Preparing for my first all-grain, need some help with water

So I recently got the report from the tests run on my drinking water from my commune (Yes, the smallest administrative municipalities of Sweden are called "communes"). Therefore, I want to get a head start in preparation for my first all-grain brew.

I want to brew a dark lager. I haven't yet decided on a recipe, but it's going to be a classic dark lager.

So, here's the relevant info on my water:
as mg/l (practically equivalent to ppm)
pH: 8.4
Cl: 36
SO4: 5.8
Ca: 14
Mg: 1.9
Na: 30
Alkalinity as HCO3: 59 (Internet tells me this equals 48 CaCO3)

So as you can see, it's soft-ish, has a high pH (I think?) and is in general not too plastered with minerals. Water in Sweden is lightly chlorinated, but so lightly that you cannot taste it. I'm going to boil my water before brewing it, which is supposed to get rid of the chlorine, just to be sure.

What I'm not sure of is what I need to add. I get that I want a pH around 5.4, and I'm not quite ready to invest in a pH-meter yet, and pH strips are too hard to read to give any useful results. Minerals doesn't seem like anything I'll need to intervene with.

Help?

I use this: http://morebeer.com/view_product/19873//5.2_ph_Stabilizer_-_1_lb

Seems like the best option if you don't want to measure and adjust pH.

A buffer, ey? Seems like the sleek and simple solution. And my favourite brewing store has it. Am I in luck or what.

Yeah there is some debate on here as to how well it works but I use it with success and know other who do as well. Make sure it is chlorine in your water and not chloramine. Chloramine does not evaporate or boil off, and needs to be filtered out.

It didn't say what it was in the report, unfortunately. But I found a forum for aquarium enthusiasts, who also hate chloramines, not listing my commune as one of the chloramine ones, but one of the communes using ozone to purge. I don't know if they use any residuals (but in that case presumably chlorine) - this island is pretty small and I don't know if there's much need for it.

5.2 will load up your water with sodium and will not adjust the pH to 5.2. It has been discussed here endlessly and both the theoretical reasons why it does not work and lab measurements showing that it does not work have been presented. As I have noted in a current thread (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/5-2-stabilizer-vs-brewing-salts-268822/) it is reported to work well by those who don't own a pH meter (e.g. previous poster in #4) but has never been reported to work by anyone who does. If the maker had any decency he'd take it off the market.

But a buffer is not the right way to set mash pH in any case. If you use a little sauermalz, which is the way lager is traditionally brewed, your pH should fall into the right range. Depending on how dark your beer is (i.e. how much dark malt you use and the type) 2% sauermalz should get your pH right about where it ought to be. Best to check with a pH meter though.

Skip the 5.2 pH Stabilizer (much ducumentation says its worthless), read the Primer at the top and use campden tablets for any chlorine/chloramine issues.

WRT chlorine/chloramine: if you can't smell it when pouring a sample back and forth between two glasses it is at a low enough level that it won't hurt you and there is no need to treat by standing, boiling or metabite. If you can smell it right from the tap then try letting it stand first and then doing the pour test. Standing over night will get the chlorine but not chloramine. If it fails the sniff test after standing over night then use a fraction (1/4 or less) of a campden tablet per 20 L.

Okay, so if I make a dark lager with a bit of roast malt, I should use maybe 1% of sour malt, and a teaspoon of calcium chloride?

Hm, there are some hand-held pH-meters around 100$, with an accuracy of 0.2 pH. That would be good enough. Not right now, though.

Dare I suggest but what would happen if you tried brewing with just the water that you have and not adding anything?

pcollins said:

Dare I suggest but what would happen if you tried brewing with just the water that you have and not adding anything?

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+1

One of these days I'll get into water chemistry but for most folks the water they drink on a daily basis is usually just fine. I haven't done enough studying to know if your numbers indicate a completely whacked water profile but I would bet if you just went with what comes out of your tap, at least for your first few all grain batches, you will get good results at the very least.

One question I would ask is if this is your first all grain what were you doing to your water when you were doing extract or partial mashes? If nothing and your beer was good then I see no reason to go forward with all grain in the same manner. Get your process down then start messing with your water.

BoogieBrandBooze said:

One question I would ask is if this is your first all grain what were you doing to your water when you were doing extract or partial mashes? If nothing and your beer was good then I see no reason to go forward with all grain in the same manner. Get your process down then start messing with your water.

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Yes, but there is the mashing process in all-grain which is water chemistry dependent. Boiling extract, not so much.

Tubba said:

Okay, so if I make a dark lager with a bit of roast malt, I should use maybe 1% of sour malt, and a teaspoon of calcium chloride?

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That should work out fine.

Tubba said:

Hm, there are some hand-held pH-meters around 100$, with an accuracy of 0.2 pH. That would be good enough. Not right now, though.

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0.2 is better than test strips but if possible you should have a meter that reads to 0.1 or 0.05. These are available in the States for under $100. Don't know about over there though.

It is water chemistry dependent but there is a tremendous amount of flexibility.

Yes, it's nice to be in a 5.2-5.4 range but you'll still end up with good beer if you're outside of that.

Yes, it's also nice to have good percentages of the right salts etc., but you've got reasonable water on that front anyway.

I'm cheap and I like things simple. If I can end up with good beer and not have to do anything extra or buy any more gear or chemicals then I'm in! If the pH meter is too expensive or difficult to get then just go with your tap water and see what happens.

Tubba said:

Yes, but there is the mashing process in all-grain which is water chemistry dependent. Boiling extract, not so much.

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I suppose there is however, with extract brewing you also have the added issue of whatever was in the water the manufacturer used to make the extract. Whatever is in their water ends up in your boil kettle via the extract. I'm going to assume you weren't accounting for any of that (though maybe you were). If not, then I would take it just as easy with your first few all grain batches. I bet they'll be great, and if not, well, then see if messing with the water improves them after you've accounted for everything else.

I'm with Pcollins in doing what I can to keep things simple. Not to say that some folks can't take that attitude to an extreme and just become downright lazy but I truly believe the less you mess, the better off you usually are. Exceptions exist, of course!

Either way, do what YOU feel would help your beer. That's the beauty of the hobby. FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!

pcollins said:

Dare I suggest but what would happen if you tried brewing with just the water that you have and not adding anything?

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The beer would turn out fine but can be made better by controlling mash pH downwards with acid (sauermalz = acidulated malt). Calcium chloride is kind of the chicken soup of brewing. It can't hurt.

ajdelange said:

That should work out fine.



0.2 is better than test strips but if possible you should have a meter that reads to 0.1 or 0.05. These are available in the States for under $100. Don't know about over there though.

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Hm, there's a one that's just a tad more expensive with a precision of 0.01pH and an accuracy of +-0.02 pH. I guess I'll go with that then, when I order one.