ gallons of 200+ degree water would scare the crap out of me. I worry about moving mine the 3 feet from my stovetop to the sink enough that I've been debating getting longer tubing so I can just leave it where it is.

Admittedly I tend to be a bit paranoid, but I've manged to avoid setting myself on fire for almost 15 years running now.
Click to expand...

Ahhh.....there's nothin' to it, brother!! Just gotta grab that pot and show it who's boss. Besides...just knowing that you're carrying 5+ gallons of 200+ degree water has a way of making you step carefully. LOL!!!!!
 
what about salt on ice water in bathtub? what about stirring the wort slowly while its in the bathtub? ive heard these techniques can help alot for full boils if you dont have a wort chiller. anybody had success without using a wort chiller? im kinda shaky about the no chill route...
 
Salting the ice will help you with the last few degrees, it will lower the freezing point of the ice, but it can't touch the amount of heat that a given amount of ice can absorb (laws of thermodynamics and everything.)

And I think Bacchus answered whether anyone has had success with using the bathtub for chilling 5 gallons of wort.

If you had access to piles of ammonium chloride (pulling that from memory as a salt that has an endothermic reaction with water) it would work for chilling the wort reasonably fast, but long term it's going to be a heckuva lot more expensive than a copper wort chiller.

You really might want to research no-chill though. The Aussies have (apparently) had a lot of luck with it, and I've never heard of anyone trying it and then going back to the git-er-done chilling camp. (I've never done no-chill myself, but then I'm from the deep south, so git-er-done is pretty deeply ingrained in me.) From everything I've heard the only effective difference is that you pitch your yeast the next day. There's no noticeable DMSO off flavor or long term flavor instability, just half an hour less work on brew day and an extra 10 minutes on the day after.
 
zodiak3000 said:
what about salt on ice water in bathtub? what about stirring the wort slowly while its in the bathtub? ive heard these techniques can help alot for full boils if you dont have a wort chiller. anybody had success without using a wort chiller? im kinda shaky about the no chill route...
Click to expand...

Although I'm not anal about sanitation practices, I would have qualms about stirring my exposed pot of wort in the bathroom until it cooled down. Even the cleanest of bathrooms have some pretty gnarly bacteria roaming the landscape. Like I said; I just let it sit there with the lid on and it's cool after about a half hour to 45 minutes.
 
whatisitgoodfor said:
Salting the ice will help you with the last few degrees, it will lower the freezing point of the ice, but it can't touch the amount of heat that a given amount of ice can absorb (laws of thermodynamics and everything.)

And I think Bacchus answered whether anyone has had success with using the bathtub for chilling 5 gallons of wort.

If you had access to piles of ammonium chloride (pulling that from memory as a salt that has an endothermic reaction with water) it would work for chilling the wort reasonably fast, but long term it's going to be a heckuva lot more expensive than a copper wort chiller.

You really might want to research no-chill though. The Aussies have (apparently) had a lot of luck with it, and I've never heard of anyone trying it and then going back to the git-er-done chilling camp. (I've never done no-chill myself, but then I'm from the deep south, so git-er-done is pretty deeply ingrained in me.) From everything I've heard the only effective difference is that you pitch your yeast the next day. There's no noticeable DMSO off flavor or long term flavor instability, just half an hour less work on brew day and an extra 10 minutes on the day after.
Click to expand...

thanks for the feedback. jeah, i''ll have to research it a see what the no-chill is about. ill probably just have to pick up a wort chiller sooner than later...
 
Bacchus said:
Although I'm not anal about sanitation practices, I would have qualms about stirring my exposed pot of wort in the bathroom until it cooled down. Even the cleanest of bathrooms have some pretty gnarly bacteria roaming the landscape. Like I said; I just let it sit there with the lid on and it's cool after about a half hour to 45 minutes.
Click to expand...

cool, im gonna try that out!
 
Have you considered holding off on doing your AG for a bit longer? Perhaps you can save up enough money to at least buy the equipment to build your own wort chiller. There are plenty of instruction videos online. My local homebrew shop sells them for close to $60, but if you go and get the equipment you're looking at $30.

That's actually the route I'm going. This weekend I'm going to build a mash-tun and get a bigger brew pot for the full boils, but I'm going to hold off on brewing altogether for the next few weeks, and instead of buying recipes I'm just going to buy equipment to make a wort chiller. Hopefully by the beginning of April I'll be able to do my first AG with all of the equipment. Personally I kind of refuse to even attempt it without all of the necessary tools. I'd hate to invest time, effort and money just to not make the best yield that I can. But that's just me.

Good luck, man.
 
whatisitgoodfor said:
If you're looking to avoid using a wort chiller for AG, I'd strongly suggest going the no-chill route.

If you transfer your wort over to a HDPE bucket immediately after the boil while everything is still scalding hot it'll sterilize your bucket and keep everything nicely safe so you can pitch the next day. Most people I've read about doing this will stuff the grommet hole with a Starsan soaked rag so the bucket doesn't collapse under the negative pressure as it cools. A bubbler full of Starsan/Vodak would probably be almost as effective.

In case you're wondering, HDPE is still food safe at boiling temperatures (it's the same plastic they use to make the the boil-in-bag rice) it just softens slightly, so don't kick your bucket.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a plan but... what about aeration? If you go the no chill route, don't you have to get some O2 in there before winding up for your pitch?
 
In the future just make a super concentrated wort (2-3 gallons) and then add it to your fermenter with the other 2-3 gallons of cold water. It works for me.
 
I know it's not the most popular method here, but I'm totally with Bacchus on the bathtub method. I too am not a pro by any means. But for all of my ~20 batches I have had no issues. The hot pot has handles and is easy to carry with bare hands.

The secret to the bathtub method is that the large body of water can absorb a lot of heat pretty quickly.

And yes I realize the bathroom is not the cleanest place in the house, but really, bacteria is everywhere. The KITCHEN, I believe, is actually the dirtiest place in the house if you are making starters or pitching there. I don't feel it's a problem worth worrying over.
 
http://www.learntobrew.com/store/it...Cooler_25_Feet_with_Garden_Hose_Fittings.html
-_Chillers_Pumps_Copper_Immersion_Chiller_or_Cooler_25_Feet_with_Garden_Hose_Fittings.jpg


$46 one time is better than $8 of ice per batch.
 
I just did my largest boil the other day 4.75 gallon boil. I cooled it to 74 degrees in about 30 minutes. My almost full boil was planned so I could add a little top off ice (sanatized containers with bottled water). Then I used my swamp cooler for the ice bath. I have an ice maker and you can plan ahead and make extra ice....so its cheap. I don't see what the big deal is. I want a chiller but wouldn't it probably take the same amount of time...especially because the tap water here comes out at about 75 degrees. I haven't done all grain yet but it is on the radar and adding a block or too of ice to top off doesn't sound too bad. But I'm a beginner so.....
 
bovineblitz said:
$46 one time is better than $8 of ice per batch.
Click to expand...

Definately. My chiller cost me about $80 to build, but its 3/8" copper and cools the beer in no time flat. VERY worth it in the long run. For the short term, big bags of ice in a bathtub work fine. It really won't take too long of doing that to add up to the cost of just buying or making a chiller.
 

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