Air Stone

I've been using an air stone for aeration for a few batches now with great success (much faster fermentations!)

However, after my last time aerating, as I was rinsing off my tubing and stone, the stone seems to have broke off. I figured I must have had a cheap stone so I went to the store and they seem to come in two varieties, cheap and cheaper. Anyone else have this experience? I am wondering if the no-rinse solution I used for sanitation this time may have played a part (are usually use a bleach solution)

I've talked to some of my aquarium friends and they've never heard of this happening before.

Are you talking about an aquarium air stone? If so, I would treat those as disposable...sanitize it, use it, throw it away.

In anyones honest opinoin, it the air stones really worth the trouble?

anthrobe said:

In anyones honest opinoin, it the air stones really worth the trouble?

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Yes! Anything you can do do oxygenate the wort prior to pitching the yeast is a good thing. Stirring it is good, shaking it is better, blowing air through an airstone is better still, and oxygen through a SS airstone is great. Gives the yeast a chance to go through a healthy multiplication cycle before the get down to eating the sugars.

That said, if you're pitching dry yeast, oxygen is supposedly not necessary. I'd still do it, IMHO...you just can't have too many yeasts.

hmmm, might have to give this a try. I would guess, from the previous post a couple weeks ago, that you would want a seperate tank with oxygen.

Question I have been waiting to ask... Just to be clear on this, pumping air with a regular aquarium pump, line, and stone is cool, as long as you sanitize the line and stone?

Lounge Lizard said:

Question I have been waiting to ask... Just to be clear on this, pumping air with a regular aquarium pump, line, and stone is cool, as long as you sanitize the line and stone?

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I would definately put a filter in line if pumping air. You'll be blowing mold spores and airborne bacteria if you don't.

You can get inline filters here: http://www.northernbrewer.com/aeration.html

I use one with welders oxygen.

It's one of the best things you can do for your yeast to ensure they're healthy and have suffecient populations to complete a clean fermentation.

ScottT said:

I would definately put a filter in line if pumping air. You'll be blowing mold spores and airborne bacteria if you don't.

You can get inline filters here: http://www.northernbrewer.com/aeration.html

I use one with welders oxygen.

It's one of the best things you can do for your yeast to ensure they're healthy and have suffecient populations to complete a clean fermentation.

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Thanks! I could run the line through the hole in the top of the fermenter for the air lock (with room to spare for escaping air).... Another setup to put on my wish list...

I just used my system like the one ScottT mentioned (with the pure oxygen) in my Porter last Sunday. I didn't shake the wort at all... just put the SS stone in and let 'er rip for a minute. Mine has a long SS tube so I can move the stone around to distribute the oxygen bubbles. Sixteen hours later I had a yeast whirlpool and a three inch krausen. Not bad for a wort that started at 1080 (not corrected for temp) and I didn't have to throw my back out shaking five gallons of liquid. It's starting to slow down a bit now, but I'm quite sure I'll have a complete fermentation by the 7th day.

One suggestion for a new user: go for tiny bubbles. Don't crank the pressure up on these things or you'll be defeating the purpose of the 5 micron holes in the stone. That part wasn't mentioned in the instructions that came with my kit.

mxyzptlk said:

I've been using an air stone for aeration for a few batches now with great success (much faster fermentations!)

However, after my last time aerating, as I was rinsing off my tubing and stone, the stone seems to have broke off. I figured I must have had a cheap stone so I went to the store and they seem to come in two varieties, cheap and cheaper. Anyone else have this experience? I am wondering if the no-rinse solution I used for sanitation this time may have played a part (are usually use a bleach solution)

I've talked to some of my aquarium friends and they've never heard of this happening before.

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Was this an aquarium stone or a stainless steel stone made for homebrewing? I don't think the aquarium stone would be of any quality. The SST stone should not go into "a bleach solution". To sanitize that, simply boil it.



On the side, after brewing today, I'm placing an order with NB. One item will be the aeration kit. I'm waiting to try this oxygen I have. I wish I had it today!!!

it is an aquarium stone. I wasn't aware they made stones specifically for brewing. Are they a lot more expensive? I just bought 4 air stones for a buck something. Even if I treat them as disposable, it's still pretty cheap. Are there any advantages to stainless steel stones other than durability?

mxyzptlk said:

it is an aquarium stone. I wasn't aware they made stones specifically for brewing. Are they a lot more expensive? I just bought 4 air stones for a buck something. Even if I treat them as disposable, it's still pretty cheap. Are there any advantages to stainless steel stones other than durability?

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I think the stainless stones have much smaller pores than aquarium stones, meaning finer air bubbles, meaning better absorption by the wort. Yes, they are more expensive...$25 bucks or so for a big one I think, tho it should last a lifetime.

El P, Scott,

how long do you oxygenate you wort? I just got one of these ogygenation systems that you use with the $8 O2 bottle from Lowes/Home Depot and I had it in there for 15min. But I only went for small bubbles (hardly any foam). The instructions said one minute but that seemed a little short to me for 5gal worth of wort.

Kai

Kai said:

El P, Scott,

how long do you oxygenate you wort?

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Here's the instructions that came with mine:

OG: 1.040-1.050, 1 minute
OG: 1.050-1.060, 1.5 minute
OG: 1.060-1.070, 2 minutes
OG: 1.070 plus, 2.5-3 minutes and once additionally in 12-14 hours

These schedules should yield 10-15ppm dissolved oxygen.

I also oxygenate my starters for 10 seconds once per hour for the first 4-8 hours.

El Pistolero said:

OG: 1.040-1.050, 1 minute
OG: 1.050-1.060, 1.5 minute
OG: 1.060-1.070, 2 minutes
OG: 1.070 plus, 2.5-3 minutes and once additionally in 12-14 hours

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Thanks,

I think I have the same one.
Does the last line mean, that onlt 1.070+ worts need to get an additional oxygenation or should every type of wort get a second dose.

Kai

Kai said:

Thanks,

I think I have the same one.
Does the last line mean, that onlt 1.070+ worts need to get an additional oxygenation or should every type of wort get a second dose.

Kai

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I took it to mean only 1.070+ gets a second shot at 12 hours. I did this on a wee heavy, and it went ballistic within an hour after the second oxygenation.

Kai said:

El P, Scott,
how long do you oxygenate you wort? I just got one of these ogygenation systems that you use with the $8 O2 bottle from Lowes/Home Depot and I had it in there for 15min. But I only went for small bubbles (hardly any foam). The instructions said one minute but that seemed a little short to me for 5gal worth of wort.
Kai

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15 minutes... holy carp! Might be time to go get another O2 tank already. I think the info in my kit said total yield is something like 20 batches averaging 60 seconds per batch.

I used mine on a porter two weeks ago. The SG was 1080, but I didn't have the handy chart El P posted so I only ran it for a little over a minute. Even at that, the fermentation was complete by around the 11th day. I racked it into a keg last night and the FG was 1020 - roughly 8% ABV (after temp corrections) by my calcs. Not bad, considering I never shook the thing at all. Probably one of the best purchases I've made. I'm trying to talk my friends into buying them, too.

DrewsBrews said:

15 minutes... holy carp! Might be time to go get another O2 tank already. I think the info in my kit said total yield is something like 20 batches averaging 60 seconds per batch

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For some reason I had this number in the back of my head.

The batch took some time to take off. Maybe the yeast did a lot of growing (I hope this will not be detrimental to the flavor). It ferments so heavily that it lifts up trub and pushes it through the blow-off tube. Thank godness I installed one that is as wide as the carboy opening.

I did 1.5 min on my Maerzen tonight. I'll see how well this one starts.

El Pistolero said:

I took it to mean only 1.070+ gets a second shot at 12 hours. I did this on a wee heavy, and it went ballistic within an hour after the second oxygenation.

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Yesterday I read (I think it was even in a link you posted) that the later addition of some oxygen is useful to boost another growth spurt. That's why it is not as obvious to me. I'f I don't see any signs of fermentation by tomorrow morning I'll give it another shot.

Kai

So, I did the math. I had to, I'm an engineer .

When I oxygenated (only small bubbles) I saw little bubbles travel up the oxygen hose. These bubbles were from sanitizing solution that I used to back-flush the hose and stone.

Based on the speed of the bubbles in the hose and the diameter of the hose I determined that the wort gets about 3.3ml of oxygen/second. With an oxygenation time of 90s there will be 300ml of Oxygen pumped into the wort.

Using the specific weight of Oxygen (1.42 g/l at 1.035 mbar and 20C), I get 0.42g of O2 into the wort.If all this would be absobed, I would get a concentration of 20 mg/l (same as ppm).

The big unknown is the absoption factor. I didn't measure how much air/O2 came out of the carboy. But assuming an absoption factor of 0.5 would get me the desired 10g/l.

And yes, 15min is definetely to long. Unless the absorption factor is 0.05.

The oxygen system I purchased from Northern Brewer suggested that it be used for 15-20 minutes. This kit uses an aquarium pump and not pure O2. Assuming that "normal" air is about 20% O2, this would lead me to believe that a pure O2 system should be used for 20% of 15-20 min (3-5 minutes), which is close to what El P mentioned above.
Are there any dangers of over-oxygenating other than a waste of O2?

These are just my late night thoughts, as I sit at work with nothing to do but read about beer(gotta love the overnight shifts).

bleppek said:

Are there any dangers of over-oxygenating other than a waste of O2?

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I don't think you can over-oxygenate. For one, the yeast need the oxygen for the first part of their life cycle. The more oxygen disolved in the liquid, the happier the yeast will be. Besides, without intoducing heat or a pressure chamber to the mix, there's a saturation point after which no more oxygen will be absorbed anyway. Anything else is waste.

After a few slow or stuck fermentations and lots of input here, plus the incentive of a gift certificate at Christmas, I ordered an oxygenation system from MoreBeer.com. It sounds like most folks get their O2 canisters from Home Depot or Lowes. Is that correct?

I ask because I just called my local HD and Lowes, and no one seemed to know if they had them, and if so, what department would stock these. Any input on this would be appreciated!

Thor said:

After a few slow or stuck fermentations and lots of input here, plus the incentive of a gift certificate at Christmas, I ordered an oxygenation system from MoreBeer.com. It sounds like most folks get their O2 canisters from Home Depot or Lowes. Is that correct?

I ask because I just called my local HD and Lowes, and no one seemed to know if they had them, and if so, what department would stock these. Any input on this would be appreciated!

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Welding Area. Bernzomatic Red O2 Tanks. About $8.50 per tank. Guess you'll get 8-10 uses out of it.

What DB said. Head for the tools section then look for welding supplies. Just make sure you get the red one... not the yellow one!

DrewsBrews said:

What DB said. Head for the tools section then look for welding supplies. Just make sure you get the red one... not the yellow one!

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Yea, USMCRUZ set me straight on that one

desertBrew said:

Yea, USMCRUZ set me straight on that one

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so he was worth something?????

After losing another (cheap) air stone to sanitation fluid, I've decided to boil my air stones for sanitation. I am hoping they last longer this way.

mxyzptlk said:

After losing another (cheap) air stone to sanitation fluid, I've decided to boil my air stones for sanitation. I am hoping they last longer this way.

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what did the sanitation fluid do to it?

Man, I always pitch then blast with the O2 for about 30 sec never had any problems. But next time I am going to try it fro 60 sec to see what happens.

I find the stones break right off... the last one broke off before I even got a chance to use it. One of these times they're going to break off right in my beer.......

mxyzptlk said:

I find the stones break right off... the last one broke off before I even got a chance to use it. One of these times they're going to break off right in my beer.......

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IMHO, you'll be much happier if you stop using those cheap aquarium stones, and spring for a SS one. You won't have to worry about it crumbling to dust, and it will yield MUCH better aeration.

A Basic Brewing Radio interview with one of the Wyeast guys said that they had done research that concluded the best way to aerate (short of a direct shot from a tank of O2... which as homebrewers we really don't have handy) is to get a good shake on your carboy for about 4 minutes. This helps the wort get better aeration and oxygen solubility than using an aquarium pump.

JRoche00 said:

A Basic Brewing Radio interview with one of the Wyeast guys said that they had done research that concluded the best way to aerate (short of a direct shot from a tank of O2... which as homebrewers we really don't have handy) is to get a good shake on your carboy for about 4 minutes. This helps the wort get better aeration and oxygen solubility than using an aquarium pump.

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this is from Wyeast's web page www.wyeastlab.com :

Dissolved oxygen ...

JRoche00 said:

(short of a direct shot from a tank of O2... which as homebrewers we really don't have handy)

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I'm a homebrewer, and I have an O2 tank...I think there's about 1000 others here too that also have o2 tanks.

JRoche00 said:

A Basic Brewing Radio interview with one of the Wyeast guys said that they had done research that concluded the best way to aerate (short of a direct shot from a tank of O2... which as homebrewers we really don't have handy) is to get a good shake on your carboy for about 4 minutes.

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If there is 4l worth of air and 18l worth of wort in the Carboy you have 800ml O2. Using the spreadsheet that I mentioned earlier, you can achieve ~9 ppm if only 15% of the oxygen are absorbed into the wort. This is actually within the recomended oxygen concentration for an Ale. Getting just 15% of the O2 dissolved is doesn't seem unreasonable either.

Still love my O2 with airstone though. Don't really like the idea of shaking ~50lb worth of wort and Carboy

Kai

I agree about shaking that beast... I really haven't played around with aeration much. I was just repeating (not precisely, but more or less) what I had heard from the guy. Not knocking the use of stones or anything. Where can you get a O2 tank anyways? Are they expensive? Here is the link from the episode of Basic Brewing Radio I was talking about:

http://basicbrewing.com/radio/mp3/bbr11-03-05.mp3

He gets into the aeration talk at about the 15 minute mark.

Cheers!

Jeff

JRoche00 said:

Where can you get a O2 tank anyways? Are they expensive?

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Lowe's or Home Depot or just about any hardware store...they're with the welding supplies...about $8.50 for a bottle that'll last 5-10 batches.