Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different

Interesting. Well, I guess I'll give the old cheap Montel Williams pressure pot a test run then finally...

Accidic said:

I'm not disputing the accuracy to the above. By nature, in fact, I am a rather cynical bastage... However, I would wonder just how much of the products many of us have been using have actually been tested by the FDA in the first place. Additionally, RRY is an innoculant of sorts as I understand it, capable of growing additional Monascus Purpureus. I don't know about the strains argument, but the conditions that the rice itself is treated with to create the RRY in the first place may very well be vastly different from the conditions we are growing them in. It would be interesting to see how much mono-k is present in the yeast (to start) and after fermenting if someone had the equipment, time, and resources for such a government project...

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Just to be clear, I am not seeking the statins from the RYR. And when I said to know about what you speak of, it was pointed at 'do your research' before you opt to buy a product, especially a supplement. Many supplements never get evaluated by the FDA. Not pointing this response to anyone in general, but I feel the same as Accidic, just saying.

saramc said:

Many supplements never get evaluated by the FDA. Not pointing this response to anyone in general, but I feel the same as Accidic, just saying.

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Agreed! Don't use supplements to make wine! Use whole grain culinary style RYR!

There is a lot of unkowns to the RYR. The bag of rice I have might be statin-free, or loaded with it. The same company's rice next time could be completely opposite because nobody knows WHERE they're getting it from or if they use the same source, etc... Even if they said they use the same source... how are you going to know without being able to test it?

It all goes back to what Sara said. If you're on statins, this may not be your thing. The rice you buy may have absolutely NO statins in it, but is it worth the risk? I'm not going to sit here and blow smoke up your tail and guarantee something, when nobody can do that. Do your own research and make up your own mind. I'm not on statins, my cholesterol isn't way high, and isn't too low (170-180 total) so I'm not scared whether it does or doesn't. That was MY choice. You'll have to make yours. Just sayin'.. lol.

As long as we're getting technical, I'm dying to know the mold strains in the Chinese Yeast cake, but I can't see any practical way of finding out. I think it's a strain of Aspergillus Oryzae, but can't be sure.

Can we save the cholesterol/red yeast debate for another thread please?

So I just "harvested" my first batch, got about 2 cups of liquid out of it. I used a japanese short grain sweet rice. It smells sweet, fruity with very light alcohol undertones. Haven't tasted it yet, I decided to pasteurize it (using the method in the Cider sticky) and refrigerate it first.

My question is, how long will it stay good stored in the fridge? I'm not used to wine "Expiring" (at least not for many many years or due to bad storage practices). I've seen people comment about drinking it within a few weeks, but I'm not sure if those were pasteurized or not.

Thanks,

Scott

So do I want to drink it shaken or separated?

sonofgrok said:

Can we save the cholesterol/red yeast debate for another thread please?

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Do you always stay on one single topic when you talk in real life? If someone talks of using RYR in their wine, do we have to just PM them with any info? How about if they ask about yeast? Or whether to use glass or plastic? Does every sentence have to use the words "Rice wine" in them or be deemed off topic?

Just harvested my 4 cup dry rice batch.

Details:
- Used Jasmine Rice
- Cooked using 1.5:1 water to rice (6cups water to 4 cups rice)
- Rice was soaked for an hour and rinsed briefly after
- Over cooked the hell out of the rice by accident

I also pasteurized the batch on the stove by holding it at 140-145 F for 30 minutes. This seemed to be the common practice for raw milk and the noly actual information I could find without delving too deeply into the search.

The first picture is of the batch just before harvesting today.

The next two are of the mould that formed on top.

The last two are of the actual wine before I pasteurized. It had a noticeable amount of carbonation at this point.

The next photo is of what was left of the rice after harvesting and the last is the rice wine after pasteurization and ~8 hours in the fridge. It is now still, and delicious!

Finally found the yeast balls. Went to all of the Asian markets near by and then searched for "Chinese Market" and found only 1. Went there with slim hopes and found a shelf with TONS of bags if them. Grabbed 2 for $7 each. Took 2 steps and found the red rice yeast!!! My new favorite place. Just went to Walmart and got a one gallon glass cookie jar. What a day (I should play the lottery while the streak is good). Can't wait to start this!

Question about the Bacteria spores on the top of rice. I was wondering if it is advised to scoop them and discard before harvesting?

Irishwrench said:

Question about the Bacteria spores on the top of rice. I was wondering if it is advised to scoop them and discard before harvesting?

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I don't bother. If I ever had some nastier looking stuff like black or green I probably would but I usually just have the white and don't worry.

Well, a week into my batch that had blue/gray looking mold with black dots in it, I guess koji. It smells ok, on the sweet side. Tilting the bottle it seemed that there was liquid on the top third of the rice and i thought maybe nothing was happening on the bottom, as I didn't see liquid pooling on the bottom. So today, I sterilized a spoon and pushed some of the mold on top down the middle towards the bottom for the hell of it thinking the rice on the bottom wasn't getting touched. But doing so, I could tell the rice was getting mushy and there is more liquid in the rice than I thought. I think it's gonna be ok.

This thread is crazy big now. I see a lot of people adding red yeast rice to the mix. What does this do for flavor / alcohol content?

Red Rice Yeast provides more enzymes (such as alpha/beta amylase etc) to the rice for breakdown and changes the flavor (fruitier). As I understand it there are no yeast actually in the RRY though (oddly enough) so make sure you use it in conjunction with the yeast balls.



I was thinking about some of the posts mentioning Thai variants that add some water to the rice. I was wondering if you have to add it right away or can you add it a little later in the process? Seems like it would be easy enough to keep it form contaminating and if done later there are probably enough yeast/koji colonies to prevent it from infecting the batch. Has anyone tried it this way or similar?

Accidic said:

Red Rice Yeast provides more enzymes (such as alpha/beta amylase etc) to the rice for breakdown and changes the flavor (fruitier). As I understand it there are no yeast actually in the RRY though (oddly enough) so make sure you use it in conjunction with the yeast balls.

I was thinking about some of the posts mentioning Thai variants that add some water to the rice. I was wondering if you have to add it right away or can you add it a little later in the process? Seems like it would be easy enough to keep it form contaminating and if done later there are probably enough yeast/koji colonies to prevent it from infecting the batch. Has anyone tried it this way or similar?

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As far as I know sato is all started with the water at the beggining. Doesn't mean it can't be tried though.

I'm doing a bakers yeast and red yeast rice batch (monascus) with added water, I started a seperate thread for it. Steamed rice, drained, the added 2 gallons distilled water. 7 days in and bubbling nicely. And sooooooo red. No yeast cake, which I believe has Aspergillus of some strain in with the yeast. After about 5 days, the monascus mold is fully propogated and all of the liquid went into the rice. I was told to expect this... the rice then liquefys, or so I'm hoping. Next up... red corn ferment! WOOT!
I will never buy amylase again.

How long does the wine keep once harvested and refrigerated?

pkrath84 said:

How long does the wine keep once harvested and refrigerated?

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Couldn't tell you because mine usually gets annihilated within a week. Two at the most. I would imagine though if bottled and pasteurized correctly you could store it for a while. The flavors will probably age and change in that time though significantly. This is kind if a "freshness" product if that makes any sense.

Does anyone have any recommendations for how to pasteurize this? I'm familiar with Pappers' bottle pasteurization method in the Cider forum, and have done it before, but since this will be still, I figured that I'd just pasteurize the whole batch in a pot before bottling. Do I just need to bring it to 150?F and call it good, or do I need to keep it at 150 for a certain amount of time?

sonofgrok said:

Couldn't tell you because mine usually gets annihilated within a week. Two at the most. I would imagine though if bottled and pasteurized correctly you could store it for a while. The flavors will probably age and change in that time though significantly. This is kind if a "freshness" product if that makes any sense.

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Gotcha. I'll just time this out then. I want to make a batch for my cousins birthday Cinco de Mayo weekend and another for my wedding.

Can this be scaled off the original recipe or has anyone scaled this to yield a few liters?

lustreking said:

Does anyone have any recommendations for how to pasteurize this? I'm familiar with that method, and have done it before, but since this will be still, I figured that I'd just pasteurize the whole batch in a pot before bottling. Do I just need to bring it to 150ºF and call it good, or do I need to keep it at 150 for a certain amount of time?

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Check out the first 'sticky' thread in the CIDER forum.

lakedawgs said:

Check out the first 'sticky' thread in the CIDER forum.

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This^^
I followed the instructions and pasteurized mine. It's been about a month and the flavor hasn't changed and there isn't any further fermentation in the bottle.

lakedawgs said:

Check out the first 'sticky' thread in the CIDER forum.

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Ha! I guess I forgot to finish typing. I meant to say

I'm familiar with Pappers' bottle pasteurization method in the Cider forum, and have done it before, but since this will be still, I figured that I'd just pasteurize the whole batch in a pot before bottling.

Does anyone have any info on batch pasteurizing before bottling?

Leadgolem said:

I've thought about using those dried rose buds they sell at my local Asian market. I'm kinda skeptical about getting any real aroma out of them though.

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My fiance makes tea with those. Youll get penty.

lustreking said:

Ha! I guess I forgot to finish typing. I meant to say

I'm familiar with Pappers' bottle pasteurization method in the Cider forum, and have done it before, but since this will be still, I figured that I'd just pasteurize the whole batch in a pot before bottling.

Does anyone have any info on batch pasteurizing before bottling?

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Heat it to 140f, should be fine. Some people say 160. Ethanol evaporates at 174f.... don't get too close!

It doesn't all evaporate instantly. Ethanol actually just lowers the boiling point of the solution a few degrees, similar to the way salt raises the boiling point a few degrees. It would have to be boiling for quite a while to loose an appreciable amount of sweet sweet booze. But since you won't be boiling at all you don't loose anything.

Wouldn't you lose some ethanol prior to reaching the boiling point of the liquid as well? I mean, you don't have to boil water to get some of it to evaporate.

Leadgolem said:

Wouldn't you lose some ethanol prior to reaching the boiling point of the liquid as well? I mean, you don't have to boil water to get some of it to evaporate.

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At that temp I wouldn't worry too much, it will be a negligible amount if it's only for 30 minutes.

No temperature data. An interesting article though, definitely won't be leaving my wine open... Not that I did anyway, but here's another reason not to.
http://bayblab.blogspot.com/2009/01/evaporation-rates-of-ethanol-solutions.html

It is absolutely stunning the difference between a higher water:rice ratio and a 1:1 ratio. Completely different product. Same rice, same pitch rate, so sweet and fragrant as opposed to super tart and dry. Today made a batch with 2 parts sweet rice, 1 part basmati, and a small amount of forbidden rice for color. Can't wait to see how it turns out!

I discovered this thread yesterday and am thrilled to try it. Living in Japan I have no problem getting glutinous rice and koji. But there are no Chinese markets around where I live, so unfortunately no yeast balls...
If I use koji to convert starches to sugar, what yeast should I best use for this ricewine? I've got some wineyeasts and aleyeasts in my fridge. Should I pitch the koji and yeast at the same time?
Thanks for sharing your wisdom!

I've batch pasteurized in the past for cider. I ran it a little above 150 but below the ethanol boiling point to simultaneously pasteurize and burn off some of the methanol. I don't know if there is any present in this but it is always a potential component in cider (at least when using pectic enzyme). This is one of the risks associated with making Apple Jack (plus I think it's technically illegal).

Making apple jack is perfectly legal. It's not distillation. /threadjack

Methanol evaporates around 148, but not sure if rice would produce it... pectin definitely will. Usually you get a lot of it in fruit ferments, while grains generally produce very little. With the molds in the mix I'm not sure if you'll get it or not, but I like the 150 mark a lot. I think I'll pastuerize at that too, when the time comes. Good thinking.
"Ain't nothin Eeeeelegal lessin you get caught" - Tickle

I'm pretty sure I went 154 but for the life of me I can't remember why.

As for the legality of Applejack, I wasn't claiming to know yay or nay but I believe I've heard that process referred to as freeze distillation and I thought it was considered to be illegal as well.

Ambrozyne said:

I discovered this thread yesterday and am thrilled to try it. Living in Japan I have no problem getting glutinous rice and koji. But there are no Chinese markets around where I live, so unfortunately no yeast balls...
If I use koji to convert starches to sugar, what yeast should I best use for this ricewine? I've got some wineyeasts and aleyeasts in my fridge. Should I pitch the koji and yeast at the same time?
Thanks for sharing your wisdom!

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No clue, you may get a better response by starting a new thread since it a whole different process in absence of yeast balls. My gut says to review the principles of sake making and follow that process.

Well I opened it... smells Awesome, it smells sweet and kind of fruity, and boozy as hell... Didn't taste it, because I had to go to work and I was in a hurry... When I get home I'm going to watch the airlock a bit, if it's over I"l cold crash it overnight and filter it sat am. I think it's gonna be alright.

Ambrozyne said:

I discovered this thread yesterday and am thrilled to try it. Living in Japan I have no problem getting glutinous rice and koji. But there are no Chinese markets around where I live, so unfortunately no yeast balls...
If I use koji to convert starches to sugar, what yeast should I best use for this ricewine? I've got some wineyeasts and aleyeasts in my fridge. Should I pitch the koji and yeast at the same time?
Thanks for sharing your wisdom!

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Sake making is too much work. Steam the rice, mix in the koji, use any yeast, then leave it to ferment. All the Sake recipes I've seen involved tons of steps. Mines using Hogdson Mills Bakers yeast. Some people like champagne yeast but whatever you have will work.
Read this whole long thread first, tons of awesome info.
Good Luck!