Critique of my first clone attempt, please

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MoreHops

MoreHops

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Hi all,
I'm attempting to design a clone recipe for Driftwood's Fat Tug IPA, my fave "bought beer". This is my first recipe design from scratch...

My first step was to find out as much about its brewing process as I could. Unfortunately, not much is out there... that I could find, at least. So I emailed the brewmaster at Driftwood asking if they could share any details about grain bill, hops schedule, etc. I wasn't expecting a reply, but got one within the same day! :rockin: Granted, they couldn't give me too much info, but here's what they could tell me:

Indeed Fat Tug is our "killer app" and I would be remiss to divulge too much about the procedure in its brewing.

I will however give you some goals:

O.G: 1.069
T.G: 1.015
100 ibu's
10% crystal malt
Use lots of citrusy North American hop varieties, you pick which.
Click to expand...

With that information (and what is available from my LHBS), I set about playing around in Beersmith. Here's what I came up with and lovingly refer to as "Chubby Boat":

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Chubby Boat IPA
Brewer: MoreHops
Asst Brewer:
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 26.87 l
Post Boil Volume: 24.98 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 23.02 l
Bottling Volume: 23.02 l
Estimated OG: 1.069 SG
Estimated Color: 12.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 100.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.1 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
23.02 l Vancouver, BC Water 1 - [<-- link will take you to my Ward labs water report]
10.50 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent 2 -
8.70 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 3 -

12 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 76.9 %
1 lbs 12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5 10.8 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 6 6.2 %
1 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 7 6.2 %

0.50 oz Chinook [8.20 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 8 12.1 IBUs
0.50 oz Galena [12.50 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 9 18.5 IBUs

0.25 oz Chinook [8.20 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 10 4.2 IBUs
0.25 oz Galena [12.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 11 6.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 12 4.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [8.30 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 13 6.8 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [13.70 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 14 10.1 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 15 3.7 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [8.30 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 16 5.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [13.70 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 17 8.3 IBUs

0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 15.0 mins) Other 18 -
1.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 19 -

0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 20 2.7 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [8.30 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 21 4.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [13.70 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 22 6.1 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 23 1.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [8.30 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 24 2.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [13.70 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 25 3.3 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 26 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [8.30 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 27 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [13.70 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 28 0.0 IBUs

1.0 pkg American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) [25. Yeast 29 -

1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 30 0.0 IBUs


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 16 lbs 4.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 20.2 l of water at 76.5 C 66.7 C 60 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 15.03 l water at 75.6 C
Click to expand...

I would've liked to use White Labs Southwold Ale (WLP025) as the yeast for its "complex fruits and citrus flavours", but I can't seem to find it anywhere (seems that it's only offered seasonally)... so I've settled with Wyeast 1272 for this round (I suspect there will be subsequent rounds)... I intend to ferment on the warmer side (21-22 C) for fruitiness from this strain.

I would've also liked to use some Summit and Amarillo in there, but I currently don't have access to any...

Does anyone have advice/suggestions/warnings for me?
Thanks!
 
Anyone? Particularly those who have had Fat Tug?

Based on the info given to me by Driftwood, does my recipe seem reasonable? Does something jump out that makes you cringe, pucker, jawdrop, or :smack:?
 
So it's been a week... this thread has gotten 81 views, but no replies. :(
Did I do something wrong? :confused:
 
The recipe looks good. I have never had fat tug so it's hard to compare exactly. Feel free to send me one of yours and a fat tug and ill be happy to give you a comparison :).
 
I too haven't had Fat Tug so can't comment on how close this is to that. I think your recipe looks good. Some thoughts:

- that's a lot of IBUs for an IPA (rather than an IIPA) and an OG of 1.069

- are you sure you want to ferment high for esters and fruitiness? Most American IPAs you wouldn't do that with, but it could be an interesting experiment

- with the amount of crystal and carapils you have in the recipe, you might consider a lower mash temp to dry out the beer, or you could keep your mash temp and decrease the amount of crystal/carapils and get the same result
 
Thanks for replies! @fluidmechanics: where are you? If you're Canadian-based, I'd be tempted to send you some. I'm looking for honest feedback from my brews, and my friends don't go far beyond, "Hey, that's pretty good!". If you're in the US, I'm not sure if Customs will allow it...

Pappers_ said:
- that's a lot of IBUs for an IPA (rather than an IIPA) and an OG of 1.069
Click to expand...

I was going by the specs I got from Driftwood -- an OG of 1.069 and 100 IBUs. :drunk:


Pappers_ said:
- are you sure you want to ferment high for esters and fruitiness? Most American IPAs you wouldn't do that with, but it could be an interesting experiment
Click to expand...
This is where I'm very unsure on how to proceed. Fat Tug has, according to their website, "...an intense hop profile with notes of grapefruit, mango melon and passion fruit." How can I achieve that kind of flavor? From hops alone, using, as Driftwood suggests, "lots of citrusy North American hop varieties"? Or from the yeast and fermentation temps?

Pappers_ said:
- with the amount of crystal and carapils you have in the recipe, you might consider a lower mash temp to dry out the beer, or you could keep your mash temp and decrease the amount of crystal/carapils and get the same result
Click to expand...
Driftwood says to use 10% Crystal malt, so I went with that in the recipe design. I agree with you, however, that I've got too much Carapils, so I'll cut that back by 0.25-0.5 lb.
Regarding mash temp: I'm aiming for a final gravity of 1.015. If I mash at a lower temp, won't the FG be too low?

Cheers!
 
MoreHops said:
This is where I'm very unsure on how to proceed. Fat Tug has, according to their website, "...an intense hop profile with notes of grapefruit, mango melon and passion fruit." How can I achieve that kind of flavor? From hops alone, using, as Driftwood suggests, "lots of citrusy North American hop varieties"? Or from the yeast and fermentation temps?
Click to expand...

Most American-style IPAs are based on fruity hops, with a clean (non-estery) yeast profile. The Cascades, Centennial and Chinook will give you the citrus and grapefruit flavors, the Citra will add mango and passion fruit aromas and flavors. I think with your hop schedule, you'll have a very nice hop aroma and flavor.
 
Pappers_ said:
Most American-style IPAs are based on fruity hops, with a clean (non-estery) yeast profile. The Cascades, Centennial and Chinook will give you the citrus and grapefruit flavors, the Citra will add mango and passion fruit aromas and flavors. I think with your hop schedule, you'll have a very nice hop aroma and flavor.
Click to expand...

AHA! This was something I wasn't understanding, but I think I'm coming around -- thanks Pappers! :mug:

Part of my problem is not yet being able to "pick out" the flavor of a particular hops and thus not really knowing which hops contribute to particular flavors. I'm going to start doing some smaller (1-2 gal) batches with single hops to figure those flavors out. Maybe some SMaSHes.
 
Grain bill looks pretty good, I keep the Crystal just under 10% for colour purposes. Have had success with the following:

Summit for bittering
Cent & Cascade for flavouring
Cascade finish and dry hop
153 Mash
 
*No Carapils. You won't have an issue with body/head retention with all the crystal malt.

*Go with 9.8% Crystal 20 or 40 (which is even a stretch in my book, but seems better than 11% of C60).

*Mash below 152 F.

*Centennial, Amarillo, Citra, Cascade, Summit, Nugget, and/or Simcoe. Citra seems like a must here as it screams tropical. You also get fruity/citrusy notes from all of those hops.

*Boost dryhop to 3-4 oz. total for 7 days. Include any combo of the first four hops listed above.

*Definitely go with 1056 or 1272 yeast. Ferment in the mid 60s actual wort temp. Dryhop at 67-68.

*Website says 80+ IBUs. Comment above says 100 even. I'd probably settle at 88-ish. But be sure to play with the Tinseth and Rager formulas. They calculate differently.
 
MoreHops said:
Thanks for replies! @fluidmechanics: where are you? If you're Canadian-based, I'd be tempted to send you some. I'm looking for honest feedback from my brews, and my friends don't go far beyond, "Hey, that's pretty good!". If you're in the US, I'm not sure if Customs will allow it... [\QUOTE]

Thanks bud but I'm in the states. Have you looked for a homebrew club in your area? You get together, drink beer, and can get some great feedback from brewers that are like you. If your lucky they will be better and will show you some tips. Good luck.
Click to expand...
 
I have never had the beer that your trying to clone. So with that said, i think your crystal is way to high for an IPA. Your recipe has almost 20% crystal malt.
I would personally cut that down to 10% or less and mash at 150°.
Also 1272 is my house yeast. It will leave some residual sweetness.
Ferment at 66° and the hops will shine.
Good luck!
 
Billybrewer09 said:
So with that said, i think your crystal is way to high for an IPA. Your recipe has almost 20% crystal malt.
Click to expand...

Fact: Carapils is not a crystal malt. It does not lend a toasty, deep, caramel sweetness.

Fact: Green Flash WCIPA uses 16% collective total crystal malt and carapils.

... WITH THAT SAID, he does not need carapils if he's using 10% crystal malt, mashing in the 150's, and not using any simple sugars.
 
bobbrews said:
Fact: Carapils is not a crystal malt. It does not lend a toasty, deep, caramel sweetness.

Fact: Green Flash WCIPA uses 16% collective total crystal malt and carapils.

... WITH THAT SAID, he does not need carapils if he's using 10% crystal malt, mashing in the 150's, and not using any simple sugars.
Click to expand...

Thanks for pointing out that carapils is not a crystal malt.
It is almost pointless to use it in conjunction with crystal malt as is does not add sweetness or color.
I personally still do not like to go much over 10% crystal in my IPA's.
 
Billybrewer09 said:
It is almost pointless to use it in conjunction with crystal malt as is does not add sweetness or color.
Click to expand...

It depends if you want added body and head retention without the darker, toasty caramel sweetness. Plenty of brewers use both for excellent IPAs.

Billybrewer09 said:
I personally still do not like to go much over 10% crystal in my IPA's.
Click to expand...

Me either, but carapils is not a crystal malt. It's a cara- malt. It does not have the sweetness that crystal malts do. For me, crystal malt begins to get very cloying at about 9% in an 1.070 OG IPA.
 
Bring some to the VanBrewers AGM on Saturday,Feb 2nd. and we'll critique it and give way too much advice. Personally, I'd do a second round of dry hopping with Citra.
 
JamesW said:
Bring some to the VanBrewers AGM on Saturday,Feb 2nd. and we'll critique it and give way too much advice. Personally, I'd do a second round of dry hopping with Citra.
Click to expand...

Heh -- it definitely won't be ready by the weekend; I haven't brewed it yet. I'm currently re-working the recipe based on the feedback received in the this thread, including dry-hopping with Citra. And I ordered/received some Amarillo to play with too... :rockin:
 
After the advice from this thread (thanks again, folks!), I've altered my recipe. I'm happy with the final result and am using all of the info I received from the brewmaster at Driftwood: OG = 1.069 (check!), FG = 1.015 (check!), 10% Crystal (check!), 100 IBU (okay, I've got a bit more calculated IBU at 107 IBUs but I don't mind that because, as my name implies, I like hoppy beers), and lots of North American hop varieties (check!). I also wanted a bit more of an orange color rather than a yellowish color, which I'm hoping to get with an estimated 13.6 SRM.
I haven't brewed it yet so I can't say whether it tastes great or not -- I need to wait 2 more weeks for other 2 brews that are in primaries before I brew. But if anyone is keeping tabs at home, here's my final recipe:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Chubby Boat IPA 2.0
Brewer: MoreHops
Asst Brewer:
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0) Haven't brewed it yet. Still planning.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 26.87 l
Post Boil Volume: 24.98 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 23.02 l
Bottling Volume: 23.02 l
Estimated OG: 1.069 SG
Estimated FG: 1.015 SG
Estimated Color: 13.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 106.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.2 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
23.02 l Vancouver, BC Water 1 -
10.50 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent 2 -
8.70 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 3 -
12 lbs 12.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 79.8 %
1 lbs 9.6 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 5 10.0 %
1 lbs 6.0 oz Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 6 8.6 %
1.00 oz IPA Bittering Hop Mix [10.35 %] - First Hop 7 30.6 IBUs
4.0 oz Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 8 1.6 %
0.50 oz IPA Bittering Hop Mix [10.35 %] - Boil 3 Hop 9 10.7 IBUs
2.00 oz IPA Flavor Hop Mix [8.82 %] - Boil 20.0 Hop 10 28.7 IBUs
2.00 oz IPA Flavor Hop Mix [8.82 %] - Boil 15.0 Hop 11 23.5 IBUs
1.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 12 -
1.00 oz IPA Flavor Hop Mix [8.82 %] - Boil 10.0 Hop 13 8.6 IBUs
3.00 g Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 14 -
1.00 oz IPA Flavor Hop Mix [8.82 %] - Boil 5.0 m Hop 15 4.7 IBUs
2.00 oz IPA Flavor Hop Mix [8.82 %] - Boil 0.0 m Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) [25. Yeast 17 -
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [13.70 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 19 0.0 IBUs


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light-Medium Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 15 lbs 15.6 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 5.18 gal of water at 76.6 C 65 C 60 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 15.41 l water at 75.6 C
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"IPA Flavor Hop Mix" = 25% each of Cascade (5.5% aa), Centennial (8.3% aa), Citra (13.7% aa), and Amarillo (7.8% aa), giving me an average of a 8.82% alpha acid.
"IPA Bittering Hop Mix" = 50% each of a Galena (12.5% aa) and Chinook (8.2% aa), giving an average of 10.35% alpha acid.
(I just entered them that way because it was becoming tedious changing so many variables in Beersmith and was making the list too long).

Will ferment in primary at ~18 degC/~65 degF for 3 weeks and secondary/dry-hop for 4 days, cold-crash for 3 days, then bottle.

The gypsum/CaCl2 will be added to the strike and sparge water. Using EZ Water, my resultant water profile will be:
Ca 139
Mg 0
Na 2
Cl 121
SO4 169 (Cl/SO4 ratio = 0.72)
Estimated room-temp mash pH = 5.5

Am pumped to try this recipe....!
 
Update: still (!) haven't brewed this, but the time is near.
I just came across a blog that was started up right after my OP that discusses cloning Fat Tug. They've gotten info on some of the hops used, so I'm probably going to alter my recipe one last time before I brew...
 
I sort of second the comment made by James.

Bring it to a vanbrewers meeting (last thur of the month, deets posted on our fb page or website), we have a bunch of BJCP judges who would love to provide actual feedback.
 
Sorry I missed this thread until today!
I've so far brewed two 2 gallon clone attempts (one is in primary and the other will be bottled tomorrow). I'm chronicling my attempts and findings on my blog at http://www.closertothehop.com
I've been doing alot of hands-on "product research" drinking this fine IPA and it is indeed one of my personal favorites.
For the hops, the brewmaster at Driftwood told my wife |(got her to email him instead of me) that they use Summit, Amarillo, Centennial and Cascade. It would be reasonable to assume that Summit is used for bittering and the rest I'm guessing are late hop additions and also for dry-hopping.
In my 2 gallon batches I'm using 1.5oz of hops for dry-hopping as there is a pretty big hop aroma in this beer. I've also been hop-backing 2 oz of Cascade for more flavour and aroma before chilling the wort. My friend is quite certain Amarillo is used in the dry-hopping, so in my first two attempts I've used half Amarillo in my dry-hopping.
I've been using Safale S-05 dry yeast since I feel the yeast being used is relatively neutral and also high in attentuation. If I was using liquid yeast I'd go with a 1056. I'm also thinking that due to the reddish nature of the beer colour i'm guessing that some Munich Malt is also being used here in addition to crystal. I hope to make a 3rd clone variation next week so I will have 3 clone attempts to sample and compare. My 3rd clone variation based on a 2 gallon batch will look something like:

-4.25 lbs 2 row
-0.75 lbs Munich 9l
-0.25 lb Crystal 30
-0.25 lb Crystal 60
-0.25 lb Cara-pils

I may end up ditching the cara-pils and go with 4.5lbs of 2 row instead. Just under 6 lbs of grain gives me a target OG of around 1.068 and my final FG is coming in at around 1.012

Hop sched will be similar to my first clone attempt as outlined in my blog. I mashed at 150 degrees for 75 minutes for the previous two clones and will do the same for the 3rd.

It may take a few attempts but I think a reasonable clone is quite attainable.
 
Thanks for the info, HopHoarder! I'm actually surprised they don't use Citra...! But I think between the 2 of us, we'll figure out a great clone! Your recipes sure look tasty though...

Awright; so I'm getting exhausted "over-thinking" this recipe. I've reworked it one last time with the new info, and came up with v3.0:

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Chubby Boat IPA 3.0
Brewer: MoreHops
Asst Brewer:
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0) Not sure yet -- brewing this weekend.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.10 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.60 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.08 gal
Bottling Volume: 6.08 gal
Estimated OG: 1.069 SG
Estimated FG: 1.015 SG
Estimated Color: 12.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 100.7 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.2 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6.08 gal Vancouver, BC Water 1 -
10.50 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent 2 -
8.70 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 3 -
12 lbs 12.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 79.8 %
1 lbs 9.6 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5 10.0 %
1 lbs 6.0 oz Munich Light 10L (Gambrinus) (11.0 SRM) Grain 6 8.6 %
0.75 oz Summit [17.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 7 37.6 IBUs
4.0 oz Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 8 1.6 %
0.75 oz Summit [17.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 9 26.3 IBUs
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [7.80 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 10 5.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [9.10 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 11 5.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.80 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 12 6.5 IBUs
1.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 13 -
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [7.80 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 14 3.8 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [9.10 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 15 4.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.80 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 16 4.8 IBUs
3.00 g Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 17 -
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [7.80 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 18 2.1 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [9.10 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 19 2.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.80 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 20 2.6 IBUs
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [7.80 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 21 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [9.10 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 22 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.80 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 23 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) [124 Yeast 24 -
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [7.80 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Day Hop 25 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 26 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Centennial [8.30 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 27 0.0 IBUs


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 15 lbs 15.6 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 20.71 qt of water at 168.6 F 152.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 4.07 gal water at 168.0 F
Click to expand...

I'm hitting all the targets: OG = 1.069 (check!), FG = 1.015 (check!), 10% Crystal (check!), 100 IBU (check!), and the hops info provided by HopHoarder. I'm locking this one in and brewing it on Monday. :rockin:

Gonna do 1 week in primary then rack to secondary for 1 week (my primary is an "open air" bucket, so I want to reduce headspace). Then dry-hop for 4 days, cold crash for 3 days, and bottle.

1.9L starter started tonight with a stir plate. Based on yeastcalc.com, that should give me 293M cells from a Wyeast 1272 smack-pack manufactured last week. Will stick the starter in the fridge on Sunday evening, then decant on Monday and let it warm up, then pitch!
 
Looks good! I think you should come pretty close on this one. With regards to Citra, it could be due to it being a difficult variety to secure year-round that makes it a poor choice for a flagship brew.
Chubby Boat is a great name. I think Im gonna go with "Pudgy Puller" for mine.
 
HopHoarder said:
I think you should come pretty close on this one.
Click to expand...
I hope so! I'm still too much of a noob to "predict" the end product... slowly improving there, though...

HopHoarder said:
With regards to Citra, it could be due to it being a difficult variety to secure year-round that makes it a poor choice for a flagship brew.
Click to expand...
Good point.

HopHoarder said:
I think Im gonna go with "Pudgy Puller" for mine.
Click to expand...

Not sure if a double-entendre is meant, but I think it's a great name! :mug:
 
Brewed Fat Tug Clone #3 today (I'm going with calling these clones "Tat Fug" now). This was an 8.5 litre batch and it went like this:

0.75 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 &#8211;
5 lbs 4.0 oz Superior Pale Malt (3.1 SRM) Grain 2 77.8 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt &#8211; 30L (30.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.4 %
8.0 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 4 7.4 %
4.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.7 %
4.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt &#8211; 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 6 3.7 %
0.50 oz Summit [16.00 %] &#8211; Boil 45.0 min Hop 7 49.8 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] &#8211; Boil 20.0 min Hop 8 20.5 IBUs
1.00 Items Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 9 &#8211;
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] &#8211; Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 19.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] &#8211; Boil 10.0 min Hop 11 12.3 IBUs

Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml] Yeast, washed from previous batch and re-pitched
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] &#8211; Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50%] &#8211; Dry hop 7.0 Days

Less Munich and a bit more Crystal this time. For hops, less Centennial and more Amarillo and Cascade. Got an estimate of 101 IBU's. I moved Tat Fug#2 to secondary today and for a switch went with 2oz of Citra in dryhop for 6.5 litres of beer. That's a pretty aggressive dryhop so we'll see how it goes.
 
Awesome! Would you be interested in a trade/tasting when they're ready?

As for mine, my brew day yesterday was a minor disaster, but I still somehow managed to pull it off. I realized that I was going to need a bigger mash tun, so I went to Dan's on Saturday. They didn't have the larger size tun available, but they sold me a bigger pail and drilled a hole it for a spigot. I was able to take the spigot off my older, smaller tun and put it on the newer one. The main problem was that my old false-bottom didn't fit well in the new tun (too much space on the sides) so Chris (at Dan's -- awesome guy btw) rigged up a gasket out of some tubing. That seemed well and dandy, but once I stirred the mash with my paddle, I must've dislodged the gasket and it floated to the top. With the mash in full swing, I couldn't replace the gasket. So when it came time to sparge, it got stuck from blockage -- my first stuck sparge. Luckily I had my old tun/bucket available so after taping up the hole left from the spigot, I dumped the mash into my old pail, replaced the gasket in the new tun, and dumped back the mash. Then I was able to fly sparge without a problem. Next time, I might put the gasket under the false-bottom which'll hold it down. And use a screen on the outlet... I never want to have to do that again!

But I hit my pre-boil gravity at 1.061 (expected 1.062) and volume (estimated mash efficiency of 75.2% and got 74.1%). I also experimented with a modified hop spider for the time that I built after reading about it on Brewgeeks. It worked fairly well, but I think I'm more of a fan of loose hopping now...

But then I decided to raise the temp to boil without the lid (I normally keep the lid on until it's close to boil and then remove it to prevent boil over, etc). Didn't have any boil overs, but it did cause me to evap more volume than expected. Couple that with not being able to strain/squeeze the hops as I normally do, and I ended up with 21.8L instead of 23L so my OG is 1.071 (expected was 1.069). Thus my overall efficiency was 69.8%. Still decent in my books, but a bit disappointing for me as my previous 2 batches were 71.1% and 80.5%; so I thought I was getting better. Oh well -- RDWHAHB! I'll laugh if this turns out to be my best beer to date...!

Pitched my starter at 4pm yesterday and it was in very active fermentation mode this morning (and still is). :rockin:

Will post pics for color when I take an SG reading/rack to secondary on Sunday.
 
Nothing like unexpected complications on brewday! I use a 48qt cooler with a custom made SS false bottom and it works beautifully for my bigger batches.
All 3 of my Tat Fugs will be ready in about 4 weeks for sampling. Hopefully one of us got it pretty close.
 
Nice krausen from my washed S-05 on Tat Fug #3

DSC03240.jpg
 
I sampled my "Tag Fug" #1 clone today. See the image for a visual comparison...Fat Tug on left and Tag Fug #1 on the right. My TF is a bit darker and redder and the head isn't quite as white. Probably too much Munich/ CaraMunich. As for the taste, the dryhop aroma is very similar but mine seemed a bit more pungent; probably due to all that Centennial that I hopbacked with. Taste is pretty similar but mine I think is a bit maltier. As for hop profile, mine tasted a bit "cleaner" meaning a bit less bittering on the backend. I'm getting with the FT a bit more Centennial on the front end (a bit of dankness, but in a good way) and I'm guessing they went a bit heavier on earlier hop additions than I did.
Overall though I'd say it's pretty close and my tweaks on #2 and 3 I believe went the right way, so we'll see how the following two TF's comapre.

DSC03269.jpg
 
I took a grav reading today (1.012) after 6 days in primary, so I'm already up to 7.8% ABV (according to Beersmith calc). My yeast were efficient little guys!
The color is sorta close, but Chubby Boat is a bit redder so I might dial back the munich by about 3/4. It's also hard to tell as the Fat Tug (on the right) is clear, whereas Chubby Boat (on the left) is cloudy, so it's a bit of apples vs. oranges comparison. The taste is fantastic and quite hop-forward. Hard to compare the flavor right now because it hasn't been dry-hopped yet. Racking it to secondary now and dry-hopping with 1 oz each cent, casc, and amarillo. :ban:


IMG_6344.jpg
 
Sounds good MH. I noticed the redness in my beer faded after the secondary and bottle conditioning. I'll be transferring TatFug #3 to secondary today and bottling #2 on Tuesday.
 
Bottled tatfug #2 today and moved #3 to secondary. Dryhopping #3 with 1oz Amarillo and. 5oz each of Cascade and Falconer's Flight. Should be yummy.
 
@HopHoarder: Will you be attending the VanBrewers meet next week? Bringing any Tat Fug?
 
Nope I'm not a member of VanBrewers and it's a bit too far for me. I'll probably bring some to the Chilliwack Homebrewers meeting next week though.
 
I sampled a TatFug #2 today 5 days after bottling. Both my wifey and I agree that #2 is closer to the FatTug than #1 was. The 2oz of Citra in dryhop turned out nicely but could have been stronger in aroma. I'll be bottling #3 on Monday or Tuesday
 
Bottled Chubby Boat on Sat. Final grav = 1.010, so it ended up at 7.9% ABV. A bit high. Had a wee taste -- was great! But got some residual sweetness which I hope will mellow out with time and get offset by the CO2. I usually bottle-condition for 3 weeks at room temp, but I'll probably crack a bottle in another week or so to gauge the progress...

@HopHoarder: Did you get any feedback re. TatFug at the Chilliwack meeting?
 
I didn't bring any of my clones to the meeting, but a friend of mine is coming over pretty soon to offer another opinion. I tasted #3 last night after a week in the bottle and I'd have to say that the hop profile is the closest of the three. Nice citrusy nose, citrus bomb in the front and lingering bitterness on the backend. I think next time though I'll do a bit more Summit in the bittering and try a hopstand during flameout/ whirlpool for even more flavour/ aroma.
Grainbill with #3 I'd say is also pretty close...85% basemalt, 10% crystal and 5% carapils or something close to that.
I think the moral here is to not be afraid of using too much hops; especially in late additions and in the dryhop.
 
Okay so my hophead friend, my wife and I sampled all three of my clones against the actual fat tug and decided unanimously that clone #1 was the closest of the three. It seems that clone #1 mellowed out a bit over the past few weeks and was the closest in colour, maltiness and hop profile of the three, to which I was quite surprised. Still though I think I'd tweak my #1 clone slightly as it was still a bit darker and redder than the true Fat Tug and also needed a bit more of that "dank" bitterness that Fat Tug has, so if I were to do a clone #4 I'd go with this recipe based on a two gallon batch:


0.50 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -
4.4 lbs Superior Pale Malt (3.1 SRM)
3/4 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM)
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L (30.0 SRM)
3.0 oz Caramunich Malt (40.0 SRM)
0.50 oz Summit [16.00 %] - Boil 45 min
0.25 oz Centennial [10.00%] Boil 45 min
1.00 Items Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins)
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 10 min Hop 8 10.7 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 10 min Hop 9 13.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5 min Hop 10 7.6 IBUs

Hopstand @ flameout:
0.50 oz Centennial
0.50 oz Cascade

0.5 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05)
0.75 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days
0.75 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days

I think that would get you pretty darn close.
 

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