Partial Mash Saison - how's this look?

This was modified from a recipe in Randy Mosher's Radical Brewing:

OG: 1.056
FG: 1.012
Color: 5 SRM
IBU: 30.4
Yeast: Wyeast 3711, French Saison

2 lb Pilsner
2 lb Munich 10L
1 lb Flaked Wheat
3 lb Pilsen DME (late addition)
1 lb Piloncillo

1 oz Perle (60 min)
1 oz Sterling (15 min)
1 oz Saaz (5 min)
.5 oz Bitter Orange Peel (5 min)
.5 oz Crushed Coriander (5 min)
3 g Toasted Dandelion Root (5 min)
Pinch of another secret spice (5 min)

Will mash at 149 for 1 hour. Ferment in mid-70s.

What do you think?

Shameless bump.

I'm getting ready to brew a Saison myself, with 3711. From everything I've read, you might consider leaving out the orange peel, coriander, etc. The spice and flavor will come naturally from the yeast. I think they put this stuff in the book recipes because they know people will wind up fermenting it with Nottingham or another "neutral" yeast. If you're actually using a Saison yeast (especially a VSS like 3711), you want to give it some room to shine.

Style-wise, you're at the absolute lower limit for color and the absolute upper limit for TG. My guess is that your attenuation will be better than you think, particularly if you live somewhere warm and brew this soon and take advantage of the high temps. If your attenuation is around 90% (seems typical for 3711 from what we're reading), your alcohol will be too high for the style, and will be in Bière de Guarde range. So if that bothers you, maybe ease up on the DME to 2 lbs. As for color, you might consider bumping the 10L to 20L, or throwing a handful of 60L in there. A Saison should have a nice orange color.

Good luck!!

Thanks! I've been confused about the role of spices and orange peel in a Saison. I do have some funky spices I want to throw in - toasted dandelion root in particular - but I'm OK with ditching the orange peel. Just brewed a Wit, after all.

On color, will Crystal malt add to much body and 'chewiness' for this style?

It would be such a small amount of crystal that I don't think it would be a big deal. But the style is supposed to be pretty dry, so I'm going to use some Demerara sugar to help with that. It's also supposed to have a rocky head, which you're getting from the wheat, and I'm adding with carapils.

I figure instead of starting a new topic I'd post my partial mash Saison recipe I'd like some critique on here:

OG: 1.049
FG: 1.010
Color: 13.81 SRM
IBU: 32.8
Yeast: Wyeast 3711

3.75 lb Extra Light DME
1.5 lb Caramel Vienne
1.5 lb Caramel Munich

1lb Cane Sugar (60 min.)
1 oz Styrian Golding (60 min.)
2 oz Kent Golding (30 min.)
1 oz Spalt (5 min.)

Mash at 150 for 60 min.

I've been wanting to brew one too, so let's have some more critiquing!

I had also thought about adding just a hint of orange peel/coriander, but not as much as I would for a Wit. Just enough to maybe add some complexity. Not sure how it woudl compliment the funkyness of the yeast though.

Campbell, that sounds delicious. Right on target for the style! I might ease up on the hops and dark malt, but that's just down to personal taste.

Homercidal, I'd leave out the orange & coriander and just let the yeast do its thing. Try it "straight" and if it's not spicy enough for you, add something next time... I've just heard too many people complain that their saison was overpowered by small amounts of orange/coriander.

Think I'm going to go with the above recipe and throw in an ounce or two of Special B just to darken the color a bit. I have some lying around. Thoughts?

You mean your original recipe? You were on the absolute low end with your color (5°), so darkening it up is called for. Special B might add more of a plain brown color, whereas you want to get to "orange." I'm not sure. Does anyone with more AG experience want to advise on the best way to get more orange? My thought was a handful of caramel 60L.

Special B worked really well for my American Red. I think it's going to give it a nice color. Plus, I just ordered my ingredients so it looks like I'm 'locked in'.

Then Special B it is! Should be very tasty...

I have a Saison fermenting in my primary right now...

Specialty Grains


* 0.5 lbs. Belgian Caravienne

Fermentables


* 3.15 lbs. Pilsen Malt Syrup
* 1 lbs. Pilsen DME
* 1 lbs. Wheat DME

Boil Additions


* 1 oz. East Kent Goldings (60 min)
* 0.25 oz. Styrian Goldings (10 min)
* 0.25 oz. Saaz (10 min)
* 0.75 oz. Styrian Goldings (2 min)
* 0.75 oz. Saaz (2 min)


just to give you an idea, its a kit from Northern Brewer

it seems pretty simple compared to your guys recipe. let me know how yours come out, so i can brew it later

Will do! Same here. I'm calling this one my first "Kitchen Sink" beer because the grain bill's more complex than anything I've done before.

Sorry for the bump.

Question about the hops in original recipe by kyleobie. My beer software is showing his hop bill adding up to 46.2 IBUs (!). This is well above the Saison guidelines and also well above the IBUs predicted by his recipe. I can't imagine the AA% being different enough to account for the 50% increase. Am I doing something wrong here or is the original recipe off?