Vienna Lager Brad's Vienna Lager

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

bradsul

Flyfisherman/brewer
HBT Supporter
Joined
Sep 12, 2006
Messages
4,889
Reaction score
44
Location
Ontario, Canada
Recipe Type
All Grain
Yeast
White Labs WLP830 (German Lager)
Yeast Starter
2L @ 1.040
Batch Size (Gallons)
25L
Original Gravity
1.052
Final Gravity
1.012
Boiling Time (Minutes)
90
IBU
25
Color
5
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
21 Days @ 50F
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
31 Days @ 34F
Tasting Notes
Very nice toasty flavour with a great malt background.
This was my first lager attempt and I have to say it beat all my expectations. Everyone who has tried this beer has loved it. It has that great toasty flavour from the vienna malt and the hops bitterness nicely balances any sweetness that may be present making for a very drinkable beer.

For those who enjoy making them, this also qualifies as a SMaSH recipe.

Code:
Brad's Vienna Lager

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------
03-A  European Amber Lager, Vienna Lager

Min OG:  1.046   Max OG:  1.052
Min IBU:    18   Max IBU:    30
Min Clr:    10   Max Clr:    16  Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------
Batch Size (L):          25.00    Wort Size (L):     25.00
Total Grain (kg):         6.00
Anticipated OG:          1.052    Plato:             12.83
Anticipated SRM:           5.1
Anticipated IBU:          25.5
Brewhouse Efficiency:       70 %
Wort Boil Time:             90    Minutes

Formulas Used
-------------
Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used:   Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops:         2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops:      10 %

   %     Amount     Name                          Origin        Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 100.0     6.00 kg.  Vienna Malt                   Germany        1.037      3

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.

   Amount     Name                              Form    Alpha  IBU  Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 50.00 g.     Hallertauer                       Pellet   4.00  23.4  45 min.
 15.00 g.     Hallertauer                       Pellet   4.00   2.1  15 min.

  Amount      Name                           Type      Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  1.00 Unit(s)Irish Moss                     Fining    10 Min.(boil) 


Yeast
-----
White Labs WLP830 German Lager


Mash Schedule
-------------
Mash Name: Vienna Lager Double Decoction

Total Grain kg:     6.00
Total Water Qts:   15.93 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water L:   15.07 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass:   0.00
Grain Temp:        23.28 C


                     Step   Rest   Start   Stop  Heat     Infuse   Infuse  Infuse
Step Name            Time   Time   Temp    Temp  Type     Temp     Amount  Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Protein                5     45    127     127   Infuse   135       15.07   2.51
Saccharification      45     60    150     150   Decoc    210        5.58   1.36 (Decoc Thickness)
Mash Out              20     15    168     168   Decoc    212        5.47   3.13 (Decoc Thickness)

[ATTACH]7662[/ATTACH]

Total Water Qts:           15.93 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water L:             15.07 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume L:       19.08 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
All infusion amounts are in Liters.
All infusion ratios are Liters/Kilograms.

Step Time for Decoction Steps represent how far back in time the Decoction was pulled.
Infusion amounts for Decoction Steps represent the amount pulled for the Decoction.
Infusion ratios for Decoction Steps represent the Decoction Thickness.

  • 2L starter, pitched at fermentation temperature
  • primary 21 days at 50F (no diacytel rest)
  • lager 31 days at 35F
  • carbonate to 2 volumes
The recipe is attached as a Promash Recipe file and also in BeerXML format as generated by the Promash conversion tool.
 

Attachments

  • brads_vienna_lager_double_decoction.jpg
    brads_vienna_lager_double_decoction.jpg
    78.9 KB · Views: 5,879
  • Brad's Vienna Lager.rec
    26.8 KB · Views: 561
  • Brad's Vienna Lager.xml
    3.7 KB · Views: 605
Use the same mash schedule as the main recipe in the OP.

Code:
Brad's Vienna Lager

Batch Size (L):          19.00    Wort Size (L):     19.00
Total Grain (kg):         4.56
Anticipated OG:          1.052    Plato:             12.83
Anticipated SRM:           5.1
Anticipated IBU:          25.5
Brewhouse Efficiency:       70 %
Wort Boil Time:             90    Minutes

   %     Amount     Name                          Origin        Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 100.0     4.56 kg.  Vienna Malt                   Germany        1.037      3

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.

   Amount     Name                              Form    Alpha  IBU  Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 38.00 g.     Hallertauer                       Pellet   4.00  23.4  45 min.
 11.40 g.     Hallertauer                       Pellet   4.00   2.1  15 min.

  Amount      Name                           Type      Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  0.76 Unit(s)Irish Moss                     Fining    10 Min.(boil) 

Yeast
-----
White Labs WLP830 German Lager
The recipe is attached as a Promash Recipe file and also in BeerXML format as generated by the Promash conversion tool.

View attachment Brad's Vienna Lager (US 5 Gallon).rec

View attachment Brad's Vienna Lager (US 5 Gallon).xml
 
I dig your style, I have been thinking about making a vienna lager but was afraid that using only vienna malt might be plain. You have inspired me to try it anyway and see how it turns out.
 
I dig your style, I have been thinking about making a vienna lager but was afraid that using only vienna malt might be plain. You have inspired me to try it anyway and see how it turns out.

Don't worry about it turning out plain. Vienna has a ton of flavor.
 
Don't worry about it turning out plain. Vienna has a ton of flavor.
+1 - Vienna has a fantastic toasty/malty flavour that works really well just on it's own. If you really want to put this beer over the top you can do a decoction mash, but it's definitely not necessary.
 
Hey Bradsul I tried and loved your stout. I hope to make this one this week. A few Q's
1)Starter: how many days in advance did you start this before brewing?
2)For 2L how much extract did you use?
3)If you don't decoc mash I assume you recommend step infusion?? I was going to raise mash temp in pot, remove pot from stove and cover with sleeping bag, return to burner raise temps....etc

Thanks Charlie
 
Hey Bradsul I tried and loved your stout. I hope to make this one this week. A few Q's
1)Starter: how many days in advance did you start this before brewing?
2)For 2L how much extract did you use?
3)If you don't decoc mash I assume you recommend step infusion?? I was going to raise mash temp in pot, remove pot from stove and cover with sleeping bag, return to burner raise temps....etc

Thanks Charlie
Glad to hear you liked the stout! :mug:

1. I usually do the starter 2 days ahead for fresh yeast, 3 days for older yeast.

2. I honestly can't remember but I like my starters to be 1.040 gravity, I just use promash to figure it out.

3. I use the decoction to generate the melanoidin flavours so if you don't want to do the decoction I would just do a single infusion mash since you won't get the flavours. You could use a method they use on scottish ales that I've heard works really well. Take the first 4L (1 gallon) or so of the first runnings and boil the heck out of it to reduce it down to 0.5L (1 pint) or so. That should build up some serious melanoidins as well I would think. I've not tried it myself but I've been thinking about it.

Cheers! :mug:
 
Glad to hear you liked the stout! :mug:

1. I usually do the starter 2 days ahead for fresh yeast, 3 days for older yeast.

2. I honestly can't remember but I like my starters to be 1.040 gravity, I just use promash to figure it out.

3. I use the decoction to generate the melanoidin flavours so if you don't want to do the decoction I would just do a single infusion mash since you won't get the flavours. You could use a method they use on scottish ales that I've heard works really well. Take the first 4L (1 gallon) or so of the first runnings and boil the heck out of it to reduce it down to 0.5L (1 pint) or so. That should build up some serious melanoidins as well I would think. I've not tried it myself but I've been thinking about it.

Cheers! :mug:

Thanks. I can figure out the starte OG w/ brewsmith, I think. Now you have me thinking about decoc. I saw kaisers video. Well done but looks to be a long brew day. I guess multi step is for undermodified malt. Since Vienna is fully mod the only purpose is melanidons. If I do not decoc I guess I should add melanoidin malt?? crystal 20? about a lb or .5 kg

If I brew a decoc, and the wife has issues due to brew day length I sending her to you:D
 
Thanks. I can figure out the starte OG w/ brewsmith, I think. Now you have me thinking about decoc. I saw kaisers video. Well done but looks to be a long brew day. I guess multi step is for undermodified malt. Since Vienna is fully mod the only purpose is melanidons. If I do not decoc I guess I should add melanoidin malt?? crystal 20? about a lb or .5 kg

If I brew a decoc, and the wife has issues due to brew day length I sending her to you:D
The melanoidin would work for sure, I wouldn't go for the crystal malt though, it will add the wrong flavours to your beer. As for how much melanoidin, I'm not sure, I've not used it. I know Jamil is big on it's use, if you can find some of his recipes I'm sure you can figure out a decent amount. The decoction is definitely a longer brew day, my triple decoction munich dunkel ran out to 8 hours. Fun day though. :D
 
I failed to brew this weekend:( I didn't think I had enough time to get the starter going. Plus my fermenting room got down into the low 40'sF(5C) and felt this might be a little too cold. I will have to wait 2 weeks before I can brew because I will be out of town next week. After much reading and you 'tube viewing' I decided to man up and decoc brew this bad boy. The week after I brew the Vienna I want to brew an Oktoberfest using the yeast cake:cross: Should be quite an adventure.
 
Finally brewed the double decoc of this recipe. Wow what a day. Took over 6 hours but went smooth. My efficiency was really high...for me. Usually I am happy with 75% but on this brew I got 84%. OG was 1.054, was expecting 1.049. Wonderful aroma during the decoction boil. It was extremely light in color. It is now fermenting wrapped in an old sleeping bag in my old base,ent coal room with temps in the high 40's low 50's(8-12C). Hope to lager in the garage for the month of March.
Decoction brewing raises ones efficiency but at a cost of propane and time. As this one finishes primary I will make another decoction...Maerzen:tank:
Thanks for the recipe Brad. Best, Charlie
PS I'll let you know how it taste.
 
Finally brewed the double decoc of this recipe. Wow what a day. Took over 6 hours but went smooth. My efficiency was really high...for me. Usually I am happy with 75% but on this brew I got 84%. OG was 1.054, was expecting 1.049. Wonderful aroma during the decoction boil. It was extremely light in color. It is now fermenting wrapped in an old sleeping bag in my old base,ent coal room with temps in the high 40's low 50's(8-12C). Hope to lager in the garage for the month of March.
Decoction brewing raises ones efficiency but at a cost of propane and time. As this one finishes primary I will make another decoction...Maerzen
Thanks for the recipe Brad. Best, Charlie
PS I'll let you know how it taste.
You just about described my Vienna and the decoction I did in late January to a tee...and I also plan on using some washed yeast from it to make a Marzen very soon (then an Oktoberfest after that). I also got 1.054 OG and an efficiency of 84% (spooky). I agree the decoction boil aroma is awesome towards the end. I racked it to a secondary keg at 15 days @ 1.014 and it already tasted decent (I usually hate green beer).
 
You just about described my Vienna and the decoction I did in late January to a tee...and I also plan on using some washed yeast from it to make a Marzen very soon (then an Oktoberfest after that). I also got 1.054 OG and an efficiency of 84% (spooky). I agree the decoction boil aroma is awesome towards the end. I racked it to a secondary keg at 15 days @ 1.014 and it already tasted decent (I usually hate green beer).

Crack of dawn tomorrow am double decocting a Boh Pils. Water, grains are ready to roll. Hope I will be too. Since it is 12:04 AM I guess the brew is actually today, in a few hours. Gotta go to bed.
 
Crack of dawn tomorrow am double decocting a Boh Pils. Water, grains are ready to roll. Hope I will be too. Since it is 12:04 AM I guess the brew is actually today, in a few hours. Gotta go to bed.
No effin' way. I'll give you one guess what I'm doing right now!
 
No effin' way. I'll give you one guess what I'm doing right now!

Are you my clone:D
Nailed my SG, 1.056!! 80% efficiency(4%drop from last batch)used part of the last yeast cake, pitched at noon, bubbling when I got home at 6:00PM at 50F. Next up...Oktoberfest-Marzen. Using same yeast I pulled off the cake, just honing the recipe.
 
Well my Pils ended up being Amber because what I thought was CaraPils was...something way darker...like 90L or something.:( It will still taste and look good but it ain't what I was shooting for.
 
Sweet! I am going to brew this recipe this weekend, breaking the lager and decoction cherry on the same day (probably sunday, maybe monday) this holiday weekend. Thanks!
 
did a double decoction yesterday, holy long brewday! the smell coming from the brew pot was amazing, i have never smelled things like that with just a single malt before. If this tastes anything like it smells this is going to be a regular!
 
I just tasted a hydrometer sample of this today. I used German malt, and did a double decoction. It's a bit too light in color, to be to style. It looks to be around a 5 or 6 SRM, but of course that's expected with no darker malts in the grist.

I scaled it down to be a "real" 5 gallon batch, at least by US standards. ;)

There is no trace of diacetyl, but I decided to do a brief diacetyl rest anyway today, bringing it up from 52 degrees to 62 degrees. I'll rack to secondary tomorrow, and begin the lagering. I used homegrown hallertauer at 15 minutes.

This is really, really good! It's very clear, and almost sparkling in clarity. It's got a wonderful mouthfeel, and a nice maltiness. It finished at 1.010. I got 27 IBUs, using Tinseth.

Thanks for the recipe! I can't wait until April 15th-ish to try my first taste after lagering!
 
I don't understand the BJCP on vienna lager, even with a triple decoction it doesn't get anywhere near as dark as they think it should be. I can't bring myself to add some carafa or munich for no other reason than colour. But that's just me and I don't enter competitions. :D
 
The SRM is really low on this, shouldn't you add like 2oz of black patent or something to get a slightly darker vienna color?
 
The SRM is really low on this, shouldn't you add like 2oz of black patent or something to get a slightly darker vienna color?
When I'm trying to brew one to style I use a little Carafa Special II (i.e. dehusked, ~410 SRM). I think my last one used 1.5 oz but it had some dark munich too.
 
Brewed this a while back. Drank it pretty fast. Added some carapils i had left over from another beer just to get the color right for style.

Good beer. Wouldn't make it again because it's a smash beer, therefore simple. And that's to point. Really helps you understand what the ingredients taste like, which helps me think about what will happen to future recipes if I add vienna malt or hallertau.
 
After much anguish and deliberation, I've decided to try this first w/o doing my first decoction attempt.

So, I'm going single infusion and thinking about a mash temp of about 154 for 60 minutes. So, no melanoidins for me :(

But, we'll see how she goes. I still have high hopes for it and I'm beginning the brew now so if anyone has any tips or suggestions, feel free to let me know

Cheers
 
duffman2 said:
After much anguish and deliberation, I've decided to try this first w/o doing my first decoction attempt.

So, I'm going single infusion and thinking about a mash temp of about 154 for 60 minutes. So, no melanoidins for me :(
Do the decoction I did it for my 2nd all grain and its not hard at all, I just did plenty of reasearch and watched youtube videos on it, it'll help so much with the traditional malt flavor
 
I have brewed this recipe 4-5 times now and I love it. I have brewed it multiple ways as well, decoction, single infusion, multiple infusion. It's an awesome beer that shows how great a simple recipe lager really can be.
 
I would really like to try this beer out but I seem to be struggling with understanding the mash schedule. Could someone help me the following:

-How long is this mash in total?
-At what time in the mash are the decoctions pulled and added back in? I don't understand the note " step time represent how far back decoction is pulled" How far from where?
-Is the rest time the duration of the rest or the time in the mash that the rest begins?
-Do i pull the decoction and heat it to infusion temperature, and just keep it boiling until its ready to go back in?
-Could someone help me with the ratio of the decoction, Im used to ratios expressed as 1:3 not as 1.36 or 3.13. How much water and how much grist should be pulled for first and second decoction?

Sorry if these question seem dim and obvious to everyone else but ive been reading this for quite some time and it still makes not alot of sense so if someone could help me sort it out that would be great.

Thanks
 
I brewed this, its still on tap. It went over well, I would say its a great simple Vienna lager. I did a step mash but did not do the decoction. Which may, slightly impacted mouthfeel. To do it over again, I would add 4 oz melanoidin malt maybe a little more base malt, few more IBUs, all of which cater more to my tastes.

Good recipe, Thank you for sharing.
 
I would really like to try this beer out but I seem to be struggling with understanding the mash schedule. Could someone help me the following:

-How long is this mash in total?
-At what time in the mash are the decoctions pulled and added back in? I don't understand the note " step time represent how far back decoction is pulled" How far from where?
-Is the rest time the duration of the rest or the time in the mash that the rest begins?
-Do i pull the decoction and heat it to infusion temperature, and just keep it boiling until its ready to go back in?
-Could someone help me with the ratio of the decoction, Im used to ratios expressed as 1:3 not as 1.36 or 3.13. How much water and how much grist should be pulled for first and second decoction?

Sorry if these question seem dim and obvious to everyone else but ive been reading this for quite some time and it still makes not alot of sense so if someone could help me sort it out that would be great.

Thanks

I know this is an old thread, but @Yooper is a huge fan of this recipe and I'm looking to do a Vienna Lager, I have similar questions -- but I don't even SEE the decoction schedule. I assume it must be in the .rec and .xml files, which I am unable to import/use. Is the decoction schedule displayed somewhere in this thread, and I just missed it? If not, can someone post it (with explanations, since I haven't tried a decoction before)? Many thanks.
 
Back
Top