Armchair attorneys? Divorce problem...

I know someone who walked out of his long-term marriage recently. He just couldn't take her anymore. He has been back to the house a couple of times to help with yard work, watch the kids so his wife could work late, and reset breakers, that sort of thing.

Needless to say, his wife was not happy about him leaving, even though she doesn't appear to mind that he has been helping out.

The problem is that a few days ago after he fixed the breaker, he grabbed his golf clubs from the basement. This set her off and they got into an argument.

The next day he comes over to watch the kids after work and finds that she has taken a hammer to his '67 Cougar restoration car. It was just ready for a paint job. It's just devastated him. He's been working on that car as often as he can (as often as she let him) and has been doing all the work himself since he can't afford to spend any money to have someone else do it.

Does anyone know his rights? He's not living there anymore, but he still pays the bills and has come over to help. I wouldn't call it abandonment, and he would like an amicable relationship.

WOW....I feel for the guy. That's horrible.

It is not now, and unlikely to be in the near future, anything near amicable. Someone who will do something like that is harboring deep resentments which are just now starting to flow outward.

He needs to go and get some REAL advice from a REAL attorney, who will probably tell him to get a legal separation in order to protect his interests. He needs to stop deluding himself. She needs her leash yanked.

I agree, and we told him to see an attorney ASAP. She's already talked to one, and I'm afraid she will use this to her advantage. But I don't think she will see him going out of his way to help her around the house anymore either.

He wanted to rent a trailer today and load up his important things, but we told him to wait, because we didn't know if he could legally remove certain items from the property.

It's upsetting to my wife and I to see her this way. It was bad enough to see him leave, but now that he is doing his best to make it as smooth as possible for them both, she does this over a set of clubs. He was upset at himself for taking them in the first place, but I think he thought he might play golf with his sons, or pass them down to them or something. He doesn't even play himself anymore.

Hell Hath No Fury...

WOW!!!!

He defintely needs to get an attorney asap. And he needs to get some stuff out before a legal separation is inacted. If they get legally separated and HE left, for the time being, chances are he won't be able to touch anything in the house without her permission, since he left. Before legal separation he has as much right to anything in the house as she does, but after that is surely to change. I was separated last year for awhile (not "legally" as Texas doesn't acknowledge separation) but once the actual divorce papers were filed, what I had was mine and what she had was hers, until we would have gone to court and reached a settlement. Fortunately, my wife and I worked out our issues and got back together after 9 months. Worst year of my life, but probably the best thing we ever did for our marriage. Maybe they can find a way to make it work, but not if she (or he) bottles up that kind of anger and resentment. Good luck to your friends.

definitely not amicable, definitely not healthy.

i know that there are two sides to every story, i'm sure that's the case here but, i would think, he can use her instability issues as grounds to get full custody of the kids.

They are very nearly of retirement age. They recently adopted a 13 yo girl in their care who has a bit of autism and diabetes. We wondered why he would do that when he obviously was very tired of foster kids, and he said he she would have done it anyway, or made his life hell for not helping her. He cares for her, but probably wouldn't have adopted her without his wife's insistence.

And they are not going to get back together.

Oh, yeah. I forgot to mention that their son is having a wedding reception at their house in about 3 weeks... Their son is already legally married, but they wanted to have a ceremony for the family and friends. They have a kid and they got married when he was sent to Iraq last year. I can't see both parent being at the wedding reception with this kind of animosity.

Miranda rights? He killed her right?

You need to tell your friend this:

"I don't think there is an easy way to say it.
Dude, you gotta move on, man. That is not your house anymore, that is not your backyard anymore, so why are you changing her fuses and cleaning her backyard? You need to get yourself a new life, a new place, a new girlfriend (or two ). No more visits to your ex-wife's house, that's just creepy. Nothing good can come out of it.
BTW, sorry to say, and I don't care what anybody else says: these are not your kids anymore either, some other dude (or dudes) will raise them up for you, you'll just get to see them on some weekends and pay child support from now on. Get used to it and move on with your life."

Nightmare.

IMO, regardless of the marital situation I think he can sue her for damages to his personal property...

yeah, he can/should definitely sue her for damages on that cougar as a tort claim, but it would be a separate proceeding from the divorce one. Tell him to get a real attorney asap!

Bret86944 said:

Miranda rights? He killed her right?

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^ = awesome

homebrewer_99 said:

IMO, regardless of the marital situation I think he can sue her for damages to his personal property...

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Well, I think technically it's also 50% her car, since they are married and no papers have been filed yet. I haven't seen the car to know what amount of damage has been done, but he told my wife that he had talked to the body shop and told them he would like to borrow a trailer to haul it over there and get it ready to paint... The same day he found it hammered. He was that close!

He spoke with the police and they said he can get anything he wants until papers are filed and he can even ask them to be there to make sure nobody gets hurt and as witness so that his wife can't make wild claims.

Your buddy needs to get ALL his stuff out before she sets fire to it. He should also read this book Screw the *****: Divorce Tactics for Men I think he can read/download it for free here: http://www.kickasstorrents.com/screw-the-*****-divorce-tactics-for-men-t3354834.html
Regards, GF.

Bitches be crazy.

Scooby_Brew said:

BTW, sorry to say, and I don't care what anybody else says: these are not your kids anymore either, some other dude (or dudes) will raise them up for you, you'll just get to see them on some weekends and pay child support from now on. Get used to it and move on with your life."

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Uhhhhh....

no... they are still his kids and you can't just "move on" and forget about them.

Scooby_Brew said:

BTW, sorry to say, and I don't care what anybody else says: these are not your kids anymore either, some other dude (or dudes) will raise them up for you,

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Wow... I didn't know my daughter's deadbeat biological father was on this forum. That's the worst thing I've read in a very, very long time.

Walker said:

... they are still his kids and you can't just "move on" and forget about them.

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+1.

Is he renting a place elsewhere? Without a legal or clear separation it's hard to establish separate property. I doubt he can get any compensation for the car being jacked up. Besides, it wasn't the golf clubs that pissed her off. It just made the situation clear to her and she blew her top. Definitely talk to a divorce lawyer that doesn't advertise in the penny saver and don't be an ass to her, regardless of her antics. Guys being dicks to soon-to-be-exes always regret it when it comes to being in front of a judge. Lastly, don't tell the kids that their mother is being unreasonable or a ***** or anything like that. The last thing you want to do is put the kids in a position where they have to choose sides. They're the ones who are really getting shafted in this deal. [/2ȼ]

We need to make one thing perfectly clear - These people are very near retirement age. The kids are full grown adults and in fact he is now living with his son's family until he can get a place.

The daughter they adopted is 13 with some mild autism and diabetes. She needs care, which I assume his wife will provide with him visiting. The "son" who lives with them is a foster child who is in process of being adopted.

Except for the car thing, she hasn't been too awful overall, just bitter and angry and what you'd expect from a woman who's husband of 38 years has suddenly (to her) left her. She's never liked the car. He got it for FREE from a guy and has put minimal money into it, as it came with nearly everything except a motor and trans, which he got from a junker for next to nothing, and it needed paint and some minor body work.

Somehow she felt threatened that he would want to occasionally spend time in the garage fixing it up. She has no clue. When her son wouldn't let her see her grandkid that evening, she made the comment, "Just because of some piece of metal?"

She had no clue what having a project like that car that he could share with me meant to him and I. To her, it was just a waste of time and money. And she couldn't see that the reason her son didn't want her to see his kid was because she was pretty unstable.

Unless she gets help she will very soon find that she has no family who will visit. She will have no shoulder to cry on. I feel bad because right now I don't feel pity for her, and I really think I should. But you know the saying, "You reap what you sow."

my wife who is in her last year in law school said for him to file a police report and get a quote on how much it will cost to repair then depending on which state he lives in will determine how their assets are split and he can use that quote as a means to pay her share.

1. Have him get an attorney.

2. Have him get an attorney.

3. Have him get an attorney.

4. Have him get an attorney.

Homercidal said:

She had no clue what having a project like that car that he could share with me meant to him and I. To her, it was just a waste of time and money. And she couldn't see that the reason her son didn't want her to see his kid was because she was pretty unstable.

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So these are your parents?

If so - don't pick sides. It is bad enough her husband is leaving her with a special needs child. She doesn't need to lose her son and grandchild as well.

Homercidal said:

Well, I think technically it's also 50% her car, since they are married and no papers have been filed yet. I haven't seen the car to know what amount of damage has been done, but he told my wife that he had talked to the body shop and told them he would like to borrow a trailer to haul it over there and get it ready to paint... The same day he found it hammered. He was that close!

He spoke with the police and they said he can get anything he wants until papers are filed and he can even ask them to be there to make sure nobody gets hurt and as witness so that his wife can't make wild claims.

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I think it depends who's name(s) is/are on the title...

kryolla said:

my wife who is in her last year in law school said for him to file a police report and get a quote on how much it will cost to repair then depending on which state he lives in will determine how their assets are split and he can use that quote as a means to pay her share.

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This is what I am thinking. But I don't think he's that kind of person. More likely he will put the car thing off to the side and just deal with the divorce and later he may will just fix it up for himself. He will not want to do anything that would complicate the process.

MeatyPortion said:

1. Have him get an attorney.

2. Have him get an attorney.

3. Have him get an attorney.

4. Have him get an attorney.

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He's talked to an attorney and is going to get what he can of his before filing papers.

homebrewer_99 said:

I think it depends who's name(s) is/are on the title...

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Not sure about that. In some state anyway anything that is acquired during the marriage is considered marriage property, and would be considered equal value shared between the two. I have no idea what Michigan's law is. It would be hard for the courts to know just exactly what each item in possession means to each person, and so I think that is why they do this.

BeerWars said:

So these are your parents?

If so - don't pick sides. It is bad enough her husband is leaving her with a special needs child. She doesn't need to lose her son and grandchild as well.

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No, not my parents. I consider him like a father though, especially since my own father passed away a few years ago.

I had not intended on picking sides, but after this incident with the car, and after the phone call his wife had with my wife last night, I have chosen sides. In the very least I'll bite my tongue and try to stay out of it, but if anyone asks, I'll tell them that she is "temporarily insane".

She wonders why her kids have not talked to her much or given "support" (my wife has, but she doesn't see it that way). She has said that her doctor (i assume this means she is seeing a therapist??) says her husband is "going through a mid-life crisis". He's like 62! he isn't having a crisis, he's tired of her crap and wants to have a decent rest of his life!

Scooby_Brew said:

BTW, sorry to say, and I don't care what anybody else says: these are not your kids anymore either, some other dude (or dudes) will raise them up for you, you'll just get to see them on some weekends and pay child support from now on. Get used to it and move on with your life."

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This is the biggest load of **** I've heard in a long time. If you truly believe that, then you should NOT be allowed to breed under any circumstances. It is unbelievably selfish to think that your biological children could ever possibly belong to anyone else, regardless of who raises them. And whoever that may be, if you don't take an active role in monitoring their upbringing, either by being there for them yourself, or by keeping an eye on the ex and her new husband, then you should be shot.

Homercidal said:

Well, I think technically it's also 50% her car, since they are married and no papers have been filed yet.

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If I'm not mistaken, Michigan is NOT a community property state. Which on a basic level means that anything that is purchased in his name is wholly his alone. I know that Michigan has a few oddball variations to this idea and I don't know if it would apply to the car or not. But if the car is titled to only his name, then I'm pretty sure it belongs to him alone. As to whether or not he can press charges against her, I really couldn't say one way or another. But everyone is right on with the recommendation to get an attorney. She has obviously lost whatever sanity she had to begin with (I'm assuming it wasn't much of he's giving up on her after 38 years) so who knows what else she'll try to pull in the future.

Reminds me of an old joke. Do you know why divorces cost so much? Because they're worth it.

Scooby_Brew said:

BTW, sorry to say, and I don't care what anybody else says: these are not your kids anymore either, some other dude (or dudes) will raise them up for you, you'll just get to see them on some weekends and pay child support from now on. Get used to it and move on with your life."

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i'd hate to be your f-ing kids.

jmendez29 said:

As to whether or not he can press charges against her, I really couldn't say one way or another.

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"Pressing charges" is something only one, and only one person has the choice to do and that is the prosecutor. All you can do is file a police report. The "pressing charges" nonsense is something from TV. Now, there are factors involved in the prosecutor's decision to charge a person, but they are many and varied, but it is never and never the victim's decision. If a prosecutor does this they certainly acting in an unethical if not illegal manner.

But if the car is titled to only his name, then I'm pretty sure it belongs to him alone.

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Negative. It is all about how your state views property with regards to marriage. Is this marital prop? Separate prop? Mixed? Title is irrelevant for property acquired during the marriage . . .

Without a legal or clear separation it's hard to establish separate property.

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No, separation is not a major issue with division of property and usually is just a marking point, ie, the marriage is toast and the parties have already begun to scuttle/hide assets. The probate court has the power to distribute property according to the state probate code. There are three basic approaches to division of property used by states:


1. community property (all prop acquired during marriage is deemed owned 1/2 by each spouse and all property owned prior to the marriage or acquired by gift/bequest is deemed separate prop);

2. equitable division of all property, whether acquired before or after the marriage;

3. equitable division of marital property (each spouse takes separate prop and court divides prop acquired during marriage on equitable basis and this is NOT simply 1/2, it is EQUITABLE).

Of course, if the parties enter into an agreement as to how they want the property distributed they can do so. Even so, they still must have the court order it, and courts often ignore an absurd agreement.

Does anyone know his rights?

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As for the destroyed Cougar, see above. She probably can destroy the asset without fearing criminal trouble. And as for destruction of property, it is her asset as well. HOWEVER, in the division of the property, courts will look at whether a party has dissipated/diminished the value of marital assets by wrongful conduct.