Why are there so many people on the "Beginner" forum?

?

Because homebrewing is the hip new fad?

Sorry meant to say, why are there so many people on the "Beginner" forum bitching about stupid questions?

Because like all forums, most noobs just start a thread and ask a question without searching. It get's annoying to people who have answered the same question a thousand times. I think it's usually the "do I have an infection" and "my airlock isn't going and it's been 2 whole hours, did I ruin my beer" threads.

But it's a beginner forum.

If you're annoyed then you've outgrown the "Beginner" forum.

I agree and I'm not bitching, but I can understand people being annoyed with the same questions several times a day. Some people enjoy helping people with their questions.

It's a natural progression, you go from asking stupid questions to answering stupid questions, to complaining about stupid (repetetive, no search) questions, to the final stage of acceptance that the BF will never really change and the same questions will continue to pop up daily no matter how many times they are answered. And I think a lot of folks hang out in the BF because thats the busyest forum.

All I know is that I know nothing.

ajfranke said:

All I know is that I know nothing.

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Hah!

I can understand wanting your own beginner thread to ask a question and follow up with other questions. People want a personal place to discuss their situation, just in case their situation is somehow (albeit unlikely) unique; I can also understand old pros who have been here for years getting tired of seeing the same question.

Noob vs pro, the eternal forum battle.

To all the people bit hong about answering the same beginner questions over and over And over again.

Stop answering questions and stop nothing about it. Just stay out of the beginners forum.

Not only do people post the same questions over and over in the beginner forum but people also post complaints about those questions over and over.

I think the beginner forum is a catch all for problems. Sometimes all you really want is for someone to say, yeah I've had that happen before and the beer turned out OK.

I think if the beginner forum gets a pass on the search feature being a requirement before posting. Any other forum the search feature is your friend. Also sometimes I do searches and don't really find the answer I'm looking for. Like my recent smack pack issue. I searched but did not think I found a post that was just like my situation. So I posted.

I honestly like that questions get asked over and over. When you do a search you are more likely going to find what you're looking for if the same question is phrased 100 different ways. IMHO.

brewit2it said:

It's a natural progression, you go from asking stupid questions to answering stupid questions,.......

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LOL!! wish this statement was true. However, some people keep asking the stupid questions over and over and over and over and over.

People shouldn't complain about repeated questions in the Beginner's Forum. The users are new, they may not know how to search the forum, etc. It's when they post outside the Beginner's forum that the good old "let me google that for you" response is appropriate.

People are less likely to be a jerk to you here in the beginner's section. I have no problems getting into a debate/heated discussion/crushing someones little feelings in other areas of the forum but even I try to play nice in the beginners forum while I am here.
The beginners forum is for those folks that still have their "training wheels". I would hate to upset someone to the point that they stop brewing beer because of something I posted. This is a great forum and the knowledge on HBT is nothing short of amazing. I think the idea is try to get folks to search and start them reading.

Mdessert said:

If you're annoyed then you've outgrown the "Beginner" forum.

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You'd assume that if a person doesn't want to answer you, he or she would just not post at all...sadly this is not the way the internet works.

Typically I refer the person to the search function, but also answer their question. Some people really don't know the search is there.

If people put unpolite, sarcastic and even patronising comments at new people. It could put them of returning and supporting the site in the long run!
Places like this are to help and share experiences if the person goes out their way to read a post and then comment on it negatively, i'd says its says more about the person making the reply and makes the hole forum look negative..

just my two cents!

I believe i'm almost at intermediate brewing level, however I always visit this forum, as it's always possible that some other person has asked a question that i hadn't thought of up until that point. Anymore there aren't many questions asked that i haven't seen already, but occasionally, a responder to one of the threads will give the response in a new way, that will make a certain set of knowledge click in my mind.

Not all, or even many of these threads contain new information, but i always think it's worth parsing through alot of these threads to see if there's anything that can make me a better brewer.

TheMan said:

Typically I refer the person to the search function, but also answer their question. Some people really don't know the search is there.

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This. Briefly answer the question, and politely point the user to the search function for future use.

TheMan said:

Typically I refer the person to the search function, but also answer their question. Some people really don't know the search is there.

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+1 Best solution ever. I sometimes do the search and link to several of the posts that have already answered the question extensively. If I can give a simple 'it's fine, leave it alone' answer, I will.

I think it is a bit naive to think that the more experienced brewers should stay out of the beginner's forum since they are often the resource the beginners are looking for.

I also think it is naive of the more experienced brewers to assume that everyone can employ the search function (properly) or that they even realize it's there. That's why I look at TheMan's answer as being ideal.

Also, many people have already used the search function, but it only lead them to the correct answer, not the one they wanted to hear.

Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:

Also, many people have already used the search function, but it only lead them to the correct answer, not the one they wanted to hear.

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As always, LGI, you are a fount of wisdom and truth.

I believe that in the early stages of learning anything, we have no framework with which to compare things. Thus, we may not even know what we are asking or know the significance of a particular comment. One word can totally change the meaning of a comment so when a newcomer to a hobby/sport asks a question they may not even understand others' questions/answers.

Some people may be a bit nervous about their first brew and want things to turn out and may not even understand the depth and breadth of information on these forums.

Though my first brews were twenty years ago, I have come to learn that I know very little about brewing. I really enjoy reading/learning through many of the posts all over HBT and Google a lot, too, since Google knows nothing but correct answers! LOL!

B

EDIT: In summary, noobs et al... ask away.

brewit2it said:

It's a natural progression, you go from asking stupid questions to answering stupid questions, to complaining about stupid (repetetive, no search) questions, to the final stage of acceptance that the BF will never really change and the same questions will continue to pop up daily no matter how many times they are answered. And I think a lot of folks hang out in the BF because thats the busyest forum.

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I thought that if I saw one more question in death wobble, I was going to burn my own house down, over on JF. Then, one morning i woke up, the clouds parted, some critters gathered around me, and all was peaceful. now, i just tell them they aren't going to die, and calmly link them to an extensive thread or two.

Pappers_ said:

As always, LGI, you are a fount of wisdom and truth.

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This is why the police never found where I buried the dead hookers.

birvine said:

I believe that in the early stages of learning anything, we have no framework with which to compare things. Thus, we may not even know what we are asking or know the significance of a particular comment. One word can totally change the meaning of a comment so when a newcomer to a hobby/sport asks a question they may not even understand others' questions/answers.

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Yes, this. Also, sometimes if you are too new you don't even know how to ask the question/what to search for.

As an example, I posted a "should I secondary this?" thread very early on, despite their being a bazillion threads already debating that to death. In that particular case, I had not planned to secondary, but then saw something with the fermentation -- hell, I can't even remember what it was now -- that made me think that maybe it was important to do so with this batch.

So here's the thing: I wasn't looking for the pros vs. cons of a secondary (at the time I didn't even know there was such a debate, I just assumed based on the Papazian book that a secondary was recommended but usually not very important) so I didn't search for that. I said, "Ah hah, here is something unique to my situation that maybe makes it more important to secondary. Let me ask about that!"

Without further context, I didn't even know the import of what I was asking or that it was a more general and open-ended question than I had thought.

Another example, not homebrewing, just yesterday I bought parts to make a screen frame. Before I found the display for it, I didn't even know what I needed. All I knew was I had this screen door, but the screen and some "parts" for attaching it were missing. I couldn't even really ask an employee, cuz what would I even ask about -- "Uh, my screen door, there's some stuff that ain't in it." heh... So I wandered around, not even knowing what to search for or ask about. Couldn't even Google it! Finally, I found the right parts and immediately recognized them, and now I had the phrase "screen frame" in my vocabulary. From there it was quite easy to know what to look for/which questions to ask, etc.

But sometimes, you know so little you don't even know the right question to ask!

jsweet said:

But sometimes, you know so little you don't even know the right question to ask!

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This is absolutely true. Most people can recognise from the structure of the post when this is the case. Others can be dicks about it when answering. It's the way on the interwebz.

I can still remember the basics of my first ever post on this forum, and it still haunts me today. It was the second most stupid post I ever made on this forum (The first most stupid post being all the posts I made since then)

It is incumbent on any of us that feels to be a responsible person to try and read between the lines. Some newbie posters are genuinely confused, some are genuinely stupid, and some are trolls. However, the first two of these have as much potential as anyone else to brew great beer!!

I'm obviously new here, I belonged once before but lost my username. I actually ended up here again, like most will, by googleing my question. Most questions about beer will result in this forum. There were some interesting topics with some of my key words, but no answer. So I signed up again, a simple 2 minute process, and asked my question. I was impressed with the answers , the politeness, and I got my answer. Thanks you homebrewtalk Forum for being here.
I belong to a couple of audio forums and they are about the same as this one.
Every day the same questions are asked. Everyday the same questions are answered with varying degrees of helpfulness. New members that end up there via Google who ask one question and never return. But the same helpful people answer the same questions over and over because I guess they like to help people. One forum I belong to shows how many people veiwed a thread and how many answers. It is often 100 views and 5 answers.

And it's all about loving our hobby.

B

I think that people who are upset by noobies constant questions without searching shold not be in the beginner forums at all. It's going to happen. If you don't want to answer them, then don't click on the reply button. It's easier, and it saves a bunch of frustration for everyone. Trust me, there are MANY MANY people willing to respond with a helpful answer. We have a special area just for arguing.

Homercidal said:

We have a special area just for arguing.

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Maybe the people who like to yell at n00bs in the beginner's forum just haven't figured out how to use the search feature to find that "special area"...

Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:

I can still remember the basics of my first ever post on this forum, and it still haunts me today. It was the second most stupid post I ever made on this forum (The first most stupid post being all the posts I made since then)

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Made me go and look at my first thread (not post, the search function won't go back that far, only the first 500 responses). Anywhoooo, my first thread was a clearly thought-out, insightful, and penetrating question on the use of yeast nutrient supplements.

Something along the lines of "are they good?"

I would rather see 10 new brewers ask the same questions 10 time a day and have that question answer respectfully, than see 1 new brewery driven away by rude answer from some who's just frustrated about the way this a every forum out there works in the real world.

Tw: +1

It's a paradox.

This is a *discussion* forum, but many would have you use it as a reference manual.

People come here because they want to *discuss* home brewing and have a bunch of people answer a question that they can then ask more about if need be. There are plenty of other resources if what they wanted to do was just read and find answers.

That being said, the search function is a great tool, and a lot of times I'd rather just use that instead of start a new thread about something I know has been asked already. It's just a lot of times new brewers want to become part of the community, and they do that by discussing their problems and insights.

It doesn't hurt to politely mention the search function while answering a noob's question. But I can say from experience, when I first started posting here, once in a while someone will just come along and say "There are already hundreds of threads about this," and leave.

That's more of a put-off than anything else.

Pappers_ said:

my first thread was a clearly thought-out, insightful, and penetrating question on the use of yeast nutrient supplements.

Something along the lines of "are they good?"

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Well, are they? I don't use them any more, personally.

TotemWolf said:

I would rather see 10 new brewers ask the same questions 10 time a day and have that question answer respectfully, than see 1 new brewery driven away by rude answer from some who's just frustrated about the way this a every forum out there works in the real world.

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I totally agree with this and I am constantly amazed at the amount of effort that some people put into posting that they have already answered a question in another thread. If you don't want to answer, then don't, there is no reason to make someone feel like an idiot for asking a question. Also, answers to questions change over time. The consensus opinion on a question may have changed a great deal since July of 2008, and sometimes a question needs to be asked again.

the biggest favor we can do for a noob is politely answer his question and then explain the search function and point him to good reading like how to brew. All of us have learned so much on other brewing topics by looking for a answer to a question and stumbled onto unrelated info we never new.

Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:

Well, are they? I don't use them any more, personally.

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Yeah, people told me to use them, but I generally ignored them

5,000 posts later, I'm still ignoring good advice.